333mks

[Tim-Rhonda]

Wife and I went out and looked at a 15' 333MKS yesterday at the RV outlet in Danville, Va. What a nice 5th wheel. Love the 4 point level up system. Have been lurking on the forum for quite some time just schooling myself on the different aspects, pros and cons of this model and others cougar 5th wheel models. We are not sure if this is the one or do we want to look at others. I have been looking online for about a year and always seem to come back to the Cougars for practicality (for us), features and bang for your buck. The price seemed decent, a wee bit more than 30% off of MSRP which seems to be the normal. Any comments suggestions. Thanks in advance.

[Javi]

The DW and I looked for more than a year and a half before we finally pulled the trigger on our '15 Cougar 333MKS. No matter that we looked at probably fifty other models and brands, we comparing all others to the 333MKS. Some where nicer, and some weren't, but when it was all said and done the bang for the buck of the 333 won out.

We hauled it home and moved everything out of the old trailer into the new and we went camping. As we sat looking out the more than ample window at the rain falling, we discussed what we liked and disliked about the 333 and we couldn't come up with a negative. Oh there are a few things I don't like and will fix like plugging the lines to the washer connections because I don't want to have to fool with them when blowing out the lines after our winter trips. But that's not the fault of the trailer..

[Tim-Rhonda]

Originally Posted by Javi

The DW and I looked for more than a year and a half before we finally pulled the trigger on our '15 Cougar 333MKS. No matter that we looked at probably fifty other models and brands, we comparing all others to the 333MKS. Some where nicer, and some weren't, but when it was all said and done the bang for the buck of the 333 won out.

We hauled it home and moved everything out of the old trailer into the new and we went camping. As we sat looking out the more than ample window at the rain falling, we discussed what we liked and disliked about the 333 and we couldn't come up with a negative. Oh there are a few things I don't like and will fix like plugging the lines to the washer connections because I don't want to have to fool with them when blowing out the lines after our winter trips. But that's not the fault of the trailer..

Javi - your F250 do just fine pulling your 333mks? Our TT is 6980lbs empty and my wife has it probably up to 7500 haha if not more. My 2500 just pulls away and I would assume I'll know there's 4000lbs more back there.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Tim-Rhonda

Javi - your F250 do just fine pulling your 333mks? Our TT is 6980lbs empty and my wife has it probably up to 7500 haha if not more. My 2500 just pulls away and I would assume I'll know there's 4000lbs more back there.

We were pulling a TT very similar in weight to yours before trading up to the 333MKS and you will notice a big difference in how it pulls. The F250 and 6.7 are having no trouble pulling the weight and the stability of the 5th wheel is much better, as is the ride.

One thing I caution you on with the 2500 is tires, When I was ready to pull the trigger on this trailer I took a look at .the stock tires which were 245/75R 17's and the load range E were limited to 3195 per tire, I wanted a little more margin there so I swapped out the tires and rims for some 275/70R 18's with a load range of 3640.

We haven't finished moving stuff around in the trailer yet, there is just so much more storage in the 333MKS over our Passport 2890RL that we can't figure out where to put stuff so it's most convenient. But once we have it figured out I plan on running across a set of scales and get a pin weight.. Since the fresh water tank is at the very rear of the trailer that will have a huge effect on the pin weight between full or empty. But I'm expecting around 2100-2400 if the FW is empty.

[fvstringpicker]

We looked at the 333mks yesterday. Price was just south of $40k. The total weight of 10,000+ pounds is not much concern but the pin weight may be. The sales folk was tell me the pin weight is 1865 whereas the specs (per internet) is putting it a 1,690. Some folks are saying I need to add another 400 to the advertised pin weight to get a realistic number.

I have a 2007 gmc 2500hd duramax single rear wheels. The sticker on the door tells me the max cargo weight is ~2400 lbs. If I estimate people, dogs, tools, fuel, hitch and junk at 750 I'm 40 lbs overweight with the 1,690 which wouldn't be much of a problem. But if the real "loaded" pin weight comes in at a recommended estimate of 20% of the trailer weight, I will be 300-400 lbs over. Whatjew guys think?

[byrdr1]

Originally Posted by Tim-Rhonda

Wife and I went out and looked at a 15' 333MKS yesterday at the RV outlet in Danville, Va. What a nice 5th wheel. Love the 4 point level up system. Have been lurking on the forum for quite some time just schooling myself on the different aspects, pros and cons of this model and others cougar 5th wheel models. We are not sure if this is the one or do we want to look at others. I have been looking online for about a year and always seem to come back to the Cougars for practicality (for us), features and bang for your buck. The price seemed decent, a wee bit more than 30% off of MSRP which seems to be the normal. Any comments suggestions. Thanks in advance.

333MKS was first on our list until we saw the 327RES. We shifted gears mid stream on that one. We also bought from RV Outlet, could not have had a better experience. I had some service work done and they were on it right away knowing that I had 150+-mile round trip to get my camper back to the dealer. They got my service done ASAP on the day i told them I could. I also had a big mess up on my end and they helped with the getting parts I needed in a very timely manner.
We have looked at the 2015 327res and would consider a trade if we decide to go that way. I love the new colors and floor plans. Check that model (327res) out before you decide.
randy
PS Good luck on which ever one you decide on!

[fvstringpicker]

Ok folks, can I ask this. Does anybody know your "real" hitch weight on the 333mks?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

Ok folks, can I ask this. Does anybody know your "real" hitch weight on the 333mks?

That's gonna depend a lot on what you put in the basement and in the bedroom closet. Then it'll depend on how full you fill the FW tank.. cause it's at the rear of the trailer behind the wheels.

[fvstringpicker]

I'm trying to get some type benchmark beyond the mfg. typically understated weight. Can you give me the hitch weight if the basement and closet is empty or what your experiencing with your load? I really don't mean to be annoying. I just don't want to buy more camper than I have the wherewithal to handle.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

I'm trying to get some type benchmark beyond the mfg. typically understated weight. Can you give me the hitch weight if the basement and closet is empty or what your experiencing with your load? I really don't mean to be annoying. I just don't want to buy more camper than I have the wherewithal to handle.

In good conscience I'd have to say that if you can't safely handle 2400 lbs of pin weight then you might need another truck or another trailer. I'm reasonably certain that when I weigh mine I'm going to see 2400 give or take a few..

[fvstringpicker]

I appreciate it Javi. I think I'll scale it back a bit, maybe to the 29RLI. It would be really really nice if the manufactures gave more realistic weights to begin rather than get a person hyped up only to discover, after hours of research, the tow vehicle you have ain't gonna cut it. (notwithstanding, the problems a person may have after buying it based on the unreliable listed weight and dealer recommendation for my 3/4 ton.) Sorry for the rant my man.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

I appreciate it Javi. I think I'll scale it back a bit, maybe to the 29RLI. It would be really really nice if the manufactures gave more realistic weights to begin rather than get a person hyped up only to discover, after hours of research, the tow vehicle you have ain't gonna cut it. (notwithstanding, the problems a person may have after buying it based on the unreliable listed weight and dealer recommendation for my 3/4 ton.) Sorry for the rant my man.

Keep in mind that the 29RLI is an entirely different trailer concept. Some notable differences between the XLite and the Cougar models are:

1. Cougar has a 5/8" solid panel floor with insulation under it. XLite has a "sandwich" floor composed of thin luan on top/bottom with foam sandwiched between.

2. XLite is a "mid height" fifth wheel. There is only about 5' of headroom around the bed. Cougar has a full "walk around" bed.

3. XLite has significantly smaller holding tanks.

4. XLite has "standard" 30 Amp electrical service with 50 Amps optional with High Country package. Cougar has standard 50 Amp service.

There are other notable differences between the two lines, so do your "homework" carefully if you're "stuck on some Cougar features".... They may not be available on the XLite series.

Good Luck

[Wing-in-it]

Tim,

If I may suggest one thing if you're thinking of getting this rig....Make sure you get a second A/C unit.....One A/C unit wont cut it in VA.

[fvstringpicker]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Keep in mind that the 29RLI is an entirely different trailer concept.

Im now considering a 303rls. My wife ain't going to go for the 29rls anyway. The 303 is a purported about 500 lbs lighter and a couple of ft shorter than the 333.
Again, my concern is the hitch weight of both units is purported to be about 1,700 pounds "unloaded" . I can handle that hitch weight and probably a little more. I don't know if "unloaded" means before I would load it with camping stuff ready to head down the road, or if "unloaded" means before the mfg installed the A/C, bed and cabinets. Its frustrating because I can't get a straight answer out of Keystone or the dealer. I told the dealer I'd write him a check if he could guarantee the king pin is not over 1,800 as it sits on the lot and he him-hawed around; making me believe its well over that. I emailed Keystone and haven't heard squat out of them either.
Understandably, I don't want to get in a situation where I got to later sell the trailer or upgrade the truck to a one ton. I kinda like my duramax. Yep, I know they make um in 3500s to.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

Im now considering a 303rls. My wife ain't going to go for the 29rls anyway. The 303 is a purported about 500 lbs lighter and a couple of ft shorter than the 333.
Again, my concern is the hitch weight of both units is purported to be about 1,700 pounds "unloaded" . I can handle that hitch weight and probably a little more. I don't know if "unloaded" means before I would load it with camping stuff ready to head down the road, or if "unloaded" means before the mfg installed the A/C, bed and cabinets. Its frustrating because I can't get a straight answer out of Keystone or the dealer. I told the dealer I'd write him a check if he could guarantee the king pin is not over 1,800 as it sits on the lot and he him-hawed around; making me believe its well over that. I emailed Keystone and haven't heard squat out of them either.
Understandably, I don't want to get in a situation where I got to later sell the trailer or upgrade the truck to a one ton. I kinda like my duramax. Yep, I know they make um in 3500s to.

Dry weight is without propane tanks, propane, or battery.. everything you add to the trailer increases the pin weight to a varying degree. The further forward of the wheels the more the weight effects the pin weight.. As an example a 100 pounds added to the front compartment is roughly 98 pounds of pin weight..

and yes adding a front A/C adds to the pin weight..

Frankly, unless you pile a bunch in the front (basement) and stack a bunch of heavy stuff in the front closet, you'd be fine with the 2500 and the 333MKS unless you got a big toolbox or an extra fuel tank.. The only exception on that would be the tires.. check them for load limit..

[Tim-Rhonda]

Originally Posted by Wing-in-it

Tim,

If I may suggest one thing if you're thinking of getting this rig....Make sure you get a second A/C unit.....One A/C unit wont cut it in VA.

Mark, there would be no way we would do just 1 a/c after doing Shenandoah SP 4th of July 2 years ago. We talked about adding. Were still looking.

[fvstringpicker]

Again, thanks Javi. You to JR

[JRTJH]

I'm sure you've considered this weight thing from all angles, but I'm not so sure that all the "future possibilities" are on the table. By that, I'm thinking of some of the "I wish we had" or "If we add" kinds of thoughts that seem to inevitably creep into the equation after you've had an RV for a season or two.

Things to consider:

When you pick it up, the propane tanks will be full and there will be one 12 volt battery, probably a GP 24. Over the course of camping and travelling, you may want to consider converting to a 6 volt battery system (much more weight on the pin). Possibly, adding an inverter as well, so you can have AC power without running a generator. You may want to add a second A/C to the bedroom vent. That's about 125 lbs directly over the pin. All Cougars now come with washer/dryer hookups in the forward closet. One of the "hassles" we've encountered when travelling for extended times is stopping at Laundromats to wash clothes. If the "option" is already installed, there may come a "vision of making things easier" by adding a washer/dryer. That's another 250 or so directly over the pin. Depending on how many clothes, extra changes of underwear, socks, and how many pairs of shoes get "stored permanently" in the camper, you can add some fairly heavy weight to the pin, and that's not including what "absolutely necessary" chairs, grills, games, tables, tools, sports equipment, compressors, cleaning supplies, etc you find are "required" to be stored in the forward pass-through.

Where I'm heading is that if you compromise and buy an RV that's "right on the borderline" in empty pin weight, by the time you use it for a season, grow comfortable with it, decide to "add a few things" to make camping more enjoyable, you may find that your truck is "in over its head" with a trailer that "at the dealership was OK"... just barely, but OK......

Consider how you'll use it, what you really want to (or think you want to) add, and don't forget that if you decide to take a couple of guests along, there's another 400 lbs in the truck as well.....

Playing it "right to the edge" might work, but it won't be "enjoyable, stress free camping" once you get the extras that seem to always find their way onto the "can't live without" list......

Just a thought, certainly no intention of "raining on your parade", but I thought if you haven't considered this aspect, better now than after buying something and then realizing....... OOPS......

Good Luck

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm sure you've considered this weight thing from all angles, but I'm not so sure that all the "future possibilities" are on the table. By that, I'm thinking of some of the "I wish we had" or "If we add" kinds of thoughts that seem to inevitably creep into the equation after you've had an RV for a season or two.

Things to consider:

When you pick it up, the propane tanks will be full and there will be one 12 volt battery, probably a GP 24. Over the course of camping and travelling, you may want to consider converting to a 6 volt battery system (much more weight on the pin). Possibly, adding an inverter as well, so you can have AC power without running a generator. You may want to add a second A/C to the bedroom vent. That's about 125 lbs directly over the pin. All Cougars now come with washer/dryer hookups in the forward closet. One of the "hassles" we've encountered when travelling for extended times is stopping at Laundromats to wash clothes. If the "option" is already installed, there may come a "vision of making things easier" by adding a washer/dryer. That's another 250 or so directly over the pin. Depending on how many clothes, extra changes of underwear, socks, and how many pairs of shoes get "stored permanently" in the camper, you can add some fairly heavy weight to the pin, and that's not including what "absolutely necessary" chairs, grills, games, tables, tools, sports equipment, compressors, cleaning supplies, etc you find are "required" to be stored in the forward pass-through.

Where I'm heading is that if you compromise and buy an RV that's "right on the borderline" in empty pin weight, by the time you use it for a season, grow comfortable with it, decide to "add a few things" to make camping more enjoyable, you may find that your truck is "in over its head" with a trailer that "at the dealership was OK"... just barely, but OK......

Consider how you'll use it, what you really want to (or think you want to) add, and don't forget that if you decide to take a couple of guests along, there's another 400 lbs in the truck as well.....

Playing it "right to the edge" might work, but it won't be "enjoyable, stress free camping" once you get the extras that seem to always find their way onto the "can't live without" list......

Just a thought, certainly no intention of "raining on your parade", but I thought if you haven't considered this aspect, better now than after buying something and then realizing....... OOPS......

Good Luck

Another way of looking at it is...

I have a truck that will marginally carry a trailer we like, but I'm worried about the weight thingy, so I'm going to buy a smaller trailer that we aren't really going to be satisfied with and we'll end up either scrapping the camping thing or trading both TV and trailer off at a loss on both...

or we'll buy a trailer that we can marginally haul, be happy with camping, love the trailer and decide to buy another more capable TV so we can carry more stuff in the cavernous storage of the larger trailer...

[JRTJH]

Javi,

In a "round about way", I think we're saying the same thing. Either compromise on the RV you really want, or compromise on the Tow Vehicle to pull it, and you are likely to wind up in an "unhappy situation".

Buying a bigger truck is usually the most viable option. Most of us that are "multiple RV owners" have, at some point, bought the wrong RV in an effort to compromise with the tow vehicle. Most often we find that's not a good idea. I agree completely with you, buying a "too small" compromise RV is usually a "bad idea". I know a number of people who started off that way, completely stopped RVing because they just weren't happy with their rig. Now, years later, they are getting back into it and the first objective is buying the truck they needed back then.

The other end of that spectrum is also important. I know a number of people who use their RV as a place to stay reasonably comfortable in some very remote camping spots. Trying to get a 38' fifth wheel down those roads would be impossible, so for them, buying a "too large RV" would be just as much a disaster.

Choosing an RV is a lot like choosing a house. There are "must have", "nice to have" and "meh" items. Certain components of the choice just aren't negotiable and they differ for everyone who is looking. Just as few of us would choose to buy a 1 bedroom house as the main dwelling if we had 6 kids, many RV'ers would never be happy with a trailer that doesn't allow them to enjoy whatever is on their "must have" list. Getting a "compromise RV" by eliminating those "must have" items is a quick way to frustration every time you use it.

Realistically, the TV is just a "tool" to move the "deciding factor" from place to place. Just as a carpenter would not consider building a skyscraper with a tack hammer, an RV'er must consider getting the right tools to do the "job" of RVing. We've all come to realize, at some point in our RVing career, that the tow vehicle is one of the main tools we use. If it's not the right one, the rest of the experience suffers.