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Old 12-23-2018, 10:05 PM   #1
FlyingAroundRV
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Question on wrench sizes for axle service

When we get back to the US, I plan to do a bearing and brake check/service. What I'd like to know is



What size wrench I'll need to get the retainer nut off the axles and if there are any other tools I might need for this. For instance, I saw a video online that showed some kind of locking clip that holds the retainer nut. Is there a special tool for that or can I just bend/hammer the tabs?



Also, do I need to replace this retainer clip each time or are they reusable?


For bonus points: Are the bearing repacker cone tools worth the expenditure or is it better to hand-pack the bearings?


Finally: What is the best grease to get for these bearings and where do you get it?


Trailer info:
Keystone Outback 272UFL
14" rims
Max gross weight 7600#
Axle brand: unknown.
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:56 AM   #2
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Question on wrench sizes for axle service

1 1/2” socket for the retaining nut. If it has a clip, a screwdriver will pop it off, reuse. Cotter pins, replace. Seals, replace. Hand packing is best. What grease? Several choices and a search will show members preferences.
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:48 AM   #3
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You don't need a wrench a pair of pliers like this do the job.
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Old 12-24-2018, 07:11 AM   #4
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I also use pliers to remove the wheel nut and a 12" crescent wrench to install the nut and seat the bearings after packing. As for how to pack, I'm "old school hand packing" (I did capitulate and start using rubber gloves) and, for me, I use Lucas "Red and Tacky" grease. It comes either in 14 ounce tubes or in 16 ounce (1 pound) cans. https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-100...T600Q4K29X01WX
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Old 12-24-2018, 07:13 AM   #5
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To each their own - but, I like the 1 1/2" socket as opposed to the off set pliers.
That way I can employ my torque wrench to seat the bearings at the recommended 50 lbs/ft.
I know - I know - I got by for years (back when we could repack wheel bearings on cars) by snugging up the bearing and then backing off 1/4 turn. But, with the torque wrench, I know the bearing pre-load is correct. Just sayin"
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jsmith948 View Post
To each their own - but, I like the 1 1/2" socket as opposed to the off set pliers.
That way I can employ my torque wrench to seat the bearings at the recommended 50 lbs/ft.
I know - I know - I got by for years (back when we could repack wheel bearings on cars) by snugging up the bearing and then backing off 1/4 turn. But, with the torque wrench, I know the bearing pre-load is correct. Just sayin"
I'm with you on this. I service my own airplane and torqueing bolts correctly can be a life or death matter in some cases there.
I bought a torque wrench to do the wheel nuts, might as well use it on the bearings too.
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Old 12-24-2018, 01:23 PM   #7
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There is no torque spec for Dexter tapered roller bearings. Please read the service manual. The bearings are to be set loose by one notch. This is not a airplane landing gear.

If a bearing cup needs replacing make sure the new one is seated properly.

BTW my daughter worked on the A-380 Landing gear project at Goodrich then moved to Military Landing gear at Liebherr Aerospace. My son is an active pilot and owner and flies to Oshkosh every year.

Merry Christmas Everyone
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Old 12-24-2018, 01:56 PM   #8
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Sorry...but have to disagree. My Dexter book says to tighten the bearing to 50 lb/ft, while rotating the hub, then back the nut off, and then re-tighten the nut finger tight.
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:05 PM   #9
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I thought from your first post that you were going to torque the bearings to 50 ft/lbs and leave them. I'm glad you finished that.
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:57 PM   #10
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I have to jump in here and say, "Read the entire bearing adjustment procedure in the Dexter manual, not just one part of a step."

Here's what the manual says on Page 56:
For standard grease or oil axles using cotter pin:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 Ft.Lbs. (12" wrench or pliers with full hand force.)
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin.
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut.
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin.

While it's not "wrong" to use a torque wrench to seat the wheel bearings, the "alternate procedure" of using a 12" wrench "full hand tight" is not only in the manual, it's an approved alternative to a torque wrench. I'd suspect that few (if any) mechanics use a torque wrench of trailer wheel bearings and I'd further suspect that if asked, none of them would state, "The torque setting is 50 Ft Lbs." In fact, I doubt if 1 in 50 mechanics would know the actual torque value and most would say, "Just seat them and back off the nut to the first hole."

ADDED: Remember, this is the same Dexter Axle Manual that recommends greasing the axles with the EZ Lube system, so just because it's in the manual as a step doesn't necessarily mean that experienced mechanics follow the procedure.... I'd immediately fire the mechanic that used a grease gun to "lube the axle bearings" on my trailer. I know many others who feel the same.... The manual is not the "final word on actual maintenance" but is the "recommended procedure" and it doesn't require a torque wrench, but suggests a 12" wrench with full hand force.
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Old 12-24-2018, 03:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
While it's not "wrong" to use a torque wrench to seat the wheel bearings, the "alternate procedure" of using a 12" wrench "full hand tight" is not only in the manual, it's an approved alternative to a torque wrench. I'd suspect that few (if any) mechanics use a torque wrench of trailer wheel bearings and I'd further suspect that if asked, none of them would state, "The torque setting is 50 Ft Lbs." In fact, I doubt if 1 in 50 mechanics would know the actual torque value and most would say, "Just seat them and back off the nut to the first hole."

ADDED: Remember, this is the same Dexter Axle Manual that recommends greasing the axles with the EZ Lube system, so just because it's in the manual as a step doesn't necessarily mean that experienced mechanics follow the procedure.... I'd immediately fire the mechanic that used a grease gun to "lube the axle bearings" on my trailer. I know many others who feel the same.... The manual is not the "final word on actual maintenance" but is the "recommended procedure" and it doesn't require a torque wrench, but suggests a 12" wrench with full hand force.
Well, just WTH "full hand tight?"

I'm a light weight. About 5'10", 160 lbs. Full hand tight to me is probably going to be way less than someone 6'5", 270 lbs is going to apply.
I have a torque wrench. I am going to set it at 50 ft/lbs and use it to tighten my axle nuts. I know EXACTLY how much force I am applying. Works for me. YMMV.
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Old 12-24-2018, 04:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MerlinB View Post
Well, just WTH "full hand tight?"

I'm a light weight. About 5'10", 160 lbs. Full hand tight to me is probably going to be way less than someone 6'5", 270 lbs is going to apply.
I have a torque wrench. I am going to set it at 50 ft/lbs and use it to tighten my axle nuts. I know EXACTLY how much force I am applying. Works for me. YMMV.
And that is absolutely, unequivocally your prerogative. Attempting to understand (and apply reason) as to WHY as well as HOW brings one to the understanding that the torque is not applied to secure the nut, but rather to assure "adequate pressure" is applied to the wheel bearing to "seat/push" it into the race. That force is not a "hard and fast requirement based on torque" but rather is a force applied to push the bearing assembly into the cavity while turning the hub. Once the bearing assembly is "seated in the race" the tension is removed by "unscrewing the nut" and "removing the torque".

You're correct, if you weight 160, your "idea" about "full hand tight" may differ from someone who weighs 270. Maybe that's why they (Dexter) put the "50 ft lbs" comment in the instructions??? It's an approximation of the force required (and recommended) to seat the bearing. It's not a "requirement that it be that tight" rather "this is one time when close enough is good enough"...

Trust me when I say that once you've done a couple of wheels, there's no need to use a torque wrench to seat wheel bearings.... That's why I started my FIRST comment with, "While it's not "wrong" to use a torque wrench to seat the wheel bearings, the "alternate procedure" of using a 12" wrench "full hand tight" is not only in the manual, it's an approved alternative to a torque wrench" And why I started this comment with, "It is absolutely, unequivocally your prerogative"...

The point I was making (maybe you missed it) is that Dexter, in their maintenance manual that was quoted as "requiring the bearings be torqued" does not state that at all and inferring that the torque is "required" is taking the instructions out of context. There is no "50 ft lbs" of torque applied with a torque wrench requirement in the Dexter manual. YMMV and if you choose to use a torque wrench, unless you have a crow's foot adapter, find a third hand to turn the wheel because you'll need both of yours to hold the socket end of the wrench on the spindle nut while applying 50 ft lbs or torque on the other end of that "torque wrench"..... Again, YMMV

ADDED: If you do "torque per Dexter instructions" be careful not to crush the bearing cage. You'll be "right at the edge of where things get damaged" at 50 ft lbs applied with a torque wrench on the castellated nut. And, again, YMMV.
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:15 PM   #13
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That’s why I use a 1 1/2” socket, it is 3/4” drive and I use an adapter with a stubby 1/2” ratchet. Make it tight, back it off and then use my fingers to tighten.
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:31 AM   #14
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Well, if I have inadvertently offended those with a micro-calibrated elbow, allow me to apologize. Perhaps my post was a little too opaque.
The reason for "pre-loading" the wheel bearing is to ensure the cone and race are seated together properly. If a bearing is set too tight, it could run hot and fail. If it is set too loose it could suffer from shock damage.
I use a torque wrench to seat and pre-load the bearings so I can be assured that I have set all of the bearings equally. After backing off the nut and then re-tightening finger snug I also check for play - you should be able to discern a slight amount.
As a further note: If I didn't have a torque wrench, I would use an end wrench (or adjustable wrench). Not a fan of pliers because I really don't like scored and burred surfaces on the spindle nuts.
I do not consider myself an expert and it is not my goal to convert the forum community to "my way". However, I have never paid a mechanic to service the wheel bearings on any vehicle I have ever owned and I have managed to get by without (touch wood) any problems.
But, in the end, it's your vehicle and your money. So, by all means, do it your way .
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:02 AM   #15
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After reading some of these comments I find, according to them, I've been doing it wrong for almost 60 years. But I haven't had a problem with any that I've done and I've always done my own. So it can't be that wrong
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:43 AM   #16
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Wow!
There's been heated discussions on here about trucks, tires, air pressure, guns, politics & now what wrench to use/not to use!!!
If I were to guess, I say 75% of rv owners DO NOT do their own maintenance on the bearings/brakes, or anything else for that matter, & those of us that do have been doing it for years our way & not likely to change. So in my opinion if you do your own, do it how ever you always have & let the other guy do it his way, both ways work & at least you're doing the maintenance.
My know-it-all BIL has NEVER done it or had it done, "you don't pack the bearings on your truck do you?" is his comment. His 5er was 15 years old & never had the bearings packed or brakes checked when he traded it in. He also put P rated tires on it & couldn't understand why they kept blowing, but I was stupid when I told him why.... I could tell stupid rv stories on him all day!
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Wow!
There's been heated discussions on here about trucks, tires, air pressure, guns, politics & now what wrench to use/not to use!!!
If I were to guess, I say 75% of rv owners DO NOT do their own maintenance on the bearings/brakes, or anything else for that matter, & those of us that do have been doing it for years our way & not likely to change. So in my opinion if you do your own, do it how ever you always have & let the other guy do it his way, both ways work & at least you're doing the maintenance.
My know-it-all BIL has NEVER done it or had it done, "you don't pack the bearings on your truck do you?" is his comment. His 5er was 15 years old & never had the bearings packed or brakes checked when he traded it in. He also put P rated tires on it & couldn't understand why they kept blowing, but I was stupid when I told him why.... I could tell stupid rv stories on him all day!
YUP!! You should see some of the trade-ins we get.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:24 AM   #18
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Either way is probably fine. The intent is to seat the bearing after repack and install.

I rotate mine slowly while seating the bearings after packing.

And I’ve also used my torque wrench on one and then compared using my old faithful water pump pliers and tightening to seat.. checked the nut with torque wrench cause I was curious. I found I’d actually put about the same torque on the axle nut.

Key is backing off afterwards and inserting cotter pin or in my case with Dexter EZ lube the retainer clip.
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
I have to jump in here and say, "Read the entire bearing adjustment procedure in the Dexter manual, not just one part of a step."

Here's what the manual says on Page 56:
For standard grease or oil axles using cotter pin:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 Ft.Lbs. (12" wrench or pliers with full hand force.)
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin.
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut.
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin.

While it's not "wrong" to use a torque wrench to seat the wheel bearings, the "alternate procedure" of using a 12" wrench "full hand tight" is not only in the manual, it's an approved alternative to a torque wrench. I'd suspect that few (if any) mechanics use a torque wrench of trailer wheel bearings and I'd further suspect that if asked, none of them would state, "The torque setting is 50 Ft Lbs." In fact, I doubt if 1 in 50 mechanics would know the actual torque value and most would say, "Just seat them and back off the nut to the first hole."

ADDED: Remember, this is the same Dexter Axle Manual that recommends greasing the axles with the EZ Lube system, so just because it's in the manual as a step doesn't necessarily mean that experienced mechanics follow the procedure.... I'd immediately fire the mechanic that used a grease gun to "lube the axle bearings" on my trailer. I know many others who feel the same.... The manual is not the "final word on actual maintenance" but is the "recommended procedure" and it doesn't require a torque wrench, but suggests a 12" wrench with full hand force.
As a retired service tech, why would you fire someone for following PUBLISHED PROPER SERVICE PROCEDURE? Just because it doesn't agree with yours? Yes there are different ways of doing things that will accomplish the same safe results, but one can't fault anyone by following the book If a tech uses a grease gun to lube an axle hub bearing.
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Old 01-01-2019, 08:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
As a retired service tech, why would you fire someone for following PUBLISHED PROPER SERVICE PROCEDURE? Just because it doesn't agree with yours? Yes there are different ways of doing things that will accomplish the same safe results, but one can't fault anyone by following the book If a tech uses a grease gun to lube an axle hub bearing.
I'd simply answer your question by saying that I've seen far too many brake shoes impregnated with grease from failed rear seals and don't want that to happen on my trailer. I do my own maintenance, but if I were to take my trailer to a commercial repair service, I would specifically instruct the service writer to "hand pack my bearings and replace the seals" I'd further instruct him/her that I DO NOT want the EZ Lube system used on my trailer....

So, if I find that someone "uses the EZ Lube system" on my vehicle, they'd be "fired on the spot" .... Some things, whether they "are in the book" or not, I simply don't/won't do.

I'd do the same at the Ford Service Department if I took my truck in to have the radiator flushed and when I picked it up, the service writer told me that it didn't need flushing, they just added a quart of "coolant revitalizer".... When I pay someone to do a job, I expect them to do what I ask them to do, not to take shortcuts, even if "the book" says the shortcut is OK.

Hard headed? Burned by experience? or call it what you want. My money, do it my way or don't do it...... YMMV
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