Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-22-2018, 07:01 PM   #1
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
King pin weight

We're looking at upgrading our TV now and anticipate upgrading from our TT to a 5th wheel in the next year or so.

In anticipating the weight on the rear axle of the new TV, I thought I would ask...

How much has your pin weight increased after you loaded your 5W? For instance, if the empty 5W from the factory has a pin weight of 1600 pounds, what is it after your 5W is loaded up with 1500 pounds of stuff? Is there a rule of thumb?

Any thoughts and advice are appreciated.

Mike
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 07:17 PM   #2
mcmeadows1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Sierra Vista
Posts: 29
The general rule of thumb is that a loaded 5th wheel’s king pin will exert 20% of the the trailer’s gross vehicle weight. For example, if the trailer weighs a total of 10,000 lbs, the king pin will exert 2,000 lbs.

Obviously, each individual trailer will be different depending upon where cargo (weight) is loaded, in relation to the trailer’s axle(s), and where the fresh water tank is positioned, and if it is empty, full, or somewhere in between. Also, the weight of effluent in the black and grey tanks will also have an affect on the king pin weight.
mcmeadows1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 07:21 PM   #3
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
A better way to do it is look at the GVWR of the 5th wheel, about 22% of that will be pin weight. To be safe add about 1000 lbs for passengers, dogs, hitch and other stuff. Add those two numbers together along with the empty (scaled) truck weight and that number must be lower than the GVWR of the TV as stated on the "B" pillar.
__________________
2021 Surveyor Legend 19rble
2017 Laredo 325RL
Travelers Rest Resort
www.travelersrestresort.com
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 08:41 PM   #4
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
If you really want to be safe figure 25% of GVWR of the 5er.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 09:28 PM   #5
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Thanks to everyone. That gives me a rule of thumb I can use.

Mike
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 05:12 AM   #6
NotyetMHCowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Clinton, Tn
Posts: 270
We are at 27% of our actual weight. Pin weight 3660 with trailer weight around 13400. We do have golf cart batteries, generator and washer dryer all up front so that contributes to our front heavy weight.
__________________
2015 Montana High Country 305RL
Previous campers:
2008 Rockwood Ultra Lite 2603
1998 Coleman Grandview pop-up with slide

Trucks:
2006 Ford F350 CC, SB, DRW, 4x4
1992 Ford F150 SC, SB, 4x4
NotyetMHCowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 12:29 PM   #7
KOZKO
Member
 
KOZKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: McKeesport
Posts: 75
Just to be sure, the manufacturers stated pin weight is with an empty trailer?
__________________

2018 Laredo 340FL
2017 Ram 3500 4x4 6.7L Cummins Diesel (6’4” bed)
Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection
B&W Turnoverball
JT's Strong Arm Jack Stabilizers
KOZKO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 01:16 PM   #8
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOZKO View Post
Just to be sure, the manufacturers stated pin weight is with an empty trailer?
The brochure or website pin weight is for the empty trailer as it leaves the assembly line, empty propane tanks, no battery and no fluids in any tank. Depending on the model, you'll need to add the weight of the propane (usually 60 pounds for fifth wheels) and about 30 pounds for each battery. Remember that the "website weights" are for a standard build trailer, so if a second A/C is added, if upgraded furniture and/or if other options are added, they will add to the pin weight (if forward of the axles) and possibly reduce the pin weight (if aft of the axles).
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 03:24 PM   #9
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 472
My Laredo lists pin weight of 1361 lbs. The base weight empty is 7,750 lbs. This comes out to 17.6 %. The total gvwr is 10600 lbs so 17.6 % comes out to be 1861 lbs.
That said I am not going to rely on those figures. I plan on weighing the trailer with the truck and the truck separately. that's the only way to know for sure.
Our trailer is pretty new to us and that's the only reason I haven't done it yet.
fjr vfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 04:58 PM   #10
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
King pin weight

The brochure says 2695 pin weight for my Alpine 3651. Actual is 3260 or about 22% of my loaded 5er weight. I’m glad my 2016 F350 Diesel CC has a cargo capacity of 5601. FYI, I travel with 1/4 fresh water and black and grey tanks empty.
Edit, I was surprised how nice and helpful the folks at the Cat scales were.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 05:17 PM   #11
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
... I’m glad my 2016 F350 Diesel CC has a cargo capacity of 5601...

Do you know what your rear axle weighs with the 5W disconnected and the truck more or less empty? That is, how much of the total cargo capacity can the rear axle hold before it reaches its own GAWR?


We're looking at an F350 diesel CC and will of course weight it, but thought I'd ask if you know what yours weighs...


Thanks
Mike
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 05:37 AM   #12
labman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rural Minnesota
Posts: 102
I saw the ultimate tv in Tucson last winter. a F450 lariat 6.7 powerstroke and it was bulletproofed.
__________________
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. " Albert Einstein
labman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 12:20 PM   #13
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjr vfr View Post
My Laredo lists pin weight of 1361 lbs. The base weight empty is 7,750 lbs. This comes out to 17.6 %. The total gvwr is 10600 lbs so 17.6 % comes out to be 1861 lbs.
That said I am not going to rely on those figures. I plan on weighing the trailer with the truck and the truck separately. that's the only way to know for sure.
Our trailer is pretty new to us and that's the only reason I haven't done it yet.

I weighed our Laredo 265rl earlier today. Here are the results. Hitch weight came out to 1,780 lbs, trailer axle weight 7,380 lbs and trailer total 9,160 lbs.
Compare that to the listed weights above. The pin weight comes out to 19.4% of the trailer.
Some more info, trailer was loaded to about 90% of traveling weight. The fridg was empty, no food and most of our clothing not loaded. Most everything else we travel with was in the trailer. Numbers will go up some.
fjr vfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 06:04 AM   #14
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec557 View Post
Do you know what your rear axle weighs with the 5W disconnected and the truck more or less empty? That is, how much of the total cargo capacity can the rear axle hold before it reaches its own GAWR?

We're looking at an F350 diesel CC and will of course weight it, but thought I'd ask if you know what yours weighs...


Thanks
Mike


Truck GVWR 14000lbs
Rear GAWR 9650lbs
Front GAWR 5600lbs

Actual without 5er
Front 4880lbs
Rear 3800lbs
Gross total 8680lbs

With Alpine 3651RL
Front 4960lbs
Rear 6980lbs
5er axles 11580lbs
Combined gross 23520lbs
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 06:24 AM   #15
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
Truck GVWR 14000lbs
Rear GAWR 9650lbs
Front GAWR 5600lbs

Actual without 5er
Front 4880lbs
Rear 3800lbs
Gross total 8680lbs

With Alpine 3651RL
Front 4960lbs
Rear 6980lbs
5er axles 11580lbs
Combined gross 23520lbs
Tbos:

That is awesome real world information. Thanks, that answers some of my unknowns.

Mike
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 08:20 AM   #16
bscid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4
If you get an opportunity, several of the Escapee Parks have RV scales and they will go through the specific weights for your truck. Front, back, tires, trailer tires, everything. $50. GVW is a concern and takes into consideration how much you are hauling in your truck too. Pin, truck, hauling, is all a factor and not just a rated pin weight in the truck specs.
bscid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 04:04 PM   #17
johnlewis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Green Valley
Posts: 124
Look at this website: http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html
You input the information shown for the 5th wheel you are considering, and it will tell you if the vehicle you are considering will safely tow your 5th wheel. Or conversely, you can enter info on the truck, and then determine what's the max GVW of the 5th wheel can be.
There is a label on the 5th wheel that lists empty weight and max weight (GVW or GVWR).
After you buy your 5th wheel, have tires put on it that are at least one Load Range higher than the RV manufacturer uses (and what is listed on the above mentioned label). RV manufacturers are notorious for using tires that just meet the weight requirements.
As stated by others, the most commonly accepted value for pin weight is 20% of the 5th wheel weight. My experience is, using 20% as safety factor. Our pin weight has been between 16.9% and 18.2%, depending on how we load, and how much we load.
We have a lot of storage space in our 2006 Montana, so we learned quickly that filling all that storage space put us about 1,000 lbs. over GVW, so we now take what we need, and not much more.
Once you've bought your rig, load it and weigh it. You want individual axle weights, and if you can find a scale system that will give you individual tire weights, all the better. Uneven loading side-to-side can create some instability, and make towing more difficult.
W
We have traveled about 25,000 miles with our rig, without any towing or tire issues. Thanks to our TPMS, we have avoided 3 dangerous situations.
johnlewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 04:05 PM   #18
mhbell
Member
 
mhbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Ogden
Posts: 92
weighed mine at Cat Scale

I weighed mine at a Cat Scale. Factory says pin weight is 1580 Lbs Dry weight. Actual Pin weight is 2160 Lbs. Loaded 10000 Lbs Gross Trailer Weight. SO the 20% rule is close when applied to the trailer Gross weight for Pin Weight. I might add I have 4 house batteries in the front and Solar on top which adds to the pin weight. You can't go by what the sticker says. The only true way is to weigh the truck and trailer.
Mel
__________________
2016 Keystone Cougar 277RLSWE 1/2 ton series Towed with a 2011 Ford F-250 Super Cab Super Duty 6.2L Gas, Reese 16,000 Lb Sliding Hitch. my Blog Site RV Bloggers https://rvbloggers.wordpress.com/
mhbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 04:22 PM   #19
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by labman View Post
I saw the ultimate tv in Tucson last winter. a F450 lariat 6.7 powerstroke and it was bulletproofed.
Well a 6.7 doesn’t have the issues of the 6.0 and 6.4. No reason to bullet proof.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 04:29 PM   #20
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
The brochure says 2695 pin weight for my Alpine 3651. Actual is 3260 or about 22% of my loaded 5er weight. I’m glad my 2016 F350 Diesel CC has a cargo capacity of 5601. FYI, I travel with 1/4 fresh water and black and grey tanks empty.
Edit, I was surprised how nice and helpful the folks at the Cat scales were.
I NEVER count on being able to travel with black and grey empty! Spent five days at a horse show with only power and shared water. When we left nearest dump station was 20 miles the wrong direction! We towed it all home over Santiam Pass 4,800’+, always figure worst case!
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.