Half Ton Towing

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by BruLaz

That's not payload as usually defined.

If you look at the regular F150 brochures, you'll see payloads as normally defined (not including people but including a full tank of gas).

There you'll find that a 4x4 F150 SCrew EcoB can have a payload upto 2310# with the HD Payload option. But you'll want a stripped version, things like moon-roofs will drop that.

The catalogue payload for my 4x2 (FX2) F150 SCab EcoB was 2080# with MaxTow but not HD Payload. The door sticker says 2050# probably 'cause of the 20" wheels. So with care, you can come close to the published payloads.

But most "half-ton" 5ers I've seen have 1200#-1500# pin weight, then you add your 250# hitch and all the gear moved into the belly of the 5er ... I figure 2500# payload would be the minimum. With the HD Payload option, any 4x2 F150 EcoB would do that, and the RegCab 4x4's. But the SCab and SCrew would be touch and go. There's a lot of folks doing it though, and they have the CAT scale #'s to prove that it can be done "legally".

The HD Payload option is important. It not only increases your payload but adds ~400# to your rear GAWR and gives you a much stiffer suspension, including LT tires. I don't think it's possible to tow a light weight, "half-ton" 5er without it. Well, it's possible, but I wouldn't.

The big problem is getting the HD Payload option. It's not available on all F150 models, and you usually have to order it in.

We actually cleared all this up in another similar thread over the past two days. The correct payload for the truck in question turned out to be 1,840#. Not much of a difference from the 1,746# found on the towing chart, but accuracy in these matters is important. We did find the proper chart for the F150's as well.

This thread has all the discussion and links: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11367

[BruLaz]

Ah good. Glad to see it sorted out.

It is amazing how many people have been burned by too low a payload. Myself included.

By the way, that article really should have mentioned the Cougar light weight 5ers. Cougar X-lite, High Country and Half-Ton (western) models. Like the High Country 291RLS, 9000# GVWR, 7215# UVW, 1115# UPW. Nice trailers.

[440justin]

There is always something to be said for having a bit more truck than you really need. I have always towed car haulers with F350 dually trucks, so towing my first camper with a 1/2 ton was a big change for me. You know the camper is back there on a 1/2 ton for sure, not like the big 1 ton where you almost forgot you were pulling something.

Now I do have a small camper compared to most on here and did some math before I bough it to make sure I was ok, but I still need to scale the rig now that we have it loaded up with our stuff. I am predicting that I will only have about 100-200lbs to spare on the trucks GVWR even with a trailer that is 30% below the max tow rating of my truck!

I see way too many trucks that are so badly overloaded anymore it is not even funny. I think the truck manufactures need to get real about their numbers again as too many people are buying these trucks and thinking they can actually tow trailers that heavy. I would never try to two 9,700 lbs (rated tow capacity) with my truck I think it is just too much, even with the max tow package the 11,300 the Ford gives is just too much for a 1/2 ton. I now see the 2014 Chevy 1/2 is showing 11,400 towing capacity just to beat out Ford! When is the madness going to stop? Anything more than 7,000-8,000 pounds should be towed by something bigger than a 1/2.

[440justin]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Here's an interesting read on the industry's direction in lighter weight fifth wheels. I'm not sure that all I read is "objectively aimed at half ton trucks" but much of the future for lighter fifth wheels is noted in the article.

http://www.trailerlife.com/rv-traile.../half-ton-fun/

Some of the information is obviously "advertiser related support" by the publisher, I'm just not sure how they can call the KZRV trailer with a dry weight of 9750 lbs a "half ton model" LOL

To the OP, I think the only two on this list I think you could actually tow with a 1/2 and not over gross the truck is the Livin' Lite and the Escape 5.0.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by 440justin

...
I think the truck manufactures need to get real about their numbers again as too many people are buying these trucks and thinking they can actually tow trailers that heavy. I would never try to two 9,700 lbs (rated tow capacity) with my truck I think it is just too much, even with the max tow package the 11,300 the Ford gives is just too much for a 1/2 ton. I now see the 2014 Chevy 1/2 is showing 11,400 towing capacity just to beat out Ford! When is the madness going to stop? Anything more than 7,000-8,000 pounds should be towed by something bigger than a 1/2.

Think it's more a problem with the sales people and buyers not being well informed. A good example is in that other thread posted above. The payload, GVWR and GCWR are clearly specified on each truck. You should not exceed them.

But I personally have no problem towing up to the manufacturer's limits. Yes there's a lot of good reasons for getting a bigger, heavier truck than you need, but it's not necessary IMHO.

There's also a problem with the "half-ton" designation. An F150 with the Heavy Duty payload option is not a half-ton truck. It's really somewhere between an F150 and F250, and I'm told Ford used to give them their own model # (F200?, dunno). They have a reinforced frame, heavier suspension, axle, wheels and tires and their increased payload GVWR and GAWR reflect this.

One big reason many Ford owners want to stick with the F150 model line is the Ecoboost. It's proven to be a great tow engine over the last 2.5 years, and yet is not bad as a daily driver. For those non-retired folk who are still driving to work, it's a great engine. If you jump to the F250/350, you get Ford's 6.2L V8 gasser which actually has less low-end torque than the Eco and burns more gas. Or you fork over big $$, ongoing, for the diesel. If you need a F250/350, by all means get one. But I would personally prefer an F150 Eco with HD Payload as long as the truck's GVWR, GCWR and GAWR's were not exceeded.

[Ken / Claudia]

So, keystone makes a 1/2 ton series TT and 5ths wheels, They are nice, I have one. You would think that they are going to print, tow these with 1/2 ton trucks. No where in or on the trailers do they say towable with a 1/2 ton truck. The nice printed catolog does not say it either. I purchased it because that is what I wanted, towing it not a problem with a F350. But, I think people can be miss lead in thinking they are able to pull any of them because it says 1/2 ton. It does print check TV ratings for suitable towing. The 1/2 ton series may be lighter than some other trailers but, you still need a 3/4 or bigger to pull some of them. Also my little trailer has a hitch wt. scaled out loaded at 900lbs.

[davidjsimons]

The dry hitch weight on my X-Lite is 955 lbs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JeffS]

BruLaz -

You are exactly right that there is a great deal of difference in 1/2 Ton trucks. Which makes it all the more important that the consumer fully researches the specs of the truck they have or intend to purchase when planning on using it to tow.

Here are the specs for my 2003 F150 which I think is the heavy duty truck you referenced.

2003 F150 7700 5.4L Triton V8 SuperCab (this is the old 250LD)
Wheel Base - 138.5”
Base Curb Weight - 5,030# (includes full tank of fuel)
GVWR - 7,700#
GCWR - 13,500# (assumes mandatory options, no cargo, 150# driver)
GAWR front - 4,150#
GAWR rear - 4,800#
Payload - 2,670#
Max Trailer Weight - 8,200# (5th Wheel 8,300#)

Transmission - 4R100 (Heavy Duty)
Differential - 10.25” 3.73 Limited Slip Semi-Floating
Cooling (Radiator) - 1.42” core thickness (Upgraded Radiator)
Cooling (Transmission) - 14-plate Auxiliary Transmission Cooler
Brake Rotors -12.13” front / 13.2” rear
Wheels/Tires - LT245/75R16E 7 bolt, Load Range E

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by JeffS

BruLaz -

You are exactly right that there is a great deal of difference in 1/2 Ton trucks. Which makes it all the more important that the consumer fully researches the specs of the truck they have or intend to purchase when planning on using it to tow.

Here are the specs for my 2003 F150 which I think is the heavy duty truck you referenced.

2003 F150 7700 5.4L Triton V8 SuperCab (this is the old 250LD)
Wheel Base - 138.5”
Base Curb Weight - 5,030# (includes full tank of fuel)
GVWR - 7,700#
GCWR - 13,500# (assumes mandatory options, no cargo, 150# driver)
GAWR front - 4,150#
GAWR rear - 4,800#
Payload - 2,670#
Max Trailer Weight - 8,200# (5th Wheel 8,300#)

Transmission - 4R100 (Heavy Duty)
Differential - 10.25” 3.73 Limited Slip Semi-Floating
Cooling (Radiator) - 1.42” core thickness (Upgraded Radiator)
Cooling (Transmission) - 14-plate Auxiliary Transmission Cooler
Brake Rotors -12.13” front / 13.2” rear
Wheels/Tires - LT245/75R16E 7 bolt, Load Range E

Heh, comparing your numbers to mine really shows off the Tow Capacity inflation that 440Justin was complaining about above.

Your truck has better numbers (Payload, GAWR) all around than mine, except Tow Capacity. Mine is 11300#. Maybe my Ecoboost, 145" wheelbase and 450# more curb weight will increase Tow Capacity some but not 3000# ??

Even if my Tow Capacity were legit, it's seriously out of balance with respect to Payload and Rear GAWR, which is why these are the #'s people have to worry about now-a-days.

[440justin]

Exactly, if you get the HD package on the EcoBoost you have 2,310 payload capacity (crew cab 4x4. 3,100 for a regular cab 4x2). Looking at the 11,300# towing capacity with a bumper pull you should have 1,470#(13%) to 1,695#(15%) tong weight and for a fifth wheel a pin weight of 2,260#(20%). Sure does not leave much room for people and other cargo. This does not even take into account of the axles are within their ratting, this is just looking at the payload number alone! Now maybe if we work on a farm and are pulling some wagons and other trailers that have no tong weight you can pull the 11,300 without being over weight on the truck.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by 440justin

...
Now maybe if we work on a farm and are pulling some wagons and other trailers that have no tong weight you can pull the 11,300 without being over weight on the truck.

Bingo. Hay wagons. Think that's where it might be useful.

[440justin]

So I just found a site called F150ecoboost.net and have been looking around a bit. Found a page that people were posting pictures of their trucks with the trailers they tow. Check out post #55 on page 6. http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17...-towing-6.html This is a perfect example of what we have been trying to save people from. The user does not note if the weights are with the rig ready to go camping or empty and how many people in the truck vs. how many typically go.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by 440justin

So I just found a site called F150ecoboost.net and have been looking around a bit. Found a page that people were posting pictures of their trucks with the trailers they tow. Check out post #55 on page 6. http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17...-towing-6.html This is a perfect example of what we have been trying to save people from. The user does not note if the weights are with the rig ready to go camping or empty and how many people in the truck vs. how many typically go.

Holy crap!!! There are some big 5'ers behind these things!! Trailers I would not buy with my 250.

[Javi]

Wow,

[BruLaz]

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.

[440justin]

Originally Posted by BruLaz

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.

You don't need a diesel dually, but once you have towed with them you don't want to go back. In college I was on the Solar Car team and did lots of towing with this rig, but due to my real world need when time came for me to buy a truck I went 1/2 chevy (not up to the job) and then EcoBoost. For the correct size load the EcoBoost is a very nice alternative.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by 440justin

You don't need a diesel dually, but once you have towed with them you don't want to go back. In college I was on the Solar Car team and did lots of towing with this rig, but due to my real wold need with time came for me to buy a truck I went 1/2 chevy (not up to the job) and then EcoBoost. For the correct size load the EcoBoost is a very nice alternative.

Oh yes, low end torque. You can never have enough. With me it all started with a Passat Wagen TDI pulling a 2500# tent trailer. But the Eco's dual turbos are better; no turbo lag at all.

[SkiSmuggs]

Originally Posted by BruLaz

You don't have to go far.

On another forum I frequent, there are many who freely admit they are running way over the truck's limits. They've weighed their rigs and know how much they are over. Usually, they are surprised and disappointed. Others just don't care. You will hear about how lots of people are doing it, or how they've always exceeded their truck's GVWR without problems, and so on. The sensible ones regret the mistake, but often can't afford to do anything about it.

On the other hand, it does no good to insist that the only vehicle that can tow a 5er is a diesel dually.

Is the problem with this country ignorance and apathy? Frankly, I don't know and I don't care.
Seriouly, though, I agonized over all the choices, studied everything I could find, joined forums, etc. Until the 2011 F150 Ecoboost, nobody made the truck I wanted. I got Max Tow, adding 500 lbs to the payload, wanted HD payload, but the 6.5' bed wouldn't fit in my garage or be any fun to park. 80% of the time it is a commuter. So the fiver my wife wanted had a dry pin weight of 1700 lbs and I told her no way. We finally found the Cougar High Country 299RKS with the same floor plan she wanted and 300 lbs less pin weight. Got a Reese Sidewinder pin box so we could get a 90 lb Reese 16K hitch instead of a 350 lb Superglide. A year later, I finally weighed my rig and found I was 500 lbs over the payload (the HD package would have resolved that), but it rides fine and pulls like gangbusters. I keep my speed between 60 and 62 and get 10-11 mpg. So I am a little disappointed but am looking for ways to lighten the pin weight but not anguishing over it. In a 100,000 miles or so, I will trade it in for a Max Tow, Max Payload F150. Meanwhile, I get 20 mpg in my daily 70 mile commute and have no trouble holding 62 mph on long grades while towing a 9K fiver.
BTW, the fiver DW wanted was being towed by a truck with 500 lbs less payload than mine making it 1300 lbs over. Does that worry me? Not really, his lack of Max Tow left him without the larger oil cooler and integrated brake controller, but sway is not much of an issue with fivers and he has the same brakes and frame as I do. But F350s and 3500s passing me with 20K fivers at 75-80 scare the crap out of me.

[warsw]

Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs

BTW, the fiver DW wanted was being towed by a truck with 500 lbs less payload than mine making it 1300 lbs over. Does that worry me? Not really, his lack of Max Tow left him without the larger oil cooler and integrated brake controller, but sway is not much of an issue with fivers and he has the same brakes and frame as I do. But F350s and 3500s passing me with 20K fivers at 75-80 scare the crap out of me.

X2.............

[raycan2]

2 weeks ago I bought a 2013 1/2 ton Eco Boost and I was thinking it was not gonna be as good as they say pulling my 2014 Keystone Cougar...Anyways we gave the truck to my son and I bought a 2013 3/4 ton Ford to pull the 5th wheel and let me tell you after pulling the camper with both...The Eco Boost pulls a lot better and more comfort it was well under wt at the box and over all Plus I got 8 miles a gallon on the 3/4 and 11 on the Eco Boost..I pulled it over Teton Pass with NO ISSUES and am very very pleased with the Eco Boost...So anyways that,s my experience...We are selling the 3/4 ton to our business for use their where the workers can get that rough ride....