AC Breaker and Power

Skins44 · 07-22-2019, 06:30 AM

camping in 100+ heat in Delaware over the weekend. Around 6pm Saturday, things got quiet in the camper (2017 276UBH - 30 amp). AC went out and lights got dim. AC breaker tripped. Pretty sure i know why...2 TV's on and streaming (kids relaxing watching TV after 7 hours on the beach), AC pumping, fridge on, iphone and tablet charging, lights on (so assuming converter was pulling amps) and 2 strands of palm tree lights (not LED) plugged in outside. Add all that up and pretty sure i was well over 30 amps.

reset the AC breaker, unplugged some things and was good. AC was back on.

My question, why did the lights dim if they run off of the battery? Also, checked my battery level on the panel and it was 1 bar (very low). Gradually, lights went back to normal and battery level showed full.

I wont get into the campground power going out at 3am! let's just say i got an early jump on the trip home.

MarkEHansen · 07-22-2019, 07:05 AM

It sounds to me like you had a brown-out at the camp power pedestal. Do you have an EMS installed in the trailer (or a portable one attached to the pedestal)? If not, you should get one before the results are far less favorable.

Also, if you were plugged in to the shore power when you checked the battery level, what you were actually checking was the voltage coming from the battery charger (on the converter), and not the battery. If taking the trailer off of shore power and your batteries show low, then they are not charging properly. Perhaps they need to be checked as well.

Good luck.

Skins44 · 07-22-2019, 07:10 AM

Thanks Mark. I use this at the electrical pedastal:
Camco Heavy Duty Dogbone RV Circuit Analyzer With Power Grip Handles, Integrated Surge Protection and Fault Indication (125V 30M/30F Amp) (55312)

would a brown out trip my AC breaker?

MarkEHansen · 07-22-2019, 07:21 AM

That's a surge protector and not an EMS. EMSs do far more to protect your RV. You should look into them. There are many threads on this forum which compare the two.

My favorite is the Progressive Industries EMS HW30C (hard-wired unit). It's not that expensive and not that difficult for a DIY'er to install.

As for the breaker, I'm not quite sure. I think when the volts goes down, all kinds of bad things can happen - some quite destructive. Perhaps others will have a better answer for that one.

Good luck.

wiredgeorge · 07-22-2019, 07:29 AM

I think your Camco gizmo might be good for catching voltage spikes but doesn't seem to be the correct device to protect from low voltage situation at the pole. Many use a Progressive EMS-PT30X which would actually turn off the power if it is low enough to put your electronics in danger and conversely will do the same if it is too high and it has, of course, a surge protect function. THere is also a similar Progressive unit that can be wired inside the camper near the converter and the power cord goes into this unit and then out to the converter. This is a good set up as well especially if you don't trust your neighbors at the camp ground you are staying at as Progressive EMS units tend to be popular items among camping enthusiasts. It is possible to use a bicycle lock or similar on your outdoor unit as it comes with a metal collar for running a cable through for this reason.

Would also like to point out that your breakers can trip is they get too hot. They are sometimes arrayed in your box in such a way as two higher draw breakers are adjacent (dumb but it happens). You can buy replacements to get the high draw way from its neighbor high draw breaker. The heat can also be mitigated by use of an additional fan. I used a 117V computer muffin fan I cobbled into the front panel of my voltage converter and it helps with the heat. It runs all the time when we are on shore power (117V).

Jarhead4life · 07-22-2019, 08:22 AM

Sounds like a couple things to check. Battery conditions? Are they holding a charge?,weak cells, 3 years old or older etc. Also what type of converter do you have? Perhaps its not floating or trickle charging your batteries perhaps its boiling them and over charging them constantly? Good luck.

Jarhead4life · 07-22-2019, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins44

camping in 100+ heat in Delaware over the weekend. Around 6pm Saturday, things got quiet in the camper (2017 276UBH - 30 amp). AC went out and lights got dim. AC breaker tripped. Pretty sure i know why...2 TV's on and streaming (kids relaxing watching TV after 7 hours on the beach), AC pumping, fridge on, iphone and tablet charging, lights on (so assuming converter was pulling amps) and 2 strands of palm tree lights (not LED) plugged in outside. Add all that up and pretty sure i was well over 30 amps.

reset the AC breaker, unplugged some things and was good. AC was back on.

My question, why did the lights dim if they run off of the battery? Also, checked my battery level on the panel and it was 1 bar (very low). Gradually, lights went back to normal and battery level showed full.

I wont get into the campground power going out at 3am! let's just say i got an early jump on the trip home.

Sounds like a couple things to check. Battery conditions? Are they holding a charge?,weak cells, 3 years old or older etc. Also what type of converter do you have? Perhaps its not floating or trickle charging your batteries perhaps its boiling them and over charging them constantly? Good luck

**sourdough** · 07-22-2019, 08:27 AM

You said the AC went out (breaker tripped - you didn't say whether ped or main inside) and the lights got "dim". At that point you were running on batteries. The first thing I would ask is what condition are they in? They would be the first thing I would suspect. The trailer is only 3 years old; the converter will probably be fine BUT the batteries may be toast, especially if there has been a lack of maintenance. When you replace them, replace them both to prevent a recurrence of the same situation.

Skins44 · 07-22-2019, 10:09 AM

Sourdough - only one battery and it is brand new as of this year (March 2019). The breaker that tripped was not the main. It was the AC.

Jarhead - not sure type of converter

Thanks for the replies

MarkEHansen · 07-22-2019, 10:17 AM

Don't assume that because the battery is new, that it can't be a problem. Your comment about the battery level indicator showing a low level indicates a problem. Don't ignore it.

**JRTJH** · 07-22-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins44

Thanks Mark. I use this at the electrical pedastal:
Camco Heavy Duty Dogbone RV Circuit Analyzer With Power Grip Handles, Integrated Surge Protection and Fault Indication (125V 30M/30F Amp) (55312)

would a brown out trip my AC breaker?

That "surge protector" (NOT EMS) won't protect your electrical system from low voltage, high amperage, lost ground, reverse wiring or "brown out" conditions.... It's got lights that will illuminate to warn you of some of the above problems, but it won't disconnect your trailer to protect your equipment.

So, while the light is "burning brightly" your air conditioner can also be "burning brightly" and unless you happen to walk outside and see the red light and turn off power, that CAMCO surge protector" will happily keep supplying power to your trailer until it either catches fire or a circuit breaker (inside on your power center or outside on the campground pole) opens to stop the damage.....

In other words, it'll burn down your camper before it protects it from anything but a power surge.

travelin texans · 07-22-2019, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins44

Sourdough - only one battery and it is brand new as of this year (March 2019). The breaker that tripped was not the main. It was the AC.

Jarhead - not sure type of converter

Thanks for the replies

Is the "new" battery a true deep cycle RV battery?
If there are CCA/CA, cranking amps, listed on the top, NO it's not.
The only numbers you'll want posted will be "Ah", the bigger the number the better.

Skins44 · 07-22-2019, 10:42 AM

understood, but within minutes after the AC going off and light dim, it was showing back at full charge. I will test the battery when i get home this evening.

MarkEHansen · 07-22-2019, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins44

understood, but within minutes after the AC going off and light dim, it was showing back at full charge. I will test the battery when i get home this evening.

If you were checking while connected to shore power, then you weren't looking at the state of charge on the battery, you were looking at the voltage being applied to the battery from the on-board charger.

wiredgeorge · 07-22-2019, 01:26 PM

I think someone who knows more than me tried to figure out if the 30A breaker at the pole box went off or the 20A breaker in your converter for the A/C. Or the 30A main for that matter in the converter. It makes a HUGE difference as far as trouble shooting. I am not saying you should load test your battery but I will say that if you are plugged into shore power, it gets converted in the converter box and if the shore power voltage dips, this may effect the DC voltage supplied to charge your battery. And for the second time, the Camco gizmo offers ZERO protection from power dips at the pole box.

**sourdough** · 07-22-2019, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins44

Sourdough - only one battery and it is brand new as of this year (March 2019). The breaker that tripped was not the main. It was the AC.

Jarhead - not sure type of converter

Thanks for the replies

Sorry. From the original post it sounded like you had flipped one or the other of your main breakers.

BadmanRick · 07-28-2019, 11:59 AM

We have been camping in Florida and the temperature is in the 90 s when at the campground running on the pedestal 30 amp breaker I have had it trip many times along with the 20 amp onboard A/C breaker trip. I have a 30amp surge guard portable power protector which shuts off as soon as it detect any power fluctuations.
Don’t get the cheap surge protector get a good powerful power protector.

larryflew · 07-28-2019, 12:38 PM

As your voltage drops your amperage on running items goes up. IE if your A/C draws 20 amps at 120 volts it's nearer to 25 amps at 100 volts. Considering what was running you also were not likely charging the battery as the voltage to the converter also drops, so with your low battery charge when the converter voltage dropped the amperage there also went up causing your lights to dim since they were not getting all of the 12+ volts they need.

bobbecky · 07-28-2019, 08:50 PM

Along with what has been stated, when on a 30 amp connection, you should have your water heater and fridge on propane only, as those two appliances draw quite a bit of load, and load management with a 30 amp system is the name of the game. If you do get an EMS protective device, get one with a remote display, and you will know exactly how much load you are drawing, plus all the benefits the EMS provides.

johnlewis · 07-29-2019, 07:08 PM

[QUOTE=MarkEHansen;350983]That's a surge protector and not an EMS. EMSs do far more to protect your RV. You should look into them. There are many threads on this forum which compare the two.

My favorite is the Progressive Industries EMS HW30C (hard-wired unit). It's not that expensive and not that difficult for a DIY'er to install.

As for the breaker, I'm not quite sure. I think when the volts goes down, all kinds of bad things can happen - some quite destructive. Perhaps others will have a better answer for that one.

Good luck.[/QUOTE

You are using power {watts}. Watts = volts x amps. When the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up.

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