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Old 01-17-2017, 04:16 PM   #21
itat
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Now is a good time to hit the RV shows and walk through as many different brands as you can. You'll get a feel for which brands have acceptable quality, fit and finish and which ones are poor. Also try to determine which manufacturer has the best after sales support because like others said they all have good days and bad days.

Once you are comfortable with 2-3 brands, find the floorplan that best suits you and that your tow vehicle can handle.

After that, look for a dealer with a great reputation for after sales service. IMO, I wouldn't hesitate to travel a long distance to buy if the local dealer has a poor or mediocre reputation. You should get a price of around 35% off the MSRP.

Finally, due a thorough PDI. That should take at least 2 hours, maybe 3. Don't let anyone rush you. Make sure to test all equipment, appliances and systems. Make a list of everything that's not 100% to your liking and don't hand over your money until everything is satisfactory. There may be some very minor things that you'd be comfortable not having fixed before accepting the unit.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:36 PM   #22
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Remember what PDI stands for: "PRE" delivery inspection. YOU are in control, not the sales lady, not the finance manager, not the tech in the shop. Be polite, be concise, and take your time. Ask lots of questions and if your PDI guy/girl doesn't know the answer to most of them then send them packing and get someone who actually knows the answers. Keep in mind that you will be dealing with these people a couple months down the road so the "polite" part is important.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:23 PM   #23
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Remember what PDI stands for: "PRE" delivery inspection. YOU are in control, not the sales lady, not the finance manager, not the tech in the shop. Be polite, be concise, and take your time. Ask lots of questions and if your PDI guy/girl doesn't know the answer to most of them then send them packing and get someone who actually knows the answers. Keep in mind that you will be dealing with these people a couple months down the road so the "polite" part is important.

^^^What he said. When you go thru the PDI if the person doesn't know the answer to ALL your questions; if he generalizes, if they reference "should", "could", "most", "I think".....tell them to get the person that "knows" the answers. When we bought this last one we had to insist until they sent their "lead" person to go through it....they wanted to send a "tech". That didn't work for us because we filmed 2-3 hrs of the PDI.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:08 PM   #24
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A little clarification

A PDI is inded a PRE delivery inspection. Should be performed by a service tech PRIOR to delivery to the customer. When the customer shows up to take delivery that process is known as a Walk Through.
IF the selling dealership is doing the job correctly, there is an extensive checklist that is filled out and signed by the Tech that did it. Most manufacturers are including a checklist as part of the warranty application, and the dealership and buyer have to "check the boxes" before it is accepted. So maybe the tech that did the PDI IS the best person to do the walk.

The PDI checklist that be printed out from this site is fairly comprehensive, but not everything the dealership is required to do. Manometer test (low pressure gas leak) is one example, verifying correct LP line pressure is another. if the dealership is doing a proper PDI, any defects will be identified and addressed.

OP: Any and all brands have issues, and like most any forum, more people will post problems and frustrations than the "happy campers". Take your time, choose your unit and choose your dealer. When your happy with both, get that thing and get out camping!!!
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:39 PM   #25
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A PDI is inded a PRE delivery inspection. Should be performed by a service tech PRIOR to delivery to the customer. When the customer shows up to take delivery that process is known as a Walk Through.
IF the selling dealership is doing the job correctly, there is an extensive checklist that is filled out and signed by the Tech that did it. Most manufacturers are including a checklist as part of the warranty application, and the dealership and buyer have to "check the boxes" before it is accepted. So maybe the tech that did the PDI IS the best person to do the walk.

The PDI checklist that be printed out from this site is fairly comprehensive, but not everything the dealership is required to do. Manometer test (low pressure gas leak) is one example, verifying correct LP line pressure is another. if the dealership is doing a proper PDI, any defects will be identified and addressed.

OP: Any and all brands have issues, and like most any forum, more people will post problems and frustrations than the "happy campers". Take your time, choose your unit and choose your dealer. When your happy with both, get that thing and get out camping!!!
Not to be argumentative but I guess the "PDI" could happen at most any time prior to delivery to the customer...IMO. In our case we did receive the dealer PDI punchlist from the service manager, prior to sale, to show us they had gone through the trailer. After we signed the paperwork, prior to delivery to us, we went though OUR PDI, or walk thru, with the lead tech on the lot at the dealership. The guy they sent originally to do it didn't know anything about much of anything it seemed. The one we got after insisting on someone knowledgeable, the lead tech as it turned out, was also the one that had done the dealer PDI on our unit!! All that to say that to me pre-delivery is anytime prior to the delivery of the unit to me. If it dealt only with the sale I think I would call it pre-sale inspection and post sale inspection...but I'm pretty dense
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:42 PM   #26
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We bought our Cougar last January at the Cleveland RV show. It was built and delivered from the manufacturer in late March. We spent 55 nights in it this spring/summer/fall. While not completely trouble free, it has been mostly trouble free. All issues were small enough that I could take care of them in my driveway. We've been very happy with our unit and would not hesitate to purchase another!

We went to the RV show again this year (a couple of weeks ago) and didn't find anything that we liked better than our Cougar. As others have mentioned, complete a very thorough PDI and then enjoy your camper. That's all you can do, with any brand.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:42 PM   #27
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Sourdough: your not being argumentative at all in my opinion. Sometimes "terms" get interpreted differently. Like calling a trailer a camper.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:19 AM   #28
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Structurally my keystone is tight and comfortable. All my problems where dealer inflected . There fairly easy to repair if you search threads here for tech information. Ill be visiting the largest rv show in the country this week end looking for new designs. I expect just more wisel and bells .
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:43 AM   #29
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We certainly had our share of problems in the 1st 18 months and Keystone were not very helpful but fortunately our dealer did stand by the product at their cost. Would we buy another Keystone product? yes we would they have good designs but unfortunately the quality control is not up to par. My advise to anyone is to spend lots of time inspecting and checking the operation of everything prior to handing over the cheque. Having said all that we have now spent 3 winters as snowbirds towing the trailer from Canada to California with very few problems hope this helps your decision.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:32 PM   #30
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We certainly had our share of problems in the 1st 18 months and Keystone were not very helpful but fortunately our dealer did stand by the product at their cost. Would we buy another Keystone product? yes we would they have good designs but unfortunately the quality control is not up to par. My advise to anyone is to spend lots of time inspecting and checking the operation of everything prior to handing over the cheque. Having said all that we have now spent 3 winters as snowbirds towing the trailer from Canada to California with very few problems hope this helps your decision.
Have had our 2016 Cougar for 13 months and many nights spent in it. Lots of miles pulled as well. Only 1 problem with the furnace, Atwood was contacted and sent a mobile tech to the CG. One problem with the coach that Keystone took care of, a minor part replaced. Will be upgrading next year and would like another Cougar but no current floor plan is to our liking. Maybe a 2018 model?
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:51 PM   #31
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Airstream
Bison Coach
Breckenridge
CrossRoads RV
Cruiser RV
Dutchmen RV
DRV
Entegra
Heartland RV
Jayco, Inc
Keystone RV
KZ RV
Livin Lite RV
Redwood RV
Thor Motor Coach (combined Four Winds International and Damon Motor Coach)

Above is the list of Thor Industries products. Obviously a 5th wheel is not like a motorhome nor like an Airstream but when products are very similar I would bet that same techniques, products and components are used across all. Especially when the company is traded on Wall Street, like Thor is and with bean counters watching every move.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:08 PM   #32
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While Thor owns these companies, it is my understanding Thor lets each subsidiary run its own business.


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Old 01-20-2017, 09:21 AM   #33
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While Thor owns these companies, it is my understanding Thor lets each subsidiary run its own business.


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I agree, Thor lets them "run" the companies separate but I would be extremely surprised if they are treated as separate companies when it comes to structural design (engineering), purchasing and things like that. I am a Technical Designer and have been in the engineering field for over 40 years. Back in my early years you would see difference in sister companies. A good example is where at one time Chevy, Pontiac,Oldsmobile etc. use to have their own engines and each had their own distinct product line and development. Competition and the advent of accountants and stock prices have forced companies to be as lean as possible. The company I work for, we used to have several different distinct companies all completely self sufficient. Now we are just one big happy family cross engineering and designing between many products. And I am betting that's the way it is with Thor. The only thing I believe you are at the mercy of is how experienced and how skilled the workers at each individual assembly plant are.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:06 AM   #34
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You are most probably correct about the companies sharing engineering data/knowledge. It is much more economical that way. What I find interesting are the subtle differences between the brands when you look at the brochures. I know there are some very visible differences between my Passport and a similar Jayco. Since Jayco was bought by Thor in 2016 I'm interested in seeing if some of those differences go away in the next year or so.


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Old 01-20-2017, 04:57 PM   #35
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One of the things I found interesting is the Jaycos now have 12" frames, up from 10". The better Thor 5th wheels have the heavier, larger frames.
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:20 AM   #36
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I am embarrased about the 15" tire they put on the 9730 lbs 5er I purchased. Had blowout on first trip within 1st month of owning it! Now shopping for new tires.....not happy!

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Old 01-28-2017, 07:56 AM   #37
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montana's like other 5th wheels DO have issues. I could tell you tales of our trailers and their replacement of our trailer.
but, my advice to you, if this is your first trailer is get a USED one. yes, a used one.

see how that goes.
regardless, if you buy a new trailer, expect to bring your trailer back to your dealer a number of times. so, be close to the dealer you purchase from.
also, plan on going to the montana fall rally in goshen, montana does help those who have issues.
and are you on the montana rv forum???
good luck
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:00 PM   #38
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We have had a 38’ Keystone Everest with three slides and a washer dryer combo for 13 years. We put somewhere between 75,000 to 100,000 miles on it traveling to all 48 connected states and 4 CDN provinces. It has the original 6000# axles and attached assemblies. The axles have never required alignment.

All 5 of the original USA made Goodyear Marathons failed. We moved up in load capacity with the replacements to help eliminate the tread separations. The originals provided borderline load capacity. They were ST235/80R16D, Goodyear no longer makes the LRD.

We never boondock. The original battery lasted 6 years, so did the 2nd one. Our upgraded 15K A/C never failed. We had to replace the landing gear motor twice (Put them in myself). We also upgraded it’s 30 amp circuit breaker to 50 amps. Our slide seals are original. We replace the sealing tape on top of the slides every 3 years. We only had one problem with a Keystone dealer. It was about replacing the light above the kitchen sink. I ended-up ordering one from the factory. When we decided to replace our kitchen sink we went to a dealer location and looked at sinks in new models. We picked-out the one we wanted and that dealer got it shipped to his location at no extra cost.

One time when we had to replace a fender because of a blowout we went to a dealer. That dealer ordered the fender and had it shipped directly to our site. I think our dealer approach is more successful because we go there humble and say please. Demanding things just turns them off. Even though you may know better just let them think they know everything.

We broke a couple of spring shackles with tight turns. I had my brother-in-law make me some out of heavier material and have never broken another one and I now have spares.

We had to replace the propane heater’s igniter once. After you figure out how to get to it it’s not hard to change. Nothing in our water system failed. Check valves and pump still working as normal.

Our kitchen countertop had to be replaced because of delimitation. It wasn’t properly sealed. Took them 2 days to replace it with a new one. They (dealer) provided us with a FHU site while the work was done.

All-in-all, our Everest is very durable and long lasting.

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Old 01-28-2017, 01:14 PM   #39
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So I have been looking for three months now at upgrading to either a lower end 5ver or a high end hitch TT. Somewhere in the 35000 to 38000 range which is my budget. I really cannot find a Fver in that range I am satisfied with. I have narrowed it down to a Cougar 33 MLS or a Rockwood 8328BS. I currently own a Keystone and am really having a hard time deciding. Any opinions from the group would be very appreciated.


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Old 01-28-2017, 01:40 PM   #40
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So I have been looking for three months now at upgrading to either a lower end 5ver or a high end hitch TT. Somewhere in the 35000 to 38000 range which is my budget. I really cannot find a Fver in that range I am satisfied with. I have narrowed it down to a Cougar 33 MLS or a Rockwood 8328BS. I currently own a Keystone and am really having a hard time deciding. Any opinions from the group would be very appreciated.


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I actually went to my dealer to buy a Rockwood 5er. While there a Cougar 5er was delivered. We were 1st inside after a battery was attached and opened the 3 slides. Never looked at the Rockwood again! The base Cougar had more than the Rockwood had quality wise plus more amenity or comfort wise as well The Cougar 303 RLS came loaded including auto-level. Only thing missing was 2nd AC and slide toppers. Paid very little more for so much more. Lots of room and tons of storage in 35'. Best decision made! The only 'cons' are no Keystone rallies and never a rep on the forums like FR has. Just those 2 items but they cost Keystone a ton of PR.
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