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Old 10-15-2018, 08:57 AM   #1
Chaos1
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Thinking of moving up to a 5TH Wheel

We presently have a Bullet Priemer 26rbpr and are thinking of moving up to a 5TH wheel 30 ' ish couples trailer but have a 5.5 foot box any advice would be appreciated
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:10 AM   #2
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Our Cougar fits us well as a couples trailer. Plenty big inside while still reasonably maneuverable. The box is 27' behind the Ram so it's really close to the 27' TT we started out with. We like the rear kitchen layout. Lots of counter space and the fridge, sink, bathroom etc are accessible without needing to open the slide. We do a lot of dry camping and find the tank sizes allow us about 5 days in the field without any issues. Except for pin weight, all other weights are well within the towing specs for our Ram. All in all a very comfortable unit.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:12 AM   #3
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You have a 5.5' box on what? The truck may be the limiting factor in how big/heavy 5er you're looking at. DO NOT believe any truck or rv salesman on whether your current truck can handle any rv you choose, they are there to sell & usually don't know/care if you can safely tow it or not. DO NOT fall for the "1/2 ton towable" sales pitch as most ARE NOT 1/2 ton towable. Empty rv weights tell you absolutely nothing in regards to towing weights, gross weight is your concern. Also the payload of your truck is more important than how much trailer weight it "can" tow. You have to do your own homework BEFORE purchasing a 5er that you don't have enough truck for.
As for switching to a 5er you'll be glad you did as far as ease of towing (with the proper truck), hitching & roominess inside.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:16 AM   #4
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What size truck do you have (1/2, 3/4 ton)?
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:13 AM   #5
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After looking at your info I see you're towing with an F150. As Travelin Texans pointed out you will be limited greatly in the size 5ver you'll be able to tow. Your short box can be off-set by using an "auto-slider" for your hitch, but you have a mighty small truck to be towing much. Sorry.....
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:32 AM   #6
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We are using a F150 with tow package 3.5 ecoboost 10 speed with airbags
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:40 AM   #7
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^^^^Doubtful that you will enough truck for most 5th wheels.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:48 AM   #8
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From what I have found reading, even a 3/4 ton is usually stretched outside of its specs towing even modest sized fifth wheels. Do not forget that slider hitch that was mentioned to make your short bed work weighs a few hundred pounds that comes out of your already limited payload rating. You would be best suited (and safest) towing with a 1 ton. They usually cost about the same as a 3/4 ton and should ride similarly (since both use the HD/SD chassis). You do not have to get a dually necessarily although that will open up the larger fifth wheels as an option down the road.

You probably want that extra truck weight and heavier duty breaks to help manage the weight of the larger trailers when on the road.

As example on why a 3/4 ton may not cut it, my truck has a 2200# payload rating. A light fifth wheel has around 1800# pin weight. With a hitch, myself, my family, minimal gear all in the truck, I am well over the rating for my truck. Many on the forums are comfortable exceeding the rating on their truck and do so saying that everything runs fine - I am not in that group. I would rather have some safety margin in there for both safety, and longevity so I am not stressing anything (axles, differentials, springs, brakes) to the point of an early failure.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:41 PM   #9
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I have a Ram 2500 and a "super lite" 5th wheel weighing roughly 9500lb loaded and I'm over payload but well under axle and tire ratings. My point, your allowable weight starts to run out quickly when you make the jump to a 5er. You more than likely don't have enough truck even for the smallest 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel versions. Don't trust the salesman
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
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Let's look at the smallest Cougar Half Ton Fifth Wheel, the 25 RES. Here's how Keystone specs it:

Shipping Weight 7500 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 2500 lbs.
Hitch 1500 lbs.
Length 29' 7"
Height 11' 8"
Fresh Water 60 gal (600 lbs)
Waste Water 30 gal (270 lbs)
Gray Water 60 gal (540 lbs)
LPG 60 lbs

Required sliding hitch: 250 lbs

Most half ton trucks have a payload around 1700 pounds. You can check your yellow sticker to see what your specific truck's payload is.

Let's do some "quick math"
Empty truck, payload 1700 lbs
Pin weight empty trailer 1500
hitch 250
propane 60
batteries (2) 90
fresh water (1/4 tank) 150
spouse 125
dog 20
truck cab cargo (purse, maps, floor mats, etc) 50
tools etc in truck bed 100

Total cargo 295
Empty pin and hitch 1750

As you can see, even before adding propane, batteries, water, camping equipment, clothing, food or entertainment equipment to the trailer, the payload is completely consumed by the trailer, hitch and spouse (with purse)...

Essentially, with a GVW of 10,000 pounds, you can expect roughly a 20% pin weight. Even if you only load to 9000 pounds, that's 1800 pound pin weight plus 250 for the hitch, plus DW/purse/dog, or well over 2400 pounds before you put any cargo in the truck bed.

While there are "half ton trucks" that are properly equipped to tow a light weight fifth wheel, not all "half ton trucks" are properly equipped. Unfortunately, yours likely isn't properly equipped.

Don't take my word for it, do your own math, be realistic with the payload and your truck's capabilities and I feel certain you'll come to the same conclusion as I've posted here.

So, can a half ton truck tow a half ton trailer? Yes, some (very few) are properly equipped, most aren't......
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:36 PM   #11
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We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:46 PM   #12
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We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck

You've made a mistake. You are quoting unloaded weights. Here is the link to the 230RL, the rest reflect the same thing.
https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...oorplans/230rl
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:40 PM   #13
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As I said empty weights tell you absolutely nothing, so figuring hitch weights from empty weights also tells you absolutely nothing! To get accurate hitch weight figure minimum 20% of GVW of the rv.
As for a V6 supercharged lightweight 1/2 ton pickup, it's a great tow vehicle for your little boat, pop up camper or motorcycle/snowmobile/atv trailer, not a heavy rv.
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:42 PM   #14
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Pretty much all you did was change the trailer brand from Keystone Cougar to Grand Designs Reflection. Otherwise, you're within a couple hundred pounds of the same specs with either brand. Something that's "too big" with a C on the front is also "too big" with a GD on the front..... I am not aware of any fifth wheel that is suitable for a F150 with a 1700 pound payload other than the "fiberglass egg fifth wheels" which range about 4500pounds and about 21' long.

They have a great reputation as "small fifth wheels" and are extremely functional, but for the most part, they are "campers" not "travel trailers"....
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:48 PM   #15
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We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck

The hitch weight on my Laredo is 1350ish unloaded. Loaded now, it’s around 1800-1850lbs
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:51 AM   #16
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Thank-you for your opinions looks like we need to upgrade our "car" before i upgrade my trailer.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:41 AM   #17
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I ran into this same issue recently. Bought a 2016 f150 3.5 tt and was told it would tow 11.9! Showed me the flyer and looked legit with my bare bones knowledge at the time. 18 mo later in the market for a tt or 5er. With the right hitch, a tt was looking good until my wife saw a few on the interstate swaying pretty bad with a similar truck. No way!
Looked at the GD models and almost bought one. Empty hitch weight and my trucks extra payload looked promising. Nope. We were just over when to ALl of the math. Thought we could put bags and a helper spring next. Said F it and bought a 2018 F350 powerstroke dually and a 40' 5er! Problem solved!
Only way we saw to use a "half ton fifth wheel" was to have a alum F150, 3.5tt, max tow, max payload, long bed and even with doing that it is maxed out. Hell, some 3/4 ton trucks are at the limit with an ave rv now.
Was quite a learning experience for me. Good luck on your endeavors.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Getn off View Post
I...

Only way we saw to use a "half ton fifth wheel" was to have a alum F150, 3.5tt, max tow, max payload, long bed and even with doing that it is maxed out. Hell, some 3/4 ton trucks are at the limit with an ave rv now.
Was quite a learning experience for me. Good luck on your endeavors.
Troy
Our F250 is that way. At max capacity with an XLite 30' fifth wheel and the little bit of "stuff" we carry in the bed. Between the "standard-not sliding hitch", blue tank, one Champion generator and 5 gallons of gas, we're within 100 pounds of our payload capacity. I often see 40' toyhaulers and luxury fifth wheels behind similar trucks and I wonder whether they're over payload by 1,000 or 2,000 pounds.... They sure aren't close to their GVW by a long shot !!!!!
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:57 AM   #19
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Our F250 is that way. At max capacity with an XLite 30' fifth wheel and the little bit of "stuff" we carry in the bed. Between the "standard-not sliding hitch", blue tank, one Champion generator and 5 gallons of gas, we're within 100 pounds of our payload capacity. I often see 40' toyhaulers and luxury fifth wheels behind similar trucks and I wonder whether they're over payload by 1,000 or 2,000 pounds.... They sure aren't close to their GVW by a long shot !!!!!
Pretty sure I saw a 3 axle Toy Hauler being towed by a F250 last week at Fort Wilderness in Disney. It COULD have been an F-350 SRW but dont think so.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:25 AM   #20
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Go hang out at the entrance roads to Glamis (SoCal sand dunes) about this time of year. You'll see set ups that will make you cringe.

CHP has started checking for non-commercial Class A license's out there the last few years. One of my CHP customers told me that they key on 3 axle trailers. If the VIN tag shows that the gross trailer weight is over 10k pounds for a bumper pull, or 15k on a 5th wheel, you'd better have the endorsement, or have a hell of a tow plan!
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