3/4 ton versus 1 ton

[Povo]

I know this subject has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think the following information is pretty interesting.

We recently purchased a 2014 327 RES. I had done my research prior to the purchase and concluded my 2008 Dodge 2500 Heavy Duty 4x4 Hemi short bed (PullRight SuperGlide hitch and air bags) would handle it. (I love this truck.) But it kept gnawing at me. We only took it out once for a short trip before having to winterize it and put it in storage but it seemed to handle fine.

Today I had my oil changed and discussed it with my mechanic of 15 years whose opinion I totally respect. His first answer was pretty emphatic that I didn't have enough truck. He admitted he tends to the conservative side, but was pretty clear that that he thought a one ton dully or at least a one ton would be safer. He said it wasn't the towing capability, but brakes, frame, axles, that make the difference. It wasn't can I get down the road, but am I endangering myself or others on the road. Can I stop for one thing. Without my even asking he ran a spec sheet on both the 2008 3/4 and one ton for a side by side comparison. When I came to pick up my pickup (sorry for the pun), he said what he found was a surprise to him. Line by line they were the same truck. Same frame, same brakes, same tranny, same, same, same. The only difference, the ONLY difference, was the rear axle rating of 6500 for the one ton and 6200 for the 3/4 ton. This was the Dodge spec sheet. Not what someone thinks they know. So I asked him how this information relates to our conversation a few hours before and he said I basically had a one ton truck. Trading up to a one one ton wouldn't give me anything I didn't already have - minus 300lbs of payload capacity.

Will move to a maybe a one ton dully in a few years when we retire and do more traveling? Probably. For the next few years when we are making shorter trips (with a few exceptions) do I feel my truck can be safe (the main thing) as long as I keep my conservative nature regarding weight limitations and respecting speeds, stopping distances, road conditions, etc. - I think I'm good.

I'm guessing there may be a few opinions about this. More is better, etc. I agree. Could I have a bigger rig. Yes. But am I okay for the time being. I think so.

[JRTJH]

You found out what many here have been saying since I joined the forum. There's very little difference in a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton SRW truck.

You state that for the time being, "I feel my truck can be safe (the main thing) as long as I keep my conservative nature regarding weight limitations and respecting speeds, stopping distances, road conditions, etc. - I think I'm good."

I agree with you, and would urge that when you do get your next vehicle, regardless of whether it's a SRW 1 ton, a Dually or even a larger vehicle, that "conservative nature" will continue to serve you well.

Happy towing !!!

[therink]

There isn't a wholelot of difference between 3/4 and 1 ton srw however I have owned both towing the same 12000 fiver I have now. The one ton handles the trailer hands down better than my 3/4 ton did. Both being late model Chevy. I was about 400 lbs over gvwr with the 3/4 and now have about 400 lbs to spare. I feel good that I am towing well within the ratings of the yellow sticker in the door jamb, rather than pushing the limits.

[SAD]

You have learned an important lesson... Modern Dodges (2003 and up).... The ONLY difference between a 2500 and 3500 SRW is an overload spring on the rear axle sprung pack...

That's it... Nothing else (well except for the decals)...

Originally Posted by Povo

I know this subject has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think the following information is pretty interesting.

We recently purchased a 2014 327 RES. I had done my research prior to the purchase and concluded my 2008 Dodge 2500 Heavy Duty 4x4 Hemi short bed (PullRight SuperGlide hitch and air bags) would handle it. (I love this truck.) But it kept gnawing at me. We only took it out once for a short trip before having to winterize it and put it in storage but it seemed to handle fine.

Today I had my oil changed and discussed it with my mechanic of 15 years whose opinion I totally respect. His first answer was pretty emphatic that I didn't have enough truck. He admitted he tends to the conservative side, but was pretty clear that that he thought a one ton dully or at least a one ton would be safer. He said it wasn't the towing capability, but brakes, frame, axles, that make the difference. It wasn't can I get down the road, but am I endangering myself or others on the road. Can I stop for one thing. Without my even asking he ran a spec sheet on both the 2008 3/4 and one ton for a side by side comparison. When I came to pick up my pickup (sorry for the pun), he said what he found was a surprise to him. Line by line they were the same truck. Same frame, same brakes, same tranny, same, same, same. The only difference, the ONLY difference, was the rear axle rating of 6500 for the one ton and 6200 for the 3/4 ton. This was the Dodge spec sheet. Not what someone thinks they know. So I asked him how this information relates to our conversation a few hours before and he said I basically had a one ton truck. Trading up to a one one ton wouldn't give me anything I didn't already have - minus 300lbs of payload capacity.

Will move to a maybe a one ton dully in a few years when we retire and do more traveling? Probably. For the next few years when we are making shorter trips (with a few exceptions) do I feel my truck can be safe (the main thing) as long as I keep my conservative nature regarding weight limitations and respecting speeds, stopping distances, road conditions, etc. - I think I'm good.

I'm guessing there may be a few opinions about this. More is better, etc. I agree. Could I have a bigger rig. Yes. But am I okay for the time being. I think so.

[Ken / Claudia]

Ford as been same as what you state that Dodge does. I checked the spes. several times. I did also find some 3/4 had 8 plys but all 1 tons have 10ply tires. So, anyone having a 3/4 ton could have a 1 ton by adding a spring and maybe heaver duty tires. Most I have know just get air bags for the rear.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by SAD

You have learned an important lesson... Modern Dodges (2003 and up).... The ONLY difference between a 2500 and 3500 SRW is an overload spring on the rear axle sprung pack...

That's it... Nothing else (well except for the decals)...

SAD: you are correct until you get to 2013MY trucks for Ram. This is where they went and changed everything. For MY2013 only; the frames are different between the 3500 and 2500 trucks. The 3500 has the redesigned higher load capacity frame and different automatic transmission options along with a different rear axle carrier if the 385HP/850LB-Ft trucks are ordered you get the 11.8/300MM differential VS the 11.5 size for the lower HP trucks. The rear and front suspension components where redesigned between the two models also.
In 2014MY this even gets more confusing when the Air Suspension option is offered not air bag support but a real Air suspension system and both models of trucks will have the higher capacity redesigned frame. But there will be no AISIN automatic transmission availability on the 2500 model truck. It is going to get real interesting in the future with Ram Trucks.
Jim W.

[jodrey]

The difference between a 2500 and a 3500 is not for the registrated plate in differente states or provinces.

Here in Quebec if you have a 3500 with a 10000 gvw, you need annual inspection
but no inspect under 10000. The plate are cheaper on a 10000 gvw or less.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Jim W

SAD: you are correct until you get to 2013MY trucks for Ram. This is where they went and changed everything. For MY2013 only; the frames are different between the 3500 and 2500 trucks. The 3500 has the redesigned higher load capacity frame and different automatic transmission options along with a different rear axle carrier if the 385HP/850LB-Ft trucks are ordered you get the 11.8/300MM differential VS the 11.5 size for the lower HP trucks. The rear and front suspension components where redesigned between the two models also.
In 2014MY this even gets more confusing when the Air Suspension option is offered not air bag support but a real Air suspension system and both models of trucks will have the higher capacity redesigned frame. But there will be no AISIN automatic transmission availability on the 2500 model truck. It is going to get real interesting in the future with Ram Trucks.
Jim W.

Good to know. I have purposely stayed away from looking at/studying the 2013+ models....

They are too sexy.... And my old-maid, 2007 model has been paid for since 2009.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by SAD

Good to know. I have purposely stayed away from looking at/studying the 2013+ models....

They are too sexy.... And my old-maid, 2007 model has been paid for since 2009.

We were at the CMEP rally held last year at Columbus IN by Cummins and Ram. This was sponsored by Turbo Diesel Register and I was able to test drive a 3500 Long Horn Crew Cab DRW truck. The CFO set in the back seat and said boy is this truck nice and also quiet over our 08 Mega Cab we have. The Ram representative turn to her and said that there where incentives if we wanted to buy one now. She looks at me and said do not get any ideas we are keeping the 08 that is it. Oh well can’t help but to dream. But I also want the 100,000 mile badge too for the truck.

Jim W.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Jim W

...Oh well can’t help but to dream. But I also want the 100,000 mile badge too for the truck.

Jim W.

My 07 only has about 50K miles on it!!

[theeyres]

Yep found out that was true with my Chevy also. You can carry more in the 1 ton because of the overloads. That's the only difference. Of course, that is a BIG difference if you are pulling a big fiver that has a much higher pin weight.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Povo

I know this subject has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think the following information is pretty interesting.

We recently purchased a 2014 327 RES. I had done my research prior to the purchase and concluded my 2008 Dodge 2500 Heavy Duty 4x4 Hemi short bed (PullRight SuperGlide hitch and air bags) would handle it. (I love this truck.) But it kept gnawing at me. We only took it out once for a short trip before having to winterize it and put it in storage but it seemed to handle fine.

Today I had my oil changed and discussed it with my mechanic of 15 years whose opinion I totally respect. His first answer was pretty emphatic that I didn't have enough truck. He admitted he tends to the conservative side, but was pretty clear that that he thought a one ton dully or at least a one ton would be safer. He said it wasn't the towing capability, but brakes, frame, axles, that make the difference. It wasn't can I get down the road, but am I endangering myself or others on the road. Can I stop for one thing. Without my even asking he ran a spec sheet on both the 2008 3/4 and one ton for a side by side comparison. When I came to pick up my pickup (sorry for the pun), he said what he found was a surprise to him. Line by line they were the same truck. Same frame, same brakes, same tranny, same, same, same. The only difference, the ONLY difference, was the rear axle rating of 6500 for the one ton and 6200 for the 3/4 ton. This was the Dodge spec sheet. Not what someone thinks they know. So I asked him how this information relates to our conversation a few hours before and he said I basically had a one ton truck. Trading up to a one one ton wouldn't give me anything I didn't already have - minus 300lbs of payload capacity.

Will move to a maybe a one ton dully in a few years when we retire and do more traveling? Probably. For the next few years when we are making shorter trips (with a few exceptions) do I feel my truck can be safe (the main thing) as long as I keep my conservative nature regarding weight limitations and respecting speeds, stopping distances, road conditions, etc. - I think I'm good.

I'm guessing there may be a few opinions about this. More is better, etc. I agree. Could I have a bigger rig. Yes. But am I okay for the time being. I think so.

Originally Posted by SAD

You have learned an important lesson... Modern Dodges (2003 and up).... The ONLY difference between a 2500 and 3500 SRW is an overload spring on the rear axle sprung pack...

That's it... Nothing else (well except for the decals)...

Well the earlier Rams (2nd Gen) the 1 ton 3500 only came as a dually, but the 2500 Camper package had the one ton springs. Even with 2,000# of pin, I still don't get to the overloads!!

[jonbiker]

This past summer we towed our Cougar a total of 7,500 miles out west. The heat was brutal and the 13,500 a/c was marginal. We ordered a Montana HC 318RE for the increased insulation and two a/c units. So we went from 10,000# with 1,450 pin weight to 12,000# (hope not to fill it to that max weight) and 1,950 pin weight. Truck payload capacity sticker says 2,070#. After lengthy discussions with the Dealer service rep and a local truck customizer, I decided to add Super Springs to get me 1/2 way to a 3500 (without replacing OEM springs with 3500 springs) I am optimistic that this will give me the extra 500# payload capacity I need. Now if I can only find a way to get the 11.8 calculated mpg with the new trailer. May need to drive downhill both ways on the next trip.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by jonbiker

After lengthy discussions with the Dealer service rep and a local truck customizer, I decided to add Super Springs to get me 1/2 way to a 3500 (without replacing OEM springs with 3500 springs) I am optimistic that this will give me the extra 500# payload capacity I need. :

jonbiker -
How can a truck's payload capacity be increased by the addition of Super Springs, helper springs or airbags?
If a truck's payload capacity is determined by subtracting its curb weight from the GVWR, how can the result be changed by adding springs?

The GVWR is a fixed quantity, as shown by the sticker and the curb weight, while subject to some variables such as weights of passengers, is also pretty much fixed. If, for example, the GVWR of Truck A is 10000 lbs and its curb weight, according to a weigh scale, is 6000 lbs., its payload capacity is 4000 lbs. I don't believe you can change this - it is what it is. The only way of increasing its payload that I can see is to reduce the weight of the truck.

By the addition of extra weight - the Super Springs - you may be actually decreasing the truck's payload since you are increasing the weight of truck. (This would not be the case if you are replacing one set of springs with another).

Springs, airbags and other helpers will help level out the truck with the TT or 5ver and may affect its "ride" but won't do much, if anything at all, to increase its payload/capacity.

[Mark TC]

Here is a link to the Ford spec sheet on there Super duty trucks. I got the 2013. 350 Lariat. 6.2 engine and 3.73 rear end
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...superdtypu.pdf

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by jonbiker

This past summer we towed our Cougar a total of 7,500 miles out west. The heat was brutal and the 13,500 a/c was marginal. We ordered a Montana HC 318RE for the increased insulation and two a/c units. So we went from 10,000# with 1,450 pin weight to 12,000# (hope not to fill it to that max weight) and 1,950 pin weight. Truck payload capacity sticker says 2,070#. After lengthy discussions with the Dealer service rep and a local truck customizer, I decided to add Super Springs to get me 1/2 way to a 3500 (without replacing OEM springs with 3500 springs) I am optimistic that this will give me the extra 500# payload capacity I need. Now if I can only find a way to get the 11.8 calculated mpg with the new trailer. May need to drive downhill both ways on the next trip.

jonbiker; Is the sales code on your truck listed as DJ7P92; this is a 2500Ram Crew Cab Laramie 6.7L Cummins, 4X4, 3:73, 6 speed auto. If this is correct you weights are 9,600 lbs GCWR payload 2,150 lbs a base weight of 7,455 lbs, allowable maximum weights are 20,000 lbs for the GCWR, GAWR front is 5,500 lbs and the rear is 6,010 with a maximum trailer tow weight of 12,400 lbs. This is calculated by subtracting the GCWR –Curb weight- driver = maximum trailer weight. This would be 20,000-(7,455+150)=12,400. So in your case this would be 20,000-7,455-(passenger +driver + hitch weight and miss items in truck) =maximum trailer weight that you can tow. According to Ram Body Builder Guide you cannot exceed the GVWR and GAWR’s. The truck is certified by the manufacture for these weights and only the manufacture can recertified them or an aftermarket up-fitter, Federal motor vehicle act.

As stated above you cannot change your GCWR by adding helper springs and or air bags these only level the truck so it will sit level.

You need to have the truck scaled to find the total base weight which includes a fully loaded truck with the hitch and all passengers in the truck. You than can subtract this load form the 20,000 lbs GCWR to see what trailer weight you can tow.

Jim W.

[cabinfever]

If you do make the proper changes to any truck to increase the load rating, I would believe it would need certified and then retitled to reflect the new certified capacity.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by cabinfever

If you do make the proper changes to any truck to increase the load rating, I would believe it would need certified and then retitled to reflect the new certified capacity.

I am also wondering if the change or addition of a different type of spring and its affect on the truck's suspension, would have any negative impact on the warranty?

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Festus2

I am also wondering if the change or addition of a different type of spring and its affect on the truck's suspension, would have any negative impact on the warranty?

Perhaps on a rear suspension warranty - i.e. spring, spring hanger, sway bar (if any)... etc...

They cannot void the warranty on the entire vehicle. Or even a component unaffected by the modification. The Magnuson-Moss warranty act protects the consumer from the manufacturer for this purpose...

Say you put new rear springs on your truck - then go in for a cracked rear spring - they can say "uh, those aren't our springs"

Say you put new rear springs on your truck - then go in for a rear pinion seal leak - they can say "uh, those rear springs are not factory and they don't position the axle in the exact same spot - the pinion angle it out of tolerance"

Say you put airbags on - then go in for factory rear spring sag - they ~might~ say "uh you overloaded the spring... we think this is why you added airbags"

Say you did anything with the rear axle like described above - THEN go in for an A/C, electrical, transmission, head gasket, cooling, blinker fluid problem..... they CANNOT deny your claim for unrelated items.

Their are no doubt gray areas here - where the parts might be closely related (say you put giant tires on your truck and you're complaining about tranny slip)... This is why it's advantageous to have a good, honest relationship between you and the service guy where there is mutual trust.

[JRTJH]

SAD,

Your post reminds me of a situation that points to one of Ford's, "They didn't really do that, did they" moments when in the mid 80's they were denying warranty claims on steering/front axle related problems on trucks with 3" lift kits, yet they were installing 3" lift kits in their F150 line and calling it the "Southern Special"

There was a "sharp" lawyer in Alexandria that started comparing part numbers on front axle components and realized they were the same on "Ford" lifted and standard trucks. Ford "sort of" said, "Ok, we'll fix your truck, just bring it in... Oh and we'll even replace the tires for you as a good will gesture."