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Old 11-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #1
dwayne564
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New truck, Need new fifth wheel Hitch

Hello,

I just got a new 2019 Ram 2500, and my old fifth wheel won't fit the new fifth wheel prep package on the 2500. anyone have any suggestions on a new fifth wheel Hitch, I know Mopar makes one for it, I didn't know if there were any other compatible with the prep package.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:18 PM   #2
travelin texans
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Fairly certain B&W makes on for all the big 3 trucks & in my opinion you won't/can't find a better hitch.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:44 PM   #3
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You could do this. If you have a traditional hitch.
https://www.amazon.com/Reese-30154-F...14203175&psc=1
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:48 PM   #4
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I'm using the PullRite Superlite single point #2600. I drop a gooseneck ball in the factory prep and set the hitch on it. Very similar to an Andersen hitch except it's steel. Pullrite.com
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I'm using the PullRite Superlite single point #2600. I drop a gooseneck ball in the factory prep and set the hitch on it. Very similar to an Andersen hitch except it's steel. Pullrite.com
Brent,

Have you done any research on the requirement for chains with that system? In Michigan, if I'm reading the towing requirements properly, if there is a "ball hitch" (gooseneck or bumper connection) the trailer must be secured to the tow vehicle with safety chains. I don't see much enforcement (well, I haven't seen any enforcement) of the requirement, but then I'm not specifically looking either. I do know that in Traverse City last summer, a camper towing a fifth wheel with a gooseneck hitch pulled out of the state park campground, was involved in an accident (he pulled out in front of a car that didn't (couldn't??) stop) He was cited for causing the accident and was also cited for not having safety chains.

Just wondering if you've done any research in that area ???
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:13 PM   #6
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I dont have a MOPAR but I have a B&W turnover ball 5th wheel hitch in my 15 F250 and towed over 35,000 miles with it and never a single problem. Very solid
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:15 PM   #7
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Brent,

Have you done any research on the requirement for chains with that system? In Michigan, if I'm reading the towing requirements properly, if there is a "ball hitch" (gooseneck or bumper connection) the trailer must be secured to the tow vehicle with safety chains. I don't see much enforcement (well, I haven't seen any enforcement) of the requirement, but then I'm not specifically looking either. I do know that in Traverse City last summer, a camper towing a fifth wheel with a gooseneck hitch pulled out of the state park campground, was involved in an accident (he pulled out in front of a car that didn't (couldn't??) stop) He was cited for causing the accident and was also cited for not having safety chains.

Just wondering if you've done any research in that area ???
I use the Andersen ultimate steel version and I cannot find in the Michigan MCL where what you cite is listed. I actually found a case from the early 2000's that says the other way. Can you provide the MCL language about the ball hitch requiring chains?

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While the language of Section 257.721(3) could technically be extended to fifth wheel or gooseneck semi trailers, the FMCSR, as adopted into state law, exempts these vehicles from safety chains. To prevent interference with interstate commerce, it is the policy of the Motor Carrier Division to not apply Section 257.721(3) to vehicles that use fifth wheel or gooseneck connecting devices.
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:16 PM   #8
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I have the Andersen hitch so same issue with the safety chains. I didn't even worry about researching...I just put them on. It's easy to do and solves the issue.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I'm using the PullRite Superlite single point #2600. I drop a gooseneck ball in the factory prep and set the hitch on it. Very similar to an Andersen hitch except it's steel. Pullrite.com
I have an Andersen Ultimate hitch on my truck and in Texas, we are supposed to use safety chains. I have chain loops on my set up and bought the safety chains from Andersen and hook those when traveling. I think it is a Texas law so am not sure about other states.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by tech740 View Post
I use the Andersen ultimate steel version and I cannot find in the Michigan MCL where what you cite is listed. I actually found a case from the early 2000's that says the other way. Can you provide the MCL language about the ball hitch requiring chains?
...
While the language of Section 257.721(3) could technically be extended to fifth wheel or gooseneck semi trailers, the FMCSR, as adopted into state law, exempts these vehicles from safety chains. To prevent interference with interstate commerce, it is the policy of the Motor Carrier Division to not apply Section 257.721(3) to vehicles that use fifth wheel or gooseneck connecting devices.
Please keep in mind that I am not a "legal expert" and this is "my opinion" based on the way I interpret the Michigan code. It may (or may not) be the "legislative intention" as the code was written or amended....

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x3h...me=mcl-257-721

Paragraph 257.721(3) is referencing "trailers using conventional hitches, pintle hitches and bumper attached hitches".

Paragraph 257.721(4) references "conventional fifth wheel hitches".

Paragraph 257.721(5)(a,b,c) establish legality for towing a second trailer <double towing/triple towing> behind a fifth wheel.

The definition of "fifth wheel" is established in Paragraph 257.721(3) and the last half of the last sentence in that paragraph states, "the safety chains or devices required under this subsection shall conform to the federal motor carrier safety regulations requirements contained in 49 CFR 393.70(d)(5)."

You can read the requirements for fifth wheel hitches and for "other forms of hitches" in 49CFR 393.70. In that reference, sub-paragraph (b)(3) provides specific instructions related to the "king pin". The next paragraph then establishes requirements for "full trailers". In that sub-paragraph (d) 1-8, safety chain requirements are addressed.

You can find 49CFR 393.70 here: https://www.customsmobile.com/regula..._section393.70

As I said, this is "my take" on the "scrambled egg mix" called the Michigan code. I'm no expert and can't say that I'm correct or that I'm not correct, just what I think the rules mandate. I have no "skin in the game" (so to speak) as I tow with a conventional fifth wheel hitch, not a "gooseneck or adapter style hitch" so I've not spent any extensive time researching what doesn't apply to my towing equipment.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Please keep in mind that I am not a "legal expert" and this is "my opinion" based on the way I interpret the Michigan code. It may (or may not) be the "legislative intention" as the code was written or amended....

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x3h...me=mcl-257-721

Paragraph 257.721(3) is referencing "trailers using conventional hitches, pintle hitches and bumper attached hitches".

Paragraph 257.721(4) references "conventional fifth wheel hitches".

Paragraph 257.721(5)(a,b,c) establish legality for towing a second trailer <double towing/triple towing> behind a fifth wheel.

The definition of "fifth wheel" is established in Paragraph 257.721(3) and the last half of the last sentence in that paragraph states, "the safety chains or devices required under this subsection shall conform to the federal motor carrier safety regulations requirements contained in 49 CFR 393.70(d)(5)."

You can read the requirements for fifth wheel hitches and for "other forms of hitches" in 49CFR 393.70. In that reference, sub-paragraph (b)(3) provides specific instructions related to the "king pin". The next paragraph then establishes requirements for "full trailers". In that sub-paragraph (d) 1-8, safety chain requirements are addressed.

You can find 49CFR 393.70 here: https://www.customsmobile.com/regula..._section393.70

As I said, this is "my take" on the "scrambled egg mix" called the Michigan code. I'm no expert and can't say that I'm correct or that I'm not correct, just what I think the rules mandate. I have no "skin in the game" (so to speak) as I tow with a conventional fifth wheel hitch, not a "gooseneck or adapter style hitch" so I've not spent any extensive time researching what doesn't apply to my towing equipment.
I have read those, a couple times actually, the parts that get me is a full trailer requires chains. A full trailer is a gravity box trailer for a lack of better references. It supports all its weight. It also says that any trailer that has tongue weight, defined as semi trailer does not require chains. I have always been told that if it connects with a pin like a standard fifth wheel hitch no chains. If it is on a ball then it requires chains. I just cannot find any supporting documentation.

Not meant as an argument just wish I could find something that agrees one way or the other. The federal https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...se49.5.393_170
if you scroll down a bit it shows pics that incorporate all the definitions. It shows a travel trailer as a semi trailer because it applies weight to the tow vehicle.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:59 PM   #12
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I have read those, a couple times actually, the parts that get me is a full trailer requires chains. A full trailer is a gravity box trailer for a lack of better references. It supports all its weight. It also says that any trailer that has tongue weight, defined as semi trailer does not require chains. I have always been told that if it connects with a pin like a standard fifth wheel hitch no chains. If it is on a ball then it requires chains. I just cannot find any supporting documentation.

Not meant as an argument just wish I could find something that agrees one way or the other. The federal https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...se49.5.393_170
if you scroll down a bit it shows pics that incorporate all the definitions. It shows a travel trailer as a semi trailer because it applies weight to the tow vehicle.
I don't have an answer that I'd call "definitive or expert". Possibly you could contact the Michigan State Police "contact us" using their email web form and get the "MSP official answer".... https://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,...8075--,00.html

ADDED: I've always understood the same as you: If it has a ball and a "pawl that locks under the ball" then it requires safety chains, without regard to whether the ball is in the bed, on the rear bumper or on a bar inserted into a receiver. So, IMHO (for what that's worth) if it's being towed with a gooseneck hitch or a fifth wheel hitch that connects to a gooseneck ball, then safety chains are required...

But, who am I except a casual observer... I definitely don't consider myself an expert in towing laws !!!!!
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:37 PM   #13
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I don't have an answer that I'd call "definitive or expert". Possibly you could contact the Michigan State Police "contact us" using their email web form and get the "MSP official answer".... https://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,...8075--,00.html

ADDED: I've always understood the same as you: If it has a ball and a "pawl that locks under the ball" then it requires safety chains, without regard to whether the ball is in the bed, on the rear bumper or on a bar inserted into a receiver. So, IMHO (for what that's worth) if it's being towed with a gooseneck hitch or a fifth wheel hitch that connects to a gooseneck ball, then safety chains are required...

But, who am I except a casual observer... I definitely don't consider myself an expert in towing laws !!!!!
I put myself in the same category(not an expert). As I said I wasn't trying to be argumentative just wondering if you had more insight based on the info.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:03 AM   #14
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I certainly didn't consider anything you said as argumentative. Just the opposite. If you do get any "clear guidance" from anyone who is an expert, please share. I'll do the same.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:51 AM   #15
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I think the lack of clarity regarding tow chains relative to a gooseneck and the variance in states plus the LEO who stops you likely doesn't have a clear understanding makes it prudent to use safety chains. Many gooseneck truck bed solutions have spring loaded loops for connecting safety chains so in the unlikely event a LEO were to look in my bed, he would see safety chains as well as the kill switch connected to my Andersen Ultimate STEEL assembly.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:36 AM   #16
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I think the lack of clarity regarding tow chains relative to a gooseneck and the variance in states plus the LEO who stops you likely doesn't have a clear understanding makes it prudent to use safety chains. Many gooseneck truck bed solutions have spring loaded loops for connecting safety chains so in the unlikely event a LEO were to look in my bed, he would see safety chains as well as the kill switch connected to my Andersen Ultimate STEEL assembly.
That's my thought as well. Especially when travelling between states, it's difficult to keep up with the changing laws and regulations along the route. Reciprocity only extends to licensure, not to equipment requirements, so as soon as you cross the state line, you've got to comply with their "equipment requirements".

Case in point, Michigan double tow maximum length is 75'. As soon as I cross into Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin or Indiana, the maximum length is 65'. My rig length is about 72', so I'm longer than the maximum "every direction I go"... While I've towed in all of them and never had a problem, that may change on the next trip.

I know people who double tow into Florida every fall and double tow out of Florida every spring. I haven't heard of anything but the occasional "local deputy stopped me and told me not to come through his town again with two trailers" type of comments.

I'm reluctant to double tow into Florida, mainly because there's no way to get through Alabama or Georgia, both restrict double trailers. So, we divert west in Tennessee and there's enough to explore that we've never missed towing through the extreme southeast.... Maybe one day...

Anyway, if I had a gooseneck or fifth wheel hitch connected to a gooseneck, I'd just install the two chain loops and always tow with safety chains connected. Better safe (physically and legally) than sorry....
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:40 AM   #17
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Anyway, if I had a gooseneck or fifth wheel hitch connected to a gooseneck, I'd just install the two chain loops and always tow with safety chains connected. Better safe (physically and legally) than sorry....
Totally agree. It just isn't that hard. I, for one, don't mind the extra step and it's just one less thing to worry about.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:42 PM   #18
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Talk to etrailer or get to a trailer hitch place to discuss you issues.


I don't know what the issue is about chains in michigan and how it relates to your 5th wheel.
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