Battery waterers -- experiences?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Kzneft

IMO I would just switch to Lithium. Best decision I made. No more hassle with acid degassing on the frame, watching water levels, etc.

The only "immediate detractor" from doing that is the price. A "quality lithium battery with a BMS that has a battery heater (so you can charge the battery in cold temperatures) runs around $750, a new battery box is around $25 and a new converter/charger so you can "fully charge the new battery" is around $200.

Other than that "$1000 expense to avoid checking FLA battery levels" lithium is a great option....

On the other hand, the battery watering system is roughly $35.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The only "immediate detractor" from doing that is the price. A "quality lithium battery with a BMS that has a battery heater (so you can charge the battery in cold temperatures) runs around $750, a new battery box is around $25 and a new converter/charger so you can "fully charge the new battery" is around $200.

Other than that "$1000 expense to avoid checking FLA battery levels" lithium is a great option....

On the other hand, the battery watering system is roughly $35.

You're a little bit out of date on the price of LFP batteries now you can get a 100AH chins for 230.00 , a 200AH for 549.00 and a 300ah for 829.00. tear downs have shown they are well built and use quality cells and BMS. As for heated, for the average person it is a total waste of money. So, one 100-amp LiFePo4 will replace two of those stupid 12V that the rv shop sells with their units and give you even more usable power. and a lot of people are not camping and charging below 32F unless they have a solar system, then an easy answer is just put the battery inside the heated space so it stays warm as you will most likely be using the furnace if it is that cold.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

You're a little bit out of date on the price of LFP batteries now you can get a 100AH chins for 230.00 , a 200AH for 549.00 and a 300ah for 829.00. tear downs have shown they are well built and use quality cells and BMS. As for heated, for the average person it is a total waste of money. So, one 100-amp LiFePo4 will replace two of those stupid 12V that the rv shop sells with their units and give you even more usable power. and a lot of people are not camping and charging below 32F unless they have a solar system, then an easy answer is just put the battery inside the heated space so it stays warm as you will most likely be using the furnace if it is that cold.

Even at those "cut rate prices" replacing the battery (even if one LFP replaces two or three FLA batteries) and replacing the converter/charger so you can take advantage of the LFP potential, it's going to be SIGNIFICANTLY more than the $35 to buy a battery watering system....

Thinking about that kind of pricing, I wonder why Keystone has not yet gone to those brands in their trailers?

It's not always about upgrading to more expensive (and possibly better performing) batteries, for many people on a budget or who just don't want to spend the money to buy LFP batteries and modify their trailer with a new converter/charger. Some people simply don't use their trailer often enough in a "boondock situation" to justify even $400-600 for a battery and a converter, but can justify a $35 FLA watering system so they don't have to check the battery level during the camping season.

I'm not "suggesting" that LFP batteries don't have a place in RV's, but I will state that not everyone who owns an RV needs or can justify the expense to convert to LFP power.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Even at those "cut rate prices" replacing the battery (even if one LFP replaces two or three FLA batteries) and replacing the converter/charger so you can take advantage of the LFP potential, it's going to be SIGNIFICANTLY more than the $35 to buy a battery watering system....

Thinking about that kind of pricing, I wonder why Keystone has not yet gone to those brands in their trailers?

It's not always about upgrading to more expensive (and possibly better performing) batteries, for many people on a budget or who just don't want to spend the money to buy LFP batteries and modify their trailer with a new converter/charger. Some people simply don't use their trailer often enough in a "boondock situation" to justify even $400-600 for a battery and a converter, but can justify a $35 FLA watering system so they don't have to check the battery level during the camping season.

I'm not "suggesting" that LFP batteries don't have a place in RV's, but I will state that not everyone who owns an RV needs or can justify the expense to convert to LFP power.

^^^^I would be one. I have no need for a lithium battery OR solar. I have no desire to boondock anymore nor camp in unimproved sites. To each his own but lithium batteries are a huge waste of money for anyone that travels like I do.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

^^^^I would be one. I have no need for a lithium battery OR solar. I have no desire to boondock anymore nor camp in unimproved sites. To each his own but lithium batteries are a huge waste of money for anyone that travels like I do.

I do boondock, at least a week each spring, in the UP, for the opening of bass season. We've been going to a lake we discovered back in the 80's that was then and still is now, crystal clear, over 100' deep, filled with large and smallmouth bass, bluegills and some "cold water/deep water fish" as well. Most of the "yoopers" don't fish for bass, it's below their acceptance level, so they fish for the 'gills and 'dem trouts and that leaves me happy as could be.

Anyway, we spend a week fishing every spring, always take along a 2KW generator and have never had any issues with battery power. The "old faithful WFCO 55 amp converter/charger and a pair of GC2 batteries provides all the power we need with an hour or two of charging while we watch the evening news while relaxing and planning the next day's fishing spots.

I've honestly got absolutely no desire to spend any money on buying parts or batteries for an upgrade to the "latest and greatest" that I neither need nor can justify....

If I were just looking to spend money, another 100 pack of Mann's jelly worms and maybe another spool or two of SpiderWire would likely be significantly higher on the wish list than would a new battery system and converter.

That said, I do have lithium batteries in the boat to run the electronics and lights, but guess what: LFP batteries can't provide the starting amps needed for my outboard, so even with the "latest and greatest" to run the boat, I've still got a FLA starting battery in the boat.....

Come to think about it, a "built in generator in an RV" would require a "high amp starter battery" too..... I'll have to do some checking to see if LFP batteries in, say a big toyhauler, would work to start the generator or if, like my tractor, my side by side and my outboard, the LFP BMS can't provide the starting surge without potential damage to the battery.

Lithium is "great for some things" and "great for some people" and "great for some applications" but there are limitations that make the technology "not so great for everything, not even in RV's for everybody"....

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=JRTJH;555966]I do boondock, at least a week each spring, in the UP, for the opening of bass season. We've been going to a lake we discovered back in the 80's that was then and still is now, crystal clear, over 100' deep, filled with large and smallmouth bass, bluegills and some "cold water/deep water fish" as well. Most of the "yoopers" don't fish for bass, it's below their acceptance level, so they fish for the 'gills and 'dem trouts and that leaves me happy as could be."

Count me in on most any freshwater fish. I do love my bass (large and small). I've caught and eaten so many trout (fresh and salt) that I'm pretty tired of them and they just aren't as "flaky" as the others (a bit oily). I love bluegills (perch) and crappie as well. Of course, here in the middle of 100 billion acres of sand and dirt, little rain and a lake somewhere within 5 hours in some direction I don't fish like I used to.

Bought a new bass boat (19') the year before I retired.....gave it to DS with 4 hours on it - DW hated not having a bigger boat with lots of shade. I gave my larger boat (with shade) to my DD and her husband because DW didn't really like being on the water and getting hot (I bought it with a head because she wanted that too)...... It had 14 hours. If I boondocked I would try to do it like we used to - all alone, beautiful country and fishing etc. AND where I could run a generator. I think those places are about gone. Made a loop up through Red River NM where I used to go all the time, camp on the river and fish. All blocked off, roads/trails closed, people everywhere in improved campgrounds going crazy......
Think from time to time about those before us; the experiences they had, what they saw and did..what they had to do to survive; the tales they shared. Now it's almost like those of us in our generation are going to go away having experienced so many things, been able to do so many things that the last few generations have no clue about. I think it's sad.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Anyway, we spend a week fishing every spring, always take along a 2KW generator and have never had any issues with battery power. The "old faithful WFCO 55 amp converter/charger and a pair of GC2 batteries provides all the power we need with an hour or two of charging while we watch the evening news while relaxing and planning the next day's fishing spots.

I get your point, I used to do it with 4 gc2's and no genny then when I got my 5th wheel they through solar in the deal and with my GC2 and the solar I am golden. where it started for me was my truck camper. I put solar on it and two GC2 batteries took up the entire outside storage and I had to get a watering system. that gave me 100 usable AH which with the solar works great but if I run into bad weather in the fall I have about 2.5 to 3 days I can go with out sun. by switching to LiFePO4 I reduced the weight in the camper by 100lbs and got my outside storage back all while giving me 300AH of usable battery so the wife got an inverter haha

but here is my question. You already had a generator. if you were starting from scratch going with a 300AH battery a new converter section and solar would be much cheaper than a decent genny (unless you're paying rv store prices ) and would work for anyone who doesn't have to run their AC.

What would you recommend for someone just starting out that wants to do boondocking?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

...
What would you recommend for someone just starting out that wants to do boondocking?

That depends entirely on where they will be boondocking, the time of year and the conditions they usually encounter. Not all "boondocking areas" are capable of supporting solar systems and not all seasonal camping is done at times when solar is "peak performing" on most RV installations.

As an example, the lake described above that we fish every year is 12 miles down a gravel road that gradually turns to a 1 lane dirt road through the forest for the last 2 miles. That ends at a State Forest Campground that sits on about 50-60 acres of forest, on the shore of the lake. There are 8 campsites, all separated by at least 100', but usually around 250' between campsites. There's one "hand pump well, two outhouses, fire rings at each campsite and that's it. There are no trash barrels (bears and coons ended that years ago) and what you take in, you take out with you.

The entire campground is completely covered by 50-100 foot tree canopy. There is one campsite open to the sky, all the rest are completely blocked by shade. Solar is not effective in that campground. Even in the winter, when the trees lose their leaves, solar isn't a "go to solution" since the campground is so far north and the angle of the sun in winter means less than a 50% effective rate on roof mounted panels.

So, even for a "new boondocker wanting to start with a new trailer" some situations call for something other than a LFP battery system with a large solar collector system.

Then there's budget considerations. Even for a new RV'er with a new trailer, their budget is critically important to determining which battery system they choose. As examples, a young family with a single axle Hideout or Springdale "entry level trailer" in the $14K price point, being towed by a small pickup and with a family income that barely supports the payments they have, I'd not recommend a "high dollar solar system to camp that lake".

On the other hand, someone who is just starting with a "top of the line toyhauler, a new luxury dually, 4 motocross cycles and a 4 wheeler with plans to boondock near the sand dunes along the shoreline of Lake Michigan, I'd recommend a significantly different "boondocking power system".

Just as the "young family trying to enjoy camping in an entry level that straps their budget can hardly afford another expensive addition" the other extreme, with an unlimited budget already has a generator in their toyhauler, but wants more power capability with a "no budget considerations and lots of "roof space to install things" would be a very different recommendation.

Finally, just because you "can" doesn't mean that you "should"..... In the above two examples, the "can" is the role of a "commission sales with interest based on their weekly income" where the "should" is (IMO) based more on what best fits the needs of someone on a budget that is attempting to get started with payments they can afford to make while still having enough after the payments to actually use their new trailer.....

Lithium power is not the only game in town for RV's, just as EV's are not the solution for every transportation need.

[B-O-B'03]

I have had the flow-rite system for a number of years now and love it. I leave the camper on shore power all the time when we are home so the convenience of being able to just click the pump hose on, drop it into a jug of distilled water and give it a few squeezes is beyond compare.

The battery box I use has a hole near the top that is perfect for the water fitting to rest in when not in use.



I also added an Anderson connector that I can plug my macerator pump into or the charge controller for our portable solar panel.



-Brian

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Some people simply don't use their trailer often enough in a "boondock situation" to justify even $400-600 for a battery and a converter, but can justify a $35 FLA watering system so they don't have to check the battery level during the camping season.

DW and I are not boondockers. Our battery is more or less a short-term UPS (that, plus the slide and jacks refuse to function without it). I added a 12V leg to run my CPAP just in case of a power failure (nothing like waking up choking because your headgear isn't feeding air anymore). So far, we've used it exactly once, when our campground at Bryce Canyon announced at 6 PM (via leaflets) that they needed to do maintenance on the shore power at midnight for an hour. About ten minutes in, I got a low-voltage alarm from my inCommand (11.9v). I shut off the CPAP, took our phones off the chargers (to DW's displeasure) and spend the hour in my recliner, until the power returned.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by LHaven

DW and I are not boondockers. Our battery is more or less a short-term UPS (that, plus the slide and jacks refuse to function without it). I added a 12V leg to run my CPAP just in case of a power failure (nothing like waking up choking because your headgear isn't feeding air anymore). So far, we've used it exactly once, when our campground at Bryce Canyon announced at 6 PM (via leaflets) that they needed to do maintenance on the shore power at midnight for an hour. About ten minutes in, I got a low-voltage alarm from my inCommand (11.9v). I shut off the CPAP, took our phones off the chargers (to DW's displeasure) and spend the hour in my recliner, until the power returned.

Then, your battery usage would be yet another example of why a large investment in lithium batteries and a new converter/charger would not be a mod that would pay for itself in functional improvement over FLA batteries. Spending $400 on cheap batteries or $1000 on a Dragonfly/Battleborn vs $35 to buy a battery watering system isn't a challenging decision for most.