Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-06-2014, 02:19 PM   #1
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
New bumper...do's & don't do's

I'm taking the 5th to Smitty's welding in Houston Monday for a new bumper. They were recommended by my infamous Holiday World RV dealer in Katy TX. I have talked to Smitty's on the phone and they sound OK. I want a heavier gauge bumper than the 0.070" one I have now. I'm thinking at least 0.125". I have removed my spare from the under body mount and have fabricated my own bumper mount spare carrier out of 0.250" plate. I used 4 grade 8 bolts 3/8" diameter with a back up plate behind the bumper to bolt through. Needless to say the mount and the 16" spare are likely pushing the limits of the factory bumper. I also want to carry a couple bicycles on a receiver hitch mount. For dry camping I think I want a receiver cargo platform to put the generator on.
Just me looking at the way the current bumper is mounted, it looks like a fairly straightforward job.
Do y'all have any: "oh my gosh don't do...." ideas? Or, something to be sure I get?
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 02:30 PM   #2
bg71361
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 164
Sounds good, post up some pictures!
bg71361 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 03:05 PM   #3
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Our hitch is welded to the bottom of the I-beam, spans the distance between I-beams with 2.5" square tubing (1/8" thick) and is supported by 1/4" plate at each end and in the middle. The upper part of the middle is bolted to the trailer cross-member and the bottom is gusseted above and below the receiver. In the last picture, The two bolts in the center plate (with the HW) is backed inside that C channel with another 1/4" plate to keep the bolts from pulling out or deforming the thinner C channel.

If you're looking to replace the bumper with a thicker square tubing, you might also consider the bumper "standoffs", as they are very thin rectangular tubing that barely supports the existing bumper. I will post another picture in the next comment showing that rectangular tubing and how the bumper attaches to it. I wouldn't trust it to support much more than just the bumper itself.

We've pulled a 3000 lb bass boat over some pretty rough roads and never had any issues. I have an aluminum cargo tray, but we've never used it on the trailer. It's pretty "bouncy" back there, so I'm not sure I want to put even my "cheap Champion" generator back there. If nothing else, it would probably "shake all the gas" out of it. LOL
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0653.jpg
Views:	366
Size:	94.4 KB
ID:	7528   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0654.jpg
Views:	329
Size:	96.7 KB
ID:	7529   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0655.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	93.7 KB
ID:	7530   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0656.jpg
Views:	321
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	7531   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0649.jpg
Views:	342
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	7532  

__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 03:08 PM   #4
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Here's the picture of that rectangular tubing and bumper. You can see it's not even welded on all sides of the tubing.

If it were me, I'd want to keep the receiver and the bumper separate, or at least don't have the bumper supporting the majority of the receiver's load.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0648.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	93.0 KB
ID:	7533  
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 03:11 PM   #5
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
A reputable welding or frame shop will know what you need for what you want. Explain what you want to do and see if their plans agree with yours. Some professionals don't like to be told how to do their jobs but will not take offense if you suggest a tweak here and there. Yes, you want it your way but see what they recommend first. It sounds to me as if three receivers, spaced across the back and welded properly to the frame will give you the flexibility to do the different things you plan to do and others down the road. JM2¢, Hank ...... Like John said .... Don't trust any part of the factory bumper!!!!
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 03:53 PM   #6
bsmith0404
Senior Member
 
bsmith0404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
It sounds like just about everything you are doing is associated with a receiver hitch. As already stated, I would weld the hitch to the frame with a cross tube (similar to the receiver on your truck) and keep it separate from the bumper. A good shop will take care of you. When it's all said and done, I would try to get them to provide you with some weight specs for the hitch, tow and tongue weight capabilities. Even better if you can get that in writing, but I doubt they will provide that.
__________________

Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
bsmith0404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:16 PM   #7
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Yep John that 2" x 2" square tubing that is welded to the frame and then the bumper extensions are welded to, is pretty cheesey. I'm thinking just wash them off and start from there.
The frame mounted receiver that comes out under the bumper was my first thought. But I can't go any lower than the current bumper. I have only 1-2 inches of clearance getting in and out of my boat ramp driveway.
I'm thinking either put the receiver on top of the bumper, or burn a hole in the bumper and weld one in there.
I've dealt with turbo machinery repair shops for the duration of my career. I try not to talk anyone into something they have no ownership of. But I don't deal with stupid very well either.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:24 PM   #8
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Old gearhead hard at work supervising the repair of a 14,000 RPM natural gas compressor from a Gulf of Mexico deepwater platform. The week before Thanksgiving.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00575.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	92.5 KB
ID:	7534  
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:30 PM   #9
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
If there is room, you could cut off the existing bumper and stand-offs, position the new receiver so the bottom of it is where the bottom of the old bumper was and then install the new bumper above that. Since it's all going to be new, you can pretty much position it where you want. Take a good look at how far down your Filon rear panel goes, if it's like the Cougars, your bumper is pretty much below that level. Raising it enough to include a receiver may actually offer more protection to the frame and the filon than the existing position does.

I agree, the easiest way to have a welder disown a problem is to tell him exactly how to do the job and then complain when it burps on you.

I think you're on the right track, now just fine tuning it so you can describe what you want and then let the welder figure it out.

Oh yes, just for grins..... Where are your safety shoes ??????
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:32 PM   #10
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Hank, 3 receivers does sound interesting....that stays in the possible workscope.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:39 PM   #11
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Yes John, I want to come out and then up. I may be limited on height by my electrical power plug though.
I'll take some before and after pics.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:42 PM   #12
Festus2
Site Team
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 7,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post

Oh yes, just for grins..... Where are your safety shoes ??????
Probably in the same place where he keeps his hard hat.
__________________
2008 Cougar 5th Wheel 27RKS
2005 2500 GMC Duramax
Festus2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:48 PM   #13
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Y'all are close! But those are Wolverine safety shoes. They fit in a carry on bag better than boots!
However, my safety glasses are hanging on my shirt! Don't tell the boss.
Fortunately most vendor repair shops don't require a hard hat. 35 years of wearing one in the plant was more than enough.
But there are 2 of them in my garage. One is the most valued "vintage" one with some ancient stickers on it. It's kinda a redneck proof of "saltiness". Show up on a job with a brand new clean hard hat and you'll get the looks.
This conversation took a strange twist. LOL
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 04:55 PM   #14
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
If you're considering carrying a ladder with you, the folding 6' step ladders (7' is also available) will "almost fit" in a 4x4 rear bumper. If you can figure a way to increase the vertical size just a "tad", the new bumper would be a perfect place to store a ladder like this: http://www.amazon.com/GP-Logistics-S...=SLD-S6+ladder



It'll also help with that "rear loading" you're looking for to lighten the pin weight LOL
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 05:09 PM   #15
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Haha. Smitty's told me I wouldn't be able to carry my dump hose in the new bumper because the I.D. would be too small. That IS a cool ladder though.
I was thinking about that weight discussion and about weighing before the new bumper is installed. Just wondering if it will help! Maybe I could go to .500" wall on the new bumper? Put a 800# bumper on it!
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 05:30 PM   #16
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
You could put an 800 lb bumper on it, but I'm thinking with the other stuff you want to add, you're going to have to wait till the next upgrade on Ford's 6.7 so you can get a truck strong enough to pull it if you keep "adding stuff" LOL

Part of the "allure" of the Montana High Country line is the "helium technology" that (they say) removes 1300-2500 pounds from the overall weight. I don't think the concept was for Keystone to remove it so you could add it back, especially in an "armor plate bumper" Pretty soon it'll be like you're riding one of these:
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 06:15 PM   #17
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
But the DW usually packs 28 pairs of shoes for a 2 week trip! I need to counter balance!
The weld shop told me what the thickness was the first time I talked to them about 2 weeks ago. I really don't remember though. I'm thinking a bit under .250".
I've got 400# of spare payload. This is mostly theoretical conversation. If we do the washer/dryer, that will soak up 150# though.
So I do need to keep an eye on my weights.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 06:32 PM   #18
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Yup, you're getting close to that "cigar" there...... Between the washer/dryer, the FW tank, you'll be "at max capacity". Don't forget that if you dry camp and don't have a place to empty nearby, you'll also be dragging all that water forward of the axles (along with some solid waste as well). That extra could make for an "interesting tow home", depending on how rough the roads are.....

Also consider that as "cheap" as Keystone is, if they took out 1300-2500 lbs of trailer weight, you can bet they also lightened the frame/suspension to compensate...... Don't ya just gotta love 'em for all the "help" they give us ?????
.
28 pairs of shoes for 2 weeks???? No wonder you made the comment that the washer/dryer would go on "your side" of the closet..... as will the "rest of her shoes" LOL
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 07:04 PM   #19
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
I told her we only have about 30 gallons of grey and black tanks. You better take a Navy shower again baby.
Most big racetracks have a honey wagon to empty tanks, for a price. I haven't used one yet though.
I sometimes wonder who, if anyone builds a quality RV, and at what price.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2014, 07:07 PM   #20
Ayotte
Senior Member
 
Ayotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Moose Jaw,Saskatchewan
Posts: 154
Remember that if you have any tanks, fresh or gray and black at the back of the camper you do not want the hitch welded to the frame at some point in time you might have to get at the tank and if not you the next owner. My welding shop welded four pieces down from the frame and then built the hitch to fit in between them and bolted with four bolts through each of the four plates. Very strongly built!!!!
Ayotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.