Keystone Flooring Problems

heff69 · 05-25-2010, 10:18 AM

I have a 2008 Keystone Laredo (284BH) "Extreme Glacier Edition" trailer purchased from Schwaab's RV in Leduc, Alberta Canada.

When I was sold the trailer, I was told that the "Extreme Glacier" package was designed to handle our Canadian winters.

The trailer gets stored during the winter in a storage compound. When I pulled it out this spring, I was shocked to see that all of my linoleum flooring has cracked out of it and is far beyond repair. All of the cracks started at the heat registers, and split the full length of the trailer. The linoleum in the rear storage area is not cracked but is all uneven and lifted as well. The linoleum was only sparsely glued near the registers, and is easily lifted up now.

I called Schwaab's and even though I had purchased an extended warranty on the trailer, they say it is not covered under warranty and that I should contact Keystone.

I called Keystone, and they refused to help...just stating that it is beyond warranty. This was the first winter we have had the trailer! Schwaab's told me they have 4 in their inventory that cracked over the winter, and numerous other customer complaints. Keystone fails to recognize that it is a problem and glue down the flooring appropriately.

I called my insurance company, and they are refusing the claim..stating that this is occurring far too often now...especially with Keystone, and that it is "poor craftsmanship". They advise to call the manufacturer.

Dealership - no help.
Extended Warranty - Useless.
Insurance - refused.
Keystone - If you already own one...sorry! If you don't, stay away..and make sure the floor is glued down on what you buy.
Me - screwed over!

Festus2 · 05-25-2010, 01:23 PM

Have you tried getting in touch with the company who has the Extended Warranty? You should have been issued a policy with this warranty that states what is covered and what is not. Have you checked this over? The dealer may not be totally familiar with the terms and conditions of your warranty and may be giving you wrong information.
Your insurance company's refusal based on what has happened with other people doesn't seem right. If you had made numerous claims, I could understand them refusing to cover you but if this is a first-time claim with them, dismissing you by saying that it is shoddy workmanship on the part of the manufacturer doesn't seem right. But insurance companies will find a way to avoid paying you for a replacement floor cover.
Hope you can find a way to get compensation.
I would send the photos to Keystone and hear what their explanation is.

MightyMike · 05-25-2010, 06:03 PM

I'm no big fan of Keystone and their warranty isssues, but I'm a little confused here. If this is the first winter you have the trailer, how is it out of warranty already? Warranty starts the day you take delivery, and lasts 1 wonderful year(That never ceases to amaze me, that they ALL do that.) So it would sound to me like you either bought it used, or you really did have it more than a year. Not trying to disrespect you, just confused.

Seann · 05-26-2010, 06:27 AM

This happens because to "save a kilo of weight" they only perimeter glue the lino down. When you replace the lino make sure it is fully glued down.

travr · 05-28-2010, 07:25 AM

We bought ours from Aarkann Edmonton. I noticed the floor beginning to do the same thing around the registers. I didn't like the look of it anyway. Aarkann has a guy who did a great job on my 393 fuzion. Replaced the whole main floor, then replaced the bathroom and ran it out in front of the shower. Looks great and is superior to the stock junk. It cost me under 1000.00. I agree though, keystone won't be much help.

BCRVer · 06-07-2010, 06:47 PM

Wow! Thats some damage. I've got a 2005 Challenger with what looks like the same flooring, lived fulltime for a year in it and still floor looks like new. Maybe there was a bad roll of linoleum in the mix. Only time I've ever seen this is in old houses and severely water damaged floors. I'd keep harassing Keystone, I've had work done after warranty by my dealer and only had to pay once for work on a slide and Keystone still paid for 1/2 the labour. Maybe your dealer isn't sticking up for you enough...

Good Luck with it.

djguinup · 06-22-2010, 12:04 PM

Ya we have had nothing but trouble with our 2008 Larado as well first winter it was the flooring and counter tops all cracked, they payed to fix it after we hounded the hell out of them, the work was done at Outback R.V. in Sherwood pk Alberta, what a farce that place is they did a sh*t job on the floor it was all cracked under the cupbords as well but they didn't fix that and now this spring I went in it & the lino is all currled up, they didn't glue it down right either and its not even cut straight, I am waiting to here back from them to see if there going to pay to fix it right this time, I also for the second time need my tub suround replaced it's also all cracked!What a peice of crap this trailer is all that money for a never ending headache!After leaving Outback last time they told us not to ever come back there, nice place eh? So here we are again stuck with a fight on our hands & still not able to camp or travel with our 5th wheel we have used all of 3 times...this story to be continued . djguinup

fiddlinrver · 06-30-2010, 08:15 AM

It is interesting that you would bring up this subject. We just returned from the Keystone factory in Pendleton, OR. They make Cougars (& other products) there - not Laredo.

The tour guide told us that they had many warranty issues and high cost to the company over the flooring that cracked and shattered. He indicated it was mostly from Alberta and the extreme cold winter storage of the RV. He explained it just like your post (almost exploding cracking).

He said this is not an issue when temps are above zero - just the very cold temps. They have now changed the type of flooring so this problem won't come up with the newer stuff. He showed/told us what it was but we don't have the newer stuff on our 2010 Cougar (came off the line 4-18-10). He told us it would not be an issue in the areas we travel (WA, AZ).

I would push harder with Keystone and tell them you have heard they are taking care of customers with this issue.

Berick · 03-13-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heff69

I have a 2008 Keystone Laredo (284BH) "Extreme Glacier Edition" trailer purchased from Schwaab's RV in Leduc, Alberta Canada.

When I was sold the trailer, I was told that the "Extreme Glacier" package was designed to handle our Canadian winters.

The trailer gets stored during the winter in a storage compound. When I pulled it out this spring, I was shocked to see that all of my linoleum flooring has cracked out of it and is far beyond repair. All of the cracks started at the heat registers, and split the full length of the trailer. The linoleum in the rear storage area is not cracked but is all uneven and lifted as well. The linoleum was only sparsely glued near the registers, and is easily lifted up now.

I called Schwaab's and even though I had purchased an extended warranty on the trailer, they say it is not covered under warranty and that I should contact Keystone.

I called Keystone, and they refused to help...just stating that it is beyond warranty. This was the first winter we have had the trailer! Schwaab's told me they have 4 in their inventory that cracked over the winter, and numerous other customer complaints. Keystone fails to recognize that it is a problem and glue down the flooring appropriately.

I called my insurance company, and they are refusing the claim..stating that this is occurring far too often now...especially with Keystone, and that it is "poor craftsmanship". They advise to call the manufacturer.

Dealership - no help.
Extended Warranty - Useless.
Insurance - refused.
Keystone - If you already own one...sorry! If you don't, stay away..and make sure the floor is glued down on what you buy.
Me - screwed over!

Oh boy! This is not what I wanted to read! I just finished buying a 2011 Outback 298RE and the dealership I spoke with originally was Schwaabs... a sales guy there by the name of Robbie. The trailer we just sold had problems with the lino curling in the corners and this guy told me that the lino in the Keystone trailers doesn't do that and that this was a "top-notch" manufacturer!

Off-topic a bit here---I went to the RV Show in Edmonton and I decided to look around at pricing for the model I wanted and 2 weeks after the show the guy (Robbie) said the prices went up 3% and he would have to charge me more now (odd seems how our dollar increased in value???). The guy kept trying to tell me he was an honest guy and there was no "smoke and mirrors". That this would be the best deal I would find. Anyways I thought about getting one shipped up from the USA but than I found out the dealers would not service it if I bought it from the US. This would have saved me $4,000 but the threat of "no-service" scared me into buying from an Alberta dealer. I ended up putting 4 dealers in a bidding war to get my business and I got it in Edson from Happy Camper RV... for $2,000.00 less than the original show-price that Schwaabs gave me! I don't trust that Schwaabs dealership and I know they likely won't service my RV cuz I bought it from someone else. I really hope my new trailer does not need service or warranty work! I pick it up at the end of April!

walker1 · 03-14-2011, 04:29 PM

Where did you heat that if purchased in the US that you could not get it serviced in Alberta? I bought a Cougar fiver in Michigan and had it shipped to Alberta and picked up in Dec.

easternmontanarvers · 04-19-2011, 08:34 AM

Looks just like what ours did. I posted on this forum earlier that we have had no luck getting Keystone to replace the linoleum. They did offer a goodwill of $150 to apply to the cost of the linoleum if we would send them a copy of the purchase invoice. Well, linoleum has been purchased and a copy sent to Keystone. However, customer service has decided not to send us the $150 because we have posted to other forums regarding this problem. Seems their word is no good either. I hope any one else with this problem will keep after Keystone and let people know about the problem.

Bob Landry · 04-24-2011, 04:54 PM

I read this thread a while back and didn't give it much thought until this weekend. DW was vacuuming with a small shop vac I bought to keep the trailer clean. She lifted the nozzle while it was still touching the sheet vinyl, and the flooring actually lifted up a little. It's obvious that if Keystone uses any adhesive at all when they lay the flooring, it isn't much.This is a 2011 277RL, not an older trailer as had been mentioned in this thread. There's no way to lift it and apply adhesive since all of the kicthen counters and cabinetry, etc. is installed on top of it. If I ever have to replace/reglue the flooring, it will probably require either gutting the trailer and starting from scratch, or just laying the linoleum as I can and try to match the woodwork with some quarter round on the edges. Hopefully this will not come to pass since I don't store it in harsh climates. That's still poor construction, IMHO. Otherwise, it's a pretty nice trailer. I've only had to fix a couple of minor things and I went ahead and did it because my time was cheaper than gas to haul it to a dealer and leave it for two weeks.

DBake · 06-07-2011, 05:15 PM

Well...it's unfortunate but I get to join the club too. Entering the trailer for the first time since putting away for the winter, I found, to my dismay, the lino is cracked down the middle from front to back. Not impressed.
Has anyone thought about replacing the lino with laminate flooring?
All I need is another project this spring.
DBake

sosad · 06-07-2011, 05:49 PM

I can only hope enough people view this forum and see how Keystone RV responds to customer problems. Problems caused by their cheap products and bad workmanship. The happy customer is the key to a sucessful company. Nothing advertises a company better than satisfied repeat customers. To people who have not bought their product, beware. They only want your money and after that you become a thorn in their paw if something goes wrong. Read as many trailer forums as you can. Add up the pissed off Keystone customers, think and go in a different direction. Too many good products out there to be stuck with a badly made one!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by heff69

I have a 2008 Keystone Laredo (284BH) "Extreme Glacier Edition" trailer purchased from Schwaab's RV in Leduc, Alberta Canada.

When I was sold the trailer, I was told that the "Extreme Glacier" package was designed to handle our Canadian winters.

The trailer gets stored during the winter in a storage compound. When I pulled it out this spring, I was shocked to see that all of my linoleum flooring has cracked out of it and is far beyond repair. All of the cracks started at the heat registers, and split the full length of the trailer. The linoleum in the rear storage area is not cracked but is all uneven and lifted as well. The linoleum was only sparsely glued near the registers, and is easily lifted up now.

I called Schwaab's and even though I had purchased an extended warranty on the trailer, they say it is not covered under warranty and that I should contact Keystone.

I called Keystone, and they refused to help...just stating that it is beyond warranty. This was the first winter we have had the trailer! Schwaab's told me they have 4 in their inventory that cracked over the winter, and numerous other customer complaints. Keystone fails to recognize that it is a problem and glue down the flooring appropriately.

I called my insurance company, and they are refusing the claim..stating that this is occurring far too often now...especially with Keystone, and that it is "poor craftsmanship". They advise to call the manufacturer.

Dealership - no help.
Extended Warranty - Useless.
Insurance - refused.
Keystone - If you already own one...sorry! If you don't, stay away..and make sure the floor is glued down on what you buy.
Me - screwed over!

Txoutback · 06-08-2011, 08:58 AM

I can comment on lino in general that it does shrink and expand with temp and you do not want a strong contact adhesive all over for this reason. There are several grades of thickness, ply and durability that does affect the product longivity as well as cost and weight. You don't see this cracking happening in your home due to the simple fact that you would never allow your home to get that cold and you have a higher grade of material. You don't care how much it weighs in the house do you? A cheap, thin, light weight grade was used in my 277RL and you do not want that stuff "glued down all over". You want it to move like you would a hardwood floor using a light adhesion compound. Furthermore, tearing at the registers would be the place for that to happen. Anywhere ther is a 90 degree cut. The assembler no doubt cut it in a manner that created the weakest point by hastely cutting it with a box cutter and straight edge to 90 degree corners and overcutting it. Wrong. There should be two 45 degree cuts at each corner or a radius created with a punch.
I'm not backing KS but I do see how this would happen. They try to meet the customer's demand for a light weight unit with appeal at a low cost. That is a business model that will take them down. They will soon learn that they either need to improve their QC and increase their price or die.
Regardless, take the money you saved not buying the extended warranty and hire a flooring contractor to do it right with the right material you will enjoy for years to come. That is about an $800 job with some real nice material of your choice.

Dave

The Sod Father · 06-08-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txoutback

I'm not backing KS but I do see how this would happen. They try to meet the customer's demand for a light weight unit with appeal at a low cost. That is a business model that will take them down. They will soon learn that they either need to improve their QC and increase their price or die.
Regardless, take the money you saved not buying the extended warranty and hire a flooring contractor to do it right with the right material you will enjoy for years to come. That is about an $800 job with some real nice material of your choice.

Dave

Well said Dave. I passed on the extended warranty for just this reason. I know stuff is going to break/fail/etc after the silly 1 yr warranty period is up. So I will either fix it myself, or use the money I would have spent on an extended warranty and pay my local dealer to fix it right. I am fortunate in that I have a dealer just a few miles from my house that does great service work and, (believe it or not) is pretty honest.

Txoutback · 06-09-2011, 03:49 AM

Some issues can be repaired or serviced by a good handy man or contractor for a fraction of what the dealer will charge. The flooring is one example. Leaks, electrical and cabinetry would be another. I do not knolw if anyone outside of the RV world would work on the fridg, furnace or A/C though. I have a co-worker that does flooring as a side job and that is where I got the info above. I talked to a few friends yesterday, one is an appliance repairman and the other is a heat/ac contractor, both self employed. They both said that they would not touch a RV system due to the cost and availability of replacement parts and their touchy behavior. Neither would consider replacing one due to sealing and leak liability. For those we are stuck with the RV service center.

Myyke · 04-04-2013, 05:58 PM

Not sure if it will work for everyone, but i was told when i bought my 91 21' monterey that whenever you store your trailer to block and level it. Not sure if it was built tougher then but, my lino has never cracked in it and i leave outside year round. there's even been times when i've stayed in it at -25C at the river lot i have. Might be a suggestion.

apr67 · 04-05-2013, 09:10 AM

Just a Note.

I live in a Manufactured Home, made by fleetwood.

The linoleum is stapled along the walls only, no adhesive.

Makes it easy to replace however (if you have ever scraped old glued down linoleum off you know what I mean).

geo · 04-05-2013, 09:39 AM

I had to replace the linoleum in our Alpine due to a "bubble" formed by the kitchen slide. The slide, when retracted, rode upon the floor on a carpet pad nailed to the bottom of the cabinet attached to the slide. However, the weight and the movement caused the linoleum to stretch until a "bubble" was formed. (Yes, poor design.) Last summer when we returned from vacation, the carpeting caught the bubble and pulled/tore the linoleum apart in a three foot triangle. I replaced the linoleum with tile from HD. What I noticed was that the linoleum was nailed through/beneath the carpet, but "free" on the other sides. It felt as though the linoleum was held in place by rubber cement under the expanse of the linoleum. Now, I'm sure it wasn't actual rubber cement, but something similar that offers an adhesive force yet allows movement also.

Ron

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