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Old 07-02-2019, 07:30 AM   #1
Bechard
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Question New to Trucks - Trying to understand what I need

Hi folks, I'm pulling a Bullet Crossfire 2200BH @ 4200 lbs dry with my 2016 Chevy Traverse (5200 lb max towing) and I'm likely right at my max weight.

I'm looking into replacing the SUV with a truck that's either new or a couple years old, but would love some insight into what kind of truck and capacities I should be after. We'd prefer a crew cab (two kids and a dog with the wife and I) for cruising comfort.

I believe Ram 1500, Ford F150 have configurations that should work, I just don' t know where to start (which model types, box size, ratios?).

The plan is to upgrade our TV so that we can go anywhere in Canada and USA from Southwestern Ontario. We currently just take it slow (105 kmph / 65 mph) and while we have no sway at all, we completely lack power and can't cross much more than a freeway overpass.

Any insight is appreciated. I just drove a truck for the first time this weekend when we were camping, so yeah.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:16 AM   #2
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That Crossfire is a nice single axle TT for sure, but I'm going to suggest a little proactive planning for the future. The kiddos will get bigger maybe even another added along the way. In any case you're likely to move up to a larger RV in the future. If finances allow I'd start looking at a 2500/250 model pickup. Short or long bed is up to you (I prefer short so it fits in the garage). You'll want a 6+ liter engine with a 373 gear ratio for towing. I wouldn't rule out buying a nice pre-owned truck if it fits your needs but would suggest 2008 or newer to get the latest in engine and transmission updates.
Good Luck and Keep On Campin'
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:21 AM   #3
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My first advice would be to ignore the dry weight provided by the trailer manufacturer - it's not useful. The best thing to use is the actual weight of the trailer when it's loaded up for camping + an allowance for the holding tanks (as you may have to pull when they are full).

If you can't weight the trailer, the next best thing is to use the GVWR of the trailer as a starting point.

Next, once you have the weight of the trailer (using either method), then you need to determine the tongue weight. Again, you can weigh it, or just assume 12%-15% of the GVWR for the trailer.

With those two numbers, you can easily determine what truck you need to fit the bill.

Here's a couple links that should help:

https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/ma...ks-to-trailers

Towing information video: https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

Plus there will be a lot of help on these forums.

One thing to keep in mind - it is much better to have too much truck than not enough truck. Consider also whether you think it's possible you may want to upgrade your trailer in the future - you may want to get a truck that can handle that future trailer as well.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:31 AM   #4
Ken / Claudia
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Forget using the dry weight of any RV to match to any TV. Use the GVWR as the weight your be towing. You may come in under the GVWR when loaded up to use the RV, but you will never know until you go to a weight station and weigh it. RV tongue weights as dry are also real misleading. An example, Keystone said my listed TT is 560 lbs, I checked it loaded and going camping at 920 lbs.
If your ever maybe going to upsize your RV as many do, look forward and buy a truck that will work for a bigger RV unless your able to buy RVs and TVs when ever you want. A good TV can last decades most RVs not so much. Many, many people on here needlessly go though TV as fast as RV due to buying a TV that will work for the current RV and no way with the next RV they buy.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
My first advice would be to ignore the dry weight provided by the trailer manufacturer - it's not useful. The best thing to use is the actual weight of the trailer when it's loaded up for camping + an allowance for the holding tanks (as you may have to pull when they are full).

If you can't weight the trailer, the next best thing is to use the GVWR of the trailer as a starting point.

Next, once you have the weight of the trailer (using either method), then you need to determine the tongue weight. Again, you can weigh it, or just assume 12%-15% of the GVWR for the trailer.

With those two numbers, you can easily determine what truck you need to fit the bill.

Here's a couple links that should help:

https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/ma...ks-to-trailers

Towing information video: https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

Plus there will be a lot of help on these forums.

One thing to keep in mind - it is much better to have too much truck than not enough truck. Consider also whether you think it's possible you may want to upgrade your trailer in the future - you may want to get a truck that can handle that future trailer as well.

Good luck in your search.
You guys type faster than I do! I was typing the very same suggeestions.
Agree, forget that dry weight ever existed, it will NEVER weigh that again, & don't pay too much attention to the advertised "max tow rating" of any truck your looking at, you'll need the payload from the drivers door post. Pay load is everything in/on the truck + tongue weight & the weight of your weight distributing hitch.
Any of the big 3, brand is your choice, will have the cab & comfort configurations you're looking for & agree a 2500/250 would be my 1st choice for any future upgrades, price won't be much more for more truck.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:47 AM   #6
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Welcome to the forum from Radium Hot Springs BC.
If a 5th wheel is in your future go directly to a 1 ton.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:49 AM   #7
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Keystone website shows the Crossfire to be a 6300lb. gvw trailer. Too much for the Traverse so getting another TV is a very good thing.

You don't give your ages but with 2 "kids" I assume there may be the possibility of another (or more?). If so the 2200 may get cramped for you in the future and make a larger RV necessary.

A 1/2 ton will be happy with 6300lbs. as long as it is equipped properly. Not so much if you get over about 7-7500. I know others pull more, and so have I, with their 1/2 tons, but, the truck (nor you) will be as happy as you would be with a 3/4 ton (btdt).

Trying to determine what the family will be like in the future is like trying to look into a crystal ball (I know) but give it your best shot - you really don't want to have to do a vehicle upgrade everytime you opt for a new RV.

If you go with a 1/2 ton; crew cab mandatory IMO (I love them), short bed (for me and garage), biggest V8 offered (some have and seem happy with the 3.5 Ford Ecoboost and there are some small diesels now offered in 1/2 tons), with that combo I like a lower (higher numerically) axle ratio - at 7k+ I would want a 3.73 minimum, 3.92 preferably and possibly a 4.10.

For a 3/4 ton I still like a CC, SWB, bigger V8 (6+liter), 3.73 minimum and 4.10 max. I am in the market for a 1 ton gas and will be going with a 4.10 ratio (if I ever find one). If you opt for a larger trailer (10k +) just go for a diesel.

Lots of options, and, lots of money. Figure out your needs as best you can then study the various truck options to see what works for the family both truck and finance wise. Fire away with any questions - the members have lots of combos of trucks and RVs, lots of experience and lots of opinions that will vary from mine so make use of them. But, you DO need a bigger TV.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
Forget using the dry weight of any RV to match to any TV. Use the GVWR as the weight your be towing.
I'm finding a lot of recommendations for this, so yeah sounds good.

Looks like 6300 lb GVWR for my 22' dual axle Bullet.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:19 AM   #9
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I'm finding a lot of recommendations for this, so yeah sounds good.

Looks like 6300 lb GVWR for my 22' dual axle Bullet.
With any 1/2 ton, you will find that you run out of payload before you reach the max towing numbers from the brochure.

So focus on the payload of whatever you look at.

Tongue weight is around 12.5% of trailer weight (between 10% and 15%), and is not what the brochure says it is. So with a 6,300 lb GVWR, your tongue weight will be around 800 lbs (give or take). Add in 100 lbs for your hitch and bars and you have 900 lbs of payload before you put anyone in the truck, or anything in the back of it.

Payload sticker on the truck usually includes the driver @ 150lbs, so need to add the amount the driver is over 150, the second adult, the 2 kids and the dog. Guessing around 400 for people/dog total and you are at 1,300 lbs.

Now 1/2 ton payloads vary greatly, from 1,200 to 2,100 lbs depending on the individual truck setup. Get one with a decent towing package and you have room for gear. Get one set up for fuel economy and you won't have room. Newer trucks have a payload number on a door sticker. It is specific to the truck as it leaves the factory, but tool boxes, running boards etc. will take away from the number.

And, as pointed out above, if you outgrow your current unit, you'll likely be out of even a decent 1/2 ton towing range. So now it's what 3/4 ton do you like.

After that we get into the gas vs diesel conversation. THat's always fun.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:42 AM   #10
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I wouldn't say ANY half ton, there are a few unicorns. They have to be special ordered, but the HDPP Ford offers can carry a good payload for a half ton. This isn't mine, I wish it was. It belongs to a friend.

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Old 07-02-2019, 10:45 AM   #11
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This forum will instill in your mind that excessive payload is a good thing. Go big or go home!

https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...ightliner-fl60
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:48 AM   #12
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This forum will instill in your mind that excessive payload is a good thing. Go big or go home!



https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...ightliner-fl60
This'll do it!Click image for larger version

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Old 07-02-2019, 11:55 AM   #13
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Easy answer, go for a 2500/250 size truck if you can afford it. You'll have the payload capacity in a truck that is designed to tow, right from the factory. It will come with a trailer brake controller, and a tow/haul mode for the transmission, and an axle ratio designed for the task. It will future proof you (somewhat) and will defintely control your current TT.
Also, unless you intend to be traveling on slippery surfaces such as ice/snow or wet dirt roads, stick with 2WD. They have a larger payload capacity, cost less to buy and maintain(repair), less weight to carry in the running gear, less to go wrong with, and are a bit lower to the ground for easier entry exit of occupants. Also easier getting things in and out of the bed.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:27 PM   #14
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I wouldn't say ANY half ton, there are a few unicorns. They have to be special ordered, but the HDPP Ford offers can carry a good payload for a half ton. This isn't mine, I wish it was. It belongs to a friend.

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I know they exist, I couldn't find one in Western Canada when I bought my GMC (2015 lbs payload) and they seem to be rarer then hens teeth (as Grandpa used to say).

What motor is in that one? The 3.5L?
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:49 PM   #15
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Yes, if I'm not mistaken that package is only available with the eco. I know max tow is. Generally they have to be ordered. I think it's EXTREMELY rare to find one on a lot. I think that more or less only happens if one is ordered and they back out.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:17 PM   #16
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Wess,

I think what you're currently facing (a tow vehicle that is not up to the task) has you concerned with "abusing the vehicle" and more importantly, making sure that your towing a safe rig with your family onboard. Those are valid concerns when you have a trailer that's "too much for the truck"...

The concerns with getting a larger, stronger vehicle have you "searching" now, realize that as your family grows, the kids will want to take along their "bigger toys", first tricycles, then bicycles, then motorcycles... Once they reach a certain age, they will "pitch a fit" if they can't bring along their "best friend and his bicycle" as well.....

What I'm alluding to, is that the "uncomfortable position" you're in right now will probably be repeated in a few short years when you realize that the trailer you have isn't big enough and the truck you have isn't going to be big enough for the trailer you'll need as the kids grow......

I think everyone here is suggesting that you look realistically at not only your next tow vehicle, but also consider that you're going to be looking at larger trailers, probably sooner rather than later.....

Avoid getting into the same situation you're in right now, consider a 3/4 ton now and it'll be paid for when your family grows into the next, larger RV.....
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:28 PM   #17
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OK a little bit bigger than my Passport.
Lots of folks here just go crazy about bigger is better.
My wife and I go to all the RV shows we can find and talk about why our TT is better. If you feel this way.
I have a 2017 Chevy Silverado with the tow package, NOT the max tow package.
5.3L V8, 3.42 gears and a double cab.
Ford version, if you must would be the F150 tow package you don't need Max Tow but you do need tow package for the bigger cooling. True for Ford and Chevy.
The first year I pulled our TT with a Ford Explorer Sport with the 3.5 EcoBoost. It too was rated for 5K lbs but I was not happy.
My Silverado 1500 is my daily driver but if you go to a F250 or bigger you get a solid front axle and bad gas millage and bad ride.
Unless you KNOW you plan to go bigger in the next few years look for a 1500 or 150 with the tow package and around 3.42 or 3.55 gears.
You will have a truck that pulls your TT with ease and is also a good daily driver.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:34 PM   #18
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I think the OP should first determine their long term objective. Is a larger trailer in the foreseeable future (looking out to about 5 years)? If not, a well-provisioned half ton would be the better choice. If no future upgrade is to be had and the truck will be used as an all-around daily commuter, ride comfort will not be compromised and he'll have a capable TV for those summer camping trips. Additionally, the higher MPGs in a 1/2 ton platform will be appreciated.

As all trucks are spec'ed out quite differently, the bigger concern is finding one that matches the trailer in question. Most full size truck manufacturers will offer options in their truck lines to safely tow a 6600 lb trailer. Ford leads the way with the most available payload, but I highly doubt a 2600# capacity is required.

RAM will be probably offer the most affordable value in their line up. Look for a 3.92 axle ratio with the 5.7 Hemi to maximize its towing capability.

If, however, the OP has any desire for a short-term trailer upgrade (1-3 years), a HD truck would definitely be the better option. Personally, any time frame over 4-5 years can be addressed in 4-5 years time as the newer models would be "generally" more appealing and more capable, even slightly used ones.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:37 PM   #19
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but if you go to a F250 or bigger you get a solid front axle and bad gas millage and bad ride.
Unless you KNOW you plan to go bigger in the next few years look for a 1500 or 150 with the tow package and around 3.42 or 3.55 gears.
You will have a truck that pulls your TT with ease and is also a good daily driver.
I couldn't agree more!
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:25 PM   #20
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OK a little bit bigger than my Passport.
Lots of folks here just go crazy about bigger is better.
My wife and I go to all the RV shows we can find and talk about why our TT is better. If you feel this way.
I have a 2017 Chevy Silverado with the tow package, NOT the max tow package.
5.3L V8, 3.42 gears and a double cab.
Ford version, if you must would be the F150 tow package you don't need Max Tow but you do need tow package for the bigger cooling. True for Ford and Chevy.
The first year I pulled our TT with a Ford Explorer Sport with the 3.5 EcoBoost. It too was rated for 5K lbs but I was not happy.
My Silverado 1500 is my daily driver but if you go to a F250 or bigger you get a solid front axle and bad gas millage and bad ride.
Unless you KNOW you plan to go bigger in the next few years look for a 1500 or 150 with the tow package and around 3.42 or 3.55 gears.
You will have a truck that pulls your TT with ease and is also a good daily driver.
Unless the OP, or anyone else, choses a 4x4 they WILL NOT get a solid front axle. Also with Ram & GM, can't speak for Ford's, if you were blindfolded & put into a 1500 & a 2500 both with equal options & equiptment, unless you have very sensitive cheeks, you'd be hard pressed to tell which was which after a short drive, plus the price difference will be negliable.
After 40 years of towing rvs, & every other type of trailer, believe me that if for no other reason than piece of mind, bigger/more is better & nowadays the ride, the mileage & the price are all about equal between big & not enough.
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