Cougar Half Ton

[x96mnn]

Was just looking at the Keystone 2013 line up and notice they have a new half ton series.

Is there anyone who have purchased or have seen one of these? I am interested in one and would like any info one can share.

[Festus2]

x96mnn -
I haven't looked at Keystone's 2013 Cougar 1/2T line up yet but it would appear that they are still carrying on with their "Half Ton Towable" promotion which began a while back.
Being a bit of skeptic, I look upon the Half Ton Towable advertisement the same way I view their "Arctic/Polar Package" promotions -- a clever advertising ploy which gives the impression that these units are good on their own in prolonged periods of sub freezing temperatures when, in fact, they are not. Not even close.

Our 2008 Cougar 278RKS 5th was advertised as Half Ton Towable and it probably could be towed by today's F150 Ford Ecoboost for example but I'm not convinced that it could be safely towed. There is a difference.

Perhaps some of Keystone's smallest (or smaller) TT's and 5vers may fall into this advertised category but when I see that "Half Ton Towable" sticker on the side of any RV, I am reminded of the saying, "I'm from Missouri", even though I'm from Beautiful BC.

[schwalbach]

e purchased a laredo 1/2 ton towable, when we got ot all filled up for a trip I scaled it and I had 4250 on the drives, exactly what my 3/4 ton is rated at!

If you want a 5th wheel you need a 3/4 ton to do it safely!

[rrohrer]

false advertising. I don't have a fifth wheel, but if I upgrade- I'd be getting a 3/4 ton truck first. payload on half ton truck not up to par for that.

[hankpage]

Come on guys .... I've seen a half ton tow the space shuttle. If the 5r is under 300,000 lbs it's no problem. Please let me get by before the next hill. ............... Power is not the problem .. it's payload.

[JeffS]

We have a Cougar 26SAB 5th Wheel which we tow with a 2003 F150 7700. To date we have towed the 5er all over the Smokies, Rockies, & San Juan's with no trouble. Granted, at 12,000 feet I'm down to about 35 mph but we are never in a hurry and it seldom takes more than 15 - 20 minutes to get over a mountain pass. Our opinion is that the journey is 50% of the enjoyment of RVing so why rush. Put on 4,000 plus miles in September on a trip from Michigan to the San Juan Mountains, Colorado with an average of 10.0 mpg.

To be fair I do need to say that my F150 7700 is what Ford used to call the "Light Duty 250". It has the 5.4 V8, 3.73 gearing, heavy duty frame, springs, transmission, and 7 lug wheels - 2,670 Lb. payload.

Since we don't do any boon-docking we travel light. Therefore we don't tow with more than 5 -8 gallons of water and utilize local grocery stores rather than hauling a lot of food.

[Ayotte]

We have a 2012 cougar xlite 26SAB and have been towing it with a 2008Dodge 4wd quad cab and a 5.7 hemi, 3.55rear end. Have no problem towing it and it does not set the truck down much. I did install timbrins on the truck as the rear springs flex quite a bit-these take the sway out. I do tow mostly on fairly level areas but have been in some fairly large hills(not mountains) and have no problem. It will pull the camper a majority of the time in overdrive. I usually average about 13miles/gal. (Canadian) Have towed it for two summers now.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by schwalbach

e purchased a laredo 1/2 ton towable, when we got ot all filled up for a trip I scaled it and I had 4250 on the drives, exactly what my 3/4 ton is rated at!

If you want a 5th wheel you need a 3/4 ton to do it safely!

Well you suffer from owing a truck built before the "ratings Wars", that 12 valve is capable of a lot more with a little work to the injection pump. With a camper package you have one ton springs, most likely doesn't squat at all.
If you were to look at your GAWR for front and rear and compare to your GVWR there would be a sizable difference!

Originally Posted by JeffS

We have a Cougar 26SAB 5th Wheel which we tow with a 2003 F150 7700. To date we have towed the 5er all over the Smokies, Rockies, & San Juan's with no trouble. Granted, at 12,000 feet I'm down to about 35 mph but we are never in a hurry and it seldom takes more than 15 - 20 minutes to get over a mountain pass. Our opinion is that the journey is 50% of the enjoyment of RVing so why rush. Put on 4,000 plus miles in September on a trip from Michigan to the San Juan Mountains, Colorado with an average of 10.0 mpg.

To be fair I do need to say that my F150 7700 is what Ford used to call the "Light Duty 250". It has the 5.4 V8, 3.73 gearing, heavy duty frame, springs, transmission, and 7 lug wheels - 2,670 Lb. payload.

Since we don't do any boon-docking we travel light. Therefore we don't tow with more than 5 -8 gallons of water and utilize local grocery stores rather than hauling a lot of food.

This is towing a 5er correctly with an F150, get the big payload and watch your weight. Your 5er is at max a 10,000#, but more likely about 8,000#, really a nice fit.

[x96mnn]

Thank you all for your responses and there is some good info here.

My main concern is the quality of the camper. My current Sprinter is much smaller but weighs almost the same and that to me suggest the material used is better.

Little more info on the truck. Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 with 5.7L. Airbags in the back for an extra 1000pd payload which I add because I did not like where the 1500 sat for optimal set-up with current camper as close to 1200pds was on the back. The tires are 17" E rated Michelin for a stronger side-wall and less roll as well the break system was upgraded with a size up rotor, pads and calliper all from Bremo to help with breaking. My current camper at the scale is 7626pds loaded up, (Propane full, fresh water full, nothing in the Grey or Black), and I am under my Factory suggested Max Tow. I do realize all my additions does not change my 9100pd max tow nor do I want to put myself in a position where I am under a 1000pd buffer between my camper weight and my max tow. When the truck was stock my goal was to stay 2000pds under but have comfortably towed close to max on a trip helping a friend move seasonal locations after I had completed my upgrades on a very windy day which may have given me a false sense of security.

[SteveC7010]

Airbags can not add payload capacity. They only raise the rear end of the tow vehicle. There are already several extensive threads on the issue.

[Exsailor]

I've always believed there is a difference between what a truck WILL tow and what it SHOULD tow. When people try to sell you something they come down on the former. I hate being underpowered and I don't like my tow shoving me around. Bigger question is what did they take away from that 5th wheel to get it lighter?

[x96mnn]

Exsailor that is exactly what I am concerned about.

Steve I completely agree with your statement and made note of it in my previous comment. Regardless what you do to your truck it does not increase the total tow and even if you feel safe if an accident where to take place and you were not within in the factory standards your on your own! A lot of people do not realize this that if you have an accident and the insurance company investigates and finds you are "Illegal" you will not be insured and possibly charged!

[Javi]

What did they do to lighten the trailer???? Thinner gage metals, plastic fixtures, thinner plywood, less insulation, single pane glass etc. Not that difficult to shave several hundred pounds off if you try. After you get it you'll start adding the weight back 10 or 15 pounds at a time, but you'll really have to watch the axle ratings cause they chopped some of the weight there too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[RedOne]

Look them over. We tow our '13 Cougar X-Lite with our 2011 F150 SCrew 4x4 TowMax. It does a very good job and do not have any problems after thousands of miles. Yes, it is a little smaller than the Montanas and Raptors but my wife and I don't need one of those big dogs. We have many of the luxuries that others have also. 3 slides, flat panel TV, 15K ac, 1 fresh, 2 greys & 1 black tank, Mor-Rite Suspension, Aluminum wheels, All the packages available and more.

[SkiSmuggs]

You have to do your homework, mostly on configuring the half-ton truck and some on your expectations of the fifth wheel you get. I got my 2011 EcoBoost before the HD Payload package was available, but got the Max Tow option to add 500 lbs of payload. Then I added SuperSprings and plan to switch to the Ford HD Payload shocks in the spring. While I realize this does not change the factory load ratings, it does some of what Ford does to get the higher ratings.
3000 miles of towing have been very comfortable and it handles so much better than the travel trailer did. I don't load heavy items in the basement, the fresh water tank is at the rear of the fiver, I max the truck tire pressure and check it daily. Some say the brakes can't do the job, but the truck is rated to tow 11K and I tow 8.5K, plus the trailer has its own brakes. I keep my speed to 60 mph and maintain a safe distance from vehicles ahead. I have never felt my truck was under powered or overloaded.
My next truck will have the HD Payload with Max Tow, but I don't expect that to be for 8-10 years.

[Wayne]

We have the Cougar HC 299RKS & our TV is an 08 GMC CC 2500; however at least 3 owners in our Cougar HC social group use a half ton as TV. Two are Tundra's & one is an F150 Ecoboost. They all seem to be pleased with their towing capabilities.

[tundraman67]

I have one of those wonderful space shuttle pulling 5.7L tundras and I tow a 2012 Cougar Xlite 29RES with it. I don't believe that I can pull the space shuttle, but it does pull the 5ver really well. I live in Florida so the largest hill we go up is probably my driveway - lol. I did put airbags on the back because it squatted a little, but I don't think that added capacity. I took my setup to the scales and feel comfortable with the weight. If I was taking longer trips I would probably look at a larger truck due to gas mileage, but we stay in the state and enjoy our home away from home. Good Luck and happy Rving.

[schwalbach]

To clarify my earl;ier post, I can tow it no problem as far as power is concerned with the diesel, most of the time even in overdrive.

My concern is the pin weight and the axle weights, I have a 8800 gvw with camper package 3/4 ton truck, when the trailer is fully loaded I am running at about 4200 lbs an axle, now if you take and look at the axle ratings I am close to the ratings for ALL axles with a slight margin of error.

For the 1/2 ton people doing the same, and those who add extra springs or air bags consider this. The axle is rated fr the weakes link, IE if you have tires that only can carry 3500 lbs but add all kinds of extra springs to get the springs to carry more than that you still have a 3500 lb axle, bearings etc, even though you beefed up the springs. Imagine if you got in an accident and a lawyer figures that out, does not matter who is at fault you were overweight and he will take yo tot he cleaners!

My advice to ANYONE, is load your camper like you normally would, scale each axle on a certifiable scale like truckers use and find out where you are at. Best 12.00 you will spend!

I think most of you 1/2 ton people would realize that you are a safety hazard, with inadequete tires, brakes, bearings etc and should have bought a 3/4 ton truck!

enough ranting on my part, I just get upset when a truck won't carry the load and people beef up the suspension and forget that it is only as good as the weakest link (tires, bearing, brakes, axle rating).

Many 1/2 ton trucks have same engine as 3/4 ton trucks, so engine and trans many times are not what makes a 1/2 ton able to tow, it is the complete package!


Steer axle:4320
Drive axle:4280
Front traielr axle:3700
Rear Trailer axle:3500
Total weight of : 15800

[JRTJH]

You're right, it's the complete package. Not the badge on the fender. Many still consider trucks as "half ton, 3/4 ton and one ton" That simply isn't true any more. In fact, it hasn't been true at least since the 70's when I bought my first Dodge "Camper Special" That truck, a 3/4 ton was available in two models, a Camper 7500 and a Camper 9000. BOTH were 3/4 ton. Imagine that, a 3/4 ton (1500 lb) difference in payload on 2 models of the same 3/4 ton trucks. Oh, and mine had a gas 360 engine with a 4 barrel carb.

Why does this matter? Well, my HALF TON F150 has essentially the same payload as that Dodge camper Special 7500. My HALF TON tows more, is rated to stop more, had bigger brakes than that 3/4 ton and ironically, a stronger frame as well.

I think (just my opinion) that we need to get away from the "BADGE SYNDROME" of how we look at capabilities and consider the way a truck is rated with the equipment built into the specific truck. There are F150 (half ton trucks) with payload packages of 980 lbs and there are F150's with payload packages of 3120 lbs. BOTH have the same badge on the fender!!!!! The difference in is how the trucks are built.

There are "half ton trucks" that have bigger payloads than 3/4 ton trucks. F150=3120lbs, F250=3020 lbs.

The F150 GCWR for fifth wheel towing is rated from 13,300 to 17,100. The difference is in how the trucks are equipped.

There are F250's with GCWR ratings from 19,000 to 22,500 (gas engine). The difference is in how the trucks are equipped.

I maintain that towing a properly sized trailer (whether it is a conventional travel trailer or a fifth wheel) with a properly equipped half ton truck is just as safe as towing a properly sized trailer with a 3/4 ton truck. In fact, if the F150 is the stronger of the two trucks, it may be safer, regardless of the badge on the fender. We all need to get away from this "half ton/three quarter ton" name calling. It's not about the name, it's about how the truck is equipped and what the trailer specifications are. NOT what the factory sticks on the fender, but what the factory builds into the truck.

Categorically putting them all in the same "limiting factor" bunch by looking at the badge on the fender is simply not being objective and doesn't define anything clearly. It's akin to saying "men can't fly" while we watch an airplane overhead. "Thinking one thing and saying another."

[SkiSmuggs]

JRTJH,
Amen, brother. Very well put.