NO POWER AC nor ceiling fan!!!

RAWKNG · 10-03-2014, 01:36 PM

I left my 2010 fuzion touring II for a few hours with the ceiling fan and both Air conditioning units running to cool off yesterdays heat. When I returned the ceiling fan and ACs were off and will not turn back on.

I noticed the gfci in the kitchen outlet button also will not stay in and the outlet is no longer working. Could this be related to the AC and ceiling fan?

The breakers are not tripped but im about to rip off the panel and look in the back. basically the entire left side of the breaker panel is not working but the switches are all in the on position. All of the fuses are fine.

Any ideas? Thank you!

**JRTJH** · 10-03-2014, 02:03 PM

It sounds like one of the legs of power isn't coming into the trailer. Have you tried to reset the power circuit breaker at the campground pole? I'd check for good output there before tearing into the camper. Sounds more like something "other than the camper" since you've had no problems with it prior and essentially nothing has changed 'inside". If it were only A/C's, I'd think possibly the thermostat, but the ceiling fan isn't controlled by the thermostat. It does sound like one leg of the input power.

Ram189 · 10-03-2014, 05:03 PM

I would turn everything off and check all the breakers inside and out on the pole and then turn one thing on at a time and see what happens. Sounds like it is a power problem like last post said.

RAWKNG · 10-03-2014, 07:36 PM

Thanks for the tips guys but so far no luck.

Ive switched poles and still no air conditioning and no fan. The breakers are all in the "ON" position both inside and out.

Heres where Im at.....The breaker board lists each breaker in this order

GFI-AC1 FAN-AC2 main main fridge microwave etc.

The Red indicates the appliances that are not working. The black indicates appliances that are fine. my questions at this point is can the breakers be broken? and is there a GFI down the electrical stream that is in charge of protecting the breakers in RED.

Thanks for any info! trying to tackle this tonight before tomorrows scorcher in ojia california.

bobbecky · 10-03-2014, 07:51 PM

Remember to switch those breakers fully to the off position, then back to the on position, that will reset the breaker if it has tripped. Also, as was suggested, do the same thing to the breaker on the pedestal you have plugged into outside. Check your plug connection on the pedestal also, that it is fully inserted into the outlet. If you have a volt meter, you can check for power at the pedestal too. And, yes, it is possible to have a failed breaker, and it would need to be replaced, but this is highly unlikely unless it was the one on the power pedestal.

**JRTJH** · 10-03-2014, 07:53 PM

To answer your question, no there is no GFI inline with your input power as wired from the factory. If you (or a previous owner) has installed a surge protector/current protector, then that device may be faulty, but nothing from the factory is built into the main distribution panel. The only GFI protection is located in the 120 volt outlets which are wired to either one or two GFI devices which are built into the outlets, usually located in the kitchen and the bathroom. They protect a number of outlets, but not the A/C's, etc.

The way you list your circuit breakers: GFI-AC1 FAN-AC2 main main it looks like you have lost the left leg of 120 VAC. If the right main and the circuit breakers on the right side of the panel are operational, then the problem is likely to be either the input power to the power distribution panel, a faulty main breaker or a wiring connection issue either at the pole or within the camper.

First, I'd get a test light or multimeter and check both legs at the campground connection. You should have 120 VAC on the left and right legs when tested to ground/neutral and 240 VAC when tested between legs 1 and 2. If that is good, then do the same test on the "trailer end" of the power cord. The readings should be the same as at the power pole. If that is good, leave the trailer unplugged and go inside, remove the cover from the power distribution panel, go back outside, plug in the trailer and then go inside and measure from each leg (measure at the silver bar where the main circuit breaker is installed) to ground and you should have 120 VAC. If you have power at that point on both legs, it's probably the main breaker that's not operational. Lowe's or HD both should have a replacement circuit breaker for less than $10.

RAWKNG · 10-03-2014, 08:19 PM

Great information thank you! I am at starbucks on my laptop for wifi (if you cant tell im a newb and just bought my 5th wheel a few days ago to live in while im in Grad school). I am going to try this. I have a newb question. does the main on the left supply power to the left leg and the right same for right side?

**JRTJH** · 10-03-2014, 08:22 PM

Yes it does. That's why I'm thinking it's likely a power problem either in the campground plug, the power cable connectors or in the main distribution panel/circuit breaker. L1 is the input to the left side and that's what is out.

RAWKNG · 10-03-2014, 10:54 PM

Okay so I've tried two separate campground power outlets, the cable is brand new and tests fine with the voltmeter....

On the breaker panel I'm getting readings of 120v from Main 2 and all breakers to the right of it. All breakers from Main 1 and left of that are reading 0 vac. I'll head to Home Depot tomorrow for a new main breaker. Should I get new breakers for the others just in case or will replacing the main likely be sufficient?

I'm also wondering what could have caused this, just an old/bad breaker or is it the fact that I was running too many components from a 30amp camp outlet. Does a 50amp capable 5th wheel allow me to run multiple appliances regardless of the campsite plugs?

Thanks again for the help it's much appreciated!

Knucklehead · 10-04-2014, 04:53 AM

the 30 amp camp outlet is your problem wait for others to chime in on this before buying a new breaker

Festus2 · 10-04-2014, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAWKNG

. Does a 50amp capable 5th wheel allow me to run multiple appliances regardless of the campsite plugs?

!

Just because your 5th wheel is wired for 50A, that doesn't necessarily mean that you will be able to run multiple appliances at the same time. If, for example, you are plugged into a 30A circuit (using an adapter) then you will be restricted to a load of 30A and will not be able to run several appliances at once. You can't squeeze 50A out of a 30A circuit!

Plugging your 50A capable RV into a 50A pedestal will allow you to operate more "appliances" at the same time - providing you stay within the 50A limit.

**JRTJH** · 10-04-2014, 07:10 AM

AHHHHH!!!

I'm not sure why I didn't ask the "obvious" at first, but I made the assumption that you were plugged into a 50 amp campground plug since in your first post you said, "I left my 2010 fuzion touring II for a few hours with the ceiling fan and both Air conditioning units running to cool off yesterdays heat."

If you were plugged into a 50 Amp outlet with a 50 Amp cord, then you should have 120VAC on L1 and L2. If you are plugged into a 30 Amp campground outlet, depending on the way your adapter is wired, you could have 0 VAC on one leg or the other (with only one leg connected to the 30 amp supply) or you could have 120VAC on both legs, but at reduced capacity. It depends on how your adapter is wired.

It's puzzling that you say they were both working when you left, but not when you returned. I can't suggest that it's the adapter or the campground circuit as you indicate they "were working when I left". That would indicate that both L1 and L2 had power initially, but now, with the same adapter and power cord L1 is 0VAC. That would indicate there may be damage caused by the connection. ???

Air Conditioners are "sensitive" to low voltage conditions and often will malfunction when forced to operate on low voltage. Long periods of operation at less than 105 volts can (not always will) damage the compressor/fan motors and cause them to fail. The same is true for a ceiling fan motor (120 VAC type).

So, the "puzzle" becomes more confusing with the knowledge that you were operating the system on a 30 Amp circuit. I don't believe you would trip the main 50 Amp breaker and probably not trip the individual CB's with that power source, so it goes back to a "low voltage condition" which might have damaged both your air conditioners and your ceiling fan because of the reduced power into the camper.

I'd suggest you look much further into the situation. You may have damaged your A/C's and/or you may just "not have realized they weren't working when you left and have never had any voltage on L1 with the current adapter.

Puzzling? I'd suggest you get someone who is familiar with 30 Amp/50 Amp RV supply systems to give you a hand. It may be that you have no problems, just need a different campground source, or it could mean that you "burned something up" by trying to run too much stuff on too little power.

Either way, I wouldn't take a chance on just replacing the main circuit breaker until you know you've got an adequate and acceptable input power source and no damage inside the RV.

Good Luck !!!

RAWKNG · 10-04-2014, 01:09 PM

On my way to HD any other ideas?

RAWKNG · 10-05-2014, 09:34 PM

Great Replies guys thanks! (I also just realized that there were great replies i hadnt read before and then I, like an idiot, asked for any ideas on my way to Home depot) anyhow...

I replaced the circuit breaker and still no luck. I then went on the hunt and found that within the Automatic transfer swith there were two badly burned wires! I went to the hardware store and bought the correct gauge wires and replaced the damaged wires. Now I am receiving full power

......and I am definately not switching on the two AC units at the same time.

My question is that isnt there a surge protector to avoid this danger? I cant imagine that if someone (myself, wife, cat) accidentally switched on the other AC it immediately causes an electrical fire?!!! wth

I am assuming that there is some sort of surge protector was not doing its job or whats the deal here?

Festus2 · 10-05-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAWKNG

I went to the hardware store and bought the correct gauge wires and replaced the damaged wires. Now I am receiving full power

......and I am definately not switching on the two AC units at the same time.

My question is that isnt there a surge protector to avoid this danger? I cant imagine that if someone (myself, wife, cat) accidentally switched on the other AC it immediately causes an electrical fire?!!! wth

I am assuming that there is some sort of surge protector was not doing its job or whats the deal here?

If your RV is properly wired for 50A and you are hooked up to 50A at the pedestal, you should be able to run 2 AC's at the same time. If you were running two at the same time as you had a number of other high draw appliances on (toaster, microwave, HW heater, heater, etc., there may have been an overload in which case the circuit breaker should have tripped either in the RV or at the pedestal. Since your repair, have you tried running two? If there is an issue with running two, there is an electrical problem elsewhere in this circuit.

There is no surge protector that "comes with the RV" so you are without this kind of electrical protection. Campground electricity is not without its faults and there is no protection - other than breakers - at the pedestal.

There are a number of different types/models of surge protectors available that you can purchase - some are portable and some are hard-wired. I'd look at a hard-wired protector if I were you. It can be a DYI project if you have the skills, confidence and knowledge of electrical components and equipment. It's not that complicated but if you are hesitant to DIY, get a "pro" to do it for you.

At present, protection in the RV is through breakers (110v ac) and fuses (12v DC) found in your distribution panel.

RAWKNG · 10-06-2014, 04:26 PM

Im definately going to look into surge protectors because as I have seen and with waht you are saying is that the breakers is the only protection that comes stock in these rigs. The issue with my rig was that I had an electrical fire in the wires that run electricity before they even get to the breakers in the panel.

I find it hard to believe that something so simple as turning on two appliances at the same time will create an electrical fire that could burn down the entire unit....Maybe even the entire forest it is camped in. too much? lesser things have happened.

jsmith948 · 10-07-2014, 03:46 AM

To the topic of surge protectors. We have a 30amp Progressive Industries of the plug-in variety. The other day, after a small shower, we experienced a power surge ( around here it is so dry and dusty that dirt builds up on the transformers and insulators. If it only rains lightly, the dust gets wet and then tbe transformer goes flash/bang). the surge protector we have (had) is fried. Seems the plug-in type are good for one event only. Going to go with a hardwired EMS. The DW was washing a load of clothes at the time and the surge took out the CCU on her front loading washer

jtyphoid · 10-07-2014, 07:22 AM

All surge protectors have limits, even the hard-wired ones. I recommend checking the specifications before making a decision, assuming that you can find comparable specs.

jsmith948 · 10-07-2014, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtyphoid

All surge protectors have limits, even the hard-wired ones. I recommend checking the specifications before making a decision, assuming that you can find comparable specs.

Ahh! Could be that the surge we experienced exceeded the joule rating of the surge protector? If that is the case, then spending 3X for a hard wired unit won't do any good unless it has a higher rating. Good info

jtyphoid · 10-07-2014, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsmith948

Ahh! Could be that the surge we experienced exceeded the joule rating of the surge protector? If that is the case, then spending 3X for a hard wired unit won't do any good unless it has a higher rating. Good info

Yes, a single big surge could have overwhelmed your surge protector in one event, or your surge protector could have already been degraded by previous surges, especially if it relies on Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs).

My issue with surge protectors that use MOVs is that they silently degrade as they absorb surges, so you never know how much "life" is left in them until they fail, often resulting in something getting zapped.

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be anything that responds as quickly and are as cheap as MOVs, so all the surge protectors that I've looked at use them.

Despite that, I use an EMS with MOVs in it because it will not only protect my equipment from some unknown number of surges, it also protects from under and over voltage and some wiring faults. I just keep in mind that the surge protection capability will eventually fail and something is likely to get zapped when it does.

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