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11-12-2017, 06:58 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 409
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Safety chains - To X or not to X
Among other things I learned in the military . . . was to cross the chains in order to form a chain cradle in the event of primary connection failure. My last trailer had a 1/4" steel plate with slightly separated chain connections points similar to this:
That type of connection was not separated by much, but did provide some sense to the crossing of the chains.
All the new trailers appear to have a single loop of steel that both chains connect to. The chains are only separated by the thickness of the chain itself. Besides the fact that the manufacturers created a wonderful single point of failure, crossing the chains just doesn't seem to make any engineering sense to me with this connection.
My Andersen hitch compounds this problem with possible interference. This is the only question I have ever asked Andersen, that didn't produce a good answer.
This trailer only has a piece of sheet metal where the old trailer had 1/4" of steel, so moving them is difficult.
Thoughts on whether crossing provides any benefit with this connection regardless of hitch type; and/or ways to avoid interference with the Andersen?
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11-12-2017, 07:11 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
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I think that technically... the safety chains should be under that dojigger , but I can see where that would be problematic...
The idea of safety chains is to catch the tongue and not allow it to dig in and to allow some control to safely get the rig to a stop...
Can't see that happening with that rig... Good luck
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2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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11-12-2017, 07:17 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
I think that technically... the safety chains should be under that dojigger , but I can see where that would be problematic...
The idea of safety chains is to catch the tongue and not allow it to dig in and to allow some control to safely get the rig to a stop...
Can't see that happening with that rig... Good luck
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Yes, I tried both under and over. I am not sure I have a pic of the other method. This appeared to be the better of the two, but I think I will have to move the connection points.
I have doubts that even an equalizer would be kept off the ground.
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11-12-2017, 08:00 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
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Even if the chains are crossed the chain length needs to be the correct length (along with the brake wire) to keep the tongue from touching the surface. I think the reality is that trailers very rarely disconnect, so being concerned about this aspect of towing is better placed elsewhere...like with tires and wetbolts.
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
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11-12-2017, 08:37 AM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert185
Even if the chains are crossed the chain length needs to be the correct length (along with the brake wire) to keep the tongue from touching the surface. I think the reality is that trailers very rarely disconnect, so being concerned about this aspect of towing is better placed elsewhere...like with tires and wetbolts.
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Completely agree. I don't recall ever hearing of a trailer breaking away from a tow vehicle that wasn't human error, i.e. not being latched, incorrect ball size etch. Google trailer accidents and you will find many photos of trailers wrecked behind a TV while still hitched.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-12-2017, 10:58 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
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My dad showed and told me the same about crossing the chains. I do it unless it looks like the chains are not free during a tight turn. On this TT I do not cross them, my boat I do.
2 points as examples. I once had the front u joint break on the rear drive line at highway speed. It dropped and dug into the asphalt. The truck angled up, it felt like 90 degrees. I could see the asphalt thru the windshield. Than it dropped back onto all four tires and bucked a couple more times. After I got stopped and checked what happened. The driveline had cut a groove into the road but, bounced out of it several times.
While on patrol, as normal I was speeding in the left lane watching traffic as I approach and pass in the other lanes. I noted a pickup pulling a utility trailer, it had some stuff in the trailer and was bouncing a lot. I pulled in behind it, radioed the traffic stop and as I did the tongue came up unlatched, I could see it. We were in a 65 speed zone and likely going that fast. The tongue dropped to the pavement, hit it and bounced back up. The siren and police lights went on. Before the vehicle stopped the tongue kept bouncing maybe off the pavement. I did not go back to look. The safety chains held. The trailer hit the pickup as they stopped. This trailer did not have brakes. I cannot remember if the chains were crossed or not. I never seen a RV become unlatched. Seen a bunch of crashes with RVs and some TT with trucks over turned, never once were any unlatched. Seen a utility trailer break the ball off during the crash and that tongue went thru the tailgate.
What the rv trailer will do if becomes unlatched? I do not know. Someone on here may have seen it happen or the aftermath. Even in training we never seen any.
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2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
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11-12-2017, 06:47 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 409
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Brother-in-law to the rescue! While he was adding the 2" welds to my Andersen frame brackets . . . He bent up some 1/2" steel rod and attached them permanently to each side of the frame. The original loop appears to be 3/8".
He is awesome!
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11-13-2017, 09:21 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
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That does look much better..
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2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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11-13-2017, 08:55 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 782
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I also have the Andersen and have always crossed the chains with no problem. Just never thought about it because I've always done it. But now that I've studied your picture I can see that it really does no good. If the trailer did come unhitched it wouldn't drop on the safety chains. But with the way the Andersen hitch's with the ball and the under plate I don't see how it would ever come unhitched unless you were in a catastrophic wreck or roll over. Then crossed chains or not wouldn't make any difference. I'm going to stop crossing the chains on mine now, it will make it easier.
__________________
Earl
2007 33.5' Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel used for full-timing for several years--now sold
2011 Hideout 23RKSWE that we now use for poking around local parks
2007 Chevy 3/4 ton diesel with Prodigy Brake Control
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11-13-2017, 09:00 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 782
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On further thought, the safety chains on the Andersen probably aren't even needed, except that it is a legal thing. If somehow the ball became unhitched the trailer wouldn't drop down because of the equalizing chains. The only way it could drop is if the hitch bounced off the ball and the equalizing chains both failed...all at the same time. I can't see that ever happening.
__________________
Earl
2007 33.5' Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel used for full-timing for several years--now sold
2011 Hideout 23RKSWE that we now use for poking around local parks
2007 Chevy 3/4 ton diesel with Prodigy Brake Control
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11-14-2017, 02:37 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Pennsville
Posts: 231
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Don't be so sure of them not coming off. One of the main reasons that trailers drop is improper ball mounting. And in some cases a dry rough connection. When turning this can loosen the ball and without knowing the nut can drop away if the trip is long enough to go without looking. Then it can certainly pop off.
Also X chaining when your chains allow it is a certain. It is better to catch it and destroy your own bumper than to let is go into a skid and kill someone else.
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2018 Passport 2810bh Granite
TV 2014 Ram 1500 Bighorn 4x4 crew cab
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11-15-2017, 07:51 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlzach
Don't be so sure of them not coming off. One of the main reasons that trailers drop is improper ball mounting. And in some cases a dry rough connection. When turning this can loosen the ball and without knowing the nut can drop away if the trip is long enough to go without looking. Then it can certainly pop off.
Also X chaining when your chains allow it is a certain. It is better to catch it and destroy your own bumper than to let is go into a skid and kill someone else.
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You are totally correct...unless talking about the Andersen. With it when you make a turn the cap, ball and lower plate actually turns so there is no way the nut can come loose. It is what makes the Andersen unique.
__________________
Earl
2007 33.5' Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel used for full-timing for several years--now sold
2011 Hideout 23RKSWE that we now use for poking around local parks
2007 Chevy 3/4 ton diesel with Prodigy Brake Control
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11-15-2017, 08:33 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theeyres
You are totally correct...unless talking about the Andersen. With it when you make a turn the cap, ball and lower plate actually turns so there is no way the nut can come loose. It is what makes the Andersen unique.
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"nut" what nut? There is no ball nut on an Andersen. There is a pin and a snap ring.
The ball is never coming off. The hitch could be undone by a problem with the receiver pin, though.
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11-16-2017, 02:16 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Pennsville
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmutt
"nut" what nut? There is no ball nut on an Andersen. There is a pin and a snap ring.
The ball is never coming off. The hitch could be undone by a problem with the receiver pin, though.
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I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about Anderson only.
To thoes who don't have Anderson it's possible. Check your ball, but. Lol
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
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2018 Passport 2810bh Granite
TV 2014 Ram 1500 Bighorn 4x4 crew cab
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11-16-2017, 04:43 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Saratoga Springs,
Posts: 1,131
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After having a bolt on the coupler, not the ball break and the car trailer (with a high buck street rod on it) tongue drop to my crossed chains as I was taught in the army, will always cross the chains. No damage. Dug out a bolt and heavy washer to do a jury rig and get off the interstate and was back on my way to buy a new coupler. The Anderson will work just fine but there is no guarantee that the trailer coupler wont fail and drop the tongue
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11-16-2017, 07:32 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave W
After having a bolt on the coupler, not the ball break and the car trailer (with a high buck street rod on it) tongue drop to my crossed chains as I was taught in the army, will always cross the chains. No damage. Dug out a bolt and heavy washer to do a jury rig and get off the interstate and was back on my way to buy a new coupler. The Anderson will work just fine but there is no guarantee that the trailer coupler wont fail and drop the tongue
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Bolt, as in an adjustable height coupler bolt? Was it a grade 8 bolt that failed?
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
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11-16-2017, 10:44 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Saratoga Springs,
Posts: 1,131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert185
Bolt, as in an adjustable height coupler bolt? Was it a grade 8 bolt that failed?
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No clue - the original was .... whatever was supplied OEM on the trailer. What I used to get off the highway - whatever 'spare part' I had. The replacement coupler ... whatever was supplied by the mfr..
My guess is that the coupler bolt was a common Gr 5 ( maybe) carriage bolt
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