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05-30-2018, 06:45 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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Sway ... Problem or not?
Unless I watch for large trucks and slightly correct steering when the bow wave from a large vehicle hits the back of my trailer, the nose of the truck pulls left.
I can also feel fast 4 wheelers.
Is this abnormal? I know I need to check my hitch adjustment, I'm wondering if a perfect setup on this hitch could eliminate this cause of sway. I have an E2.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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05-30-2018, 07:44 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 18
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These videos show the importance of anti-sway and correct weight distribution for towing. This perfectly illustrates what occurs when poor loading of the RV is made. If the load on the nose is insufficient it renders the TV unstable and prevents the combination as a whole from stabilizing. This is the "BEST" examples I've ever viewed.
Additionally, "wind" and you TV is a factor. Are you pulling more than your TV is rated? 3/4 ton and 1 ton have better axles for towing. Tires on your TV is a factor because of quality and ratings.
Here is some good information that no one talks about. Everyone talks about payload and towing capabilities - people state their vehicle can tow, but it's the payload that's the concern. I'm overloaded on payload (I determined this after my purchases with more increased knowledge); I added items to my rear end suspension to aide in handling and weight. I only drive 90 miles one way towing on flat land 5 times a year. When I get a new RV, I will get a 3/4 to; it will drive better and I will be safer. Research and gaining knowledge on any subject matter is what I do, I never want to stop learning.
How are the difference created? The questions and answers are the parts used; there can be difference's between engines, brakes parts, rear end gearing, transmission, radiators and transmission coolers, frame, suspension and other related parts. Here is just one example of a difference between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton:
Semi Floating vs Full Floating Axles
How Semi & Full Floating Axles Differ
You're probably aware that full floating axles are preferred in high torque, high load applications as a result of their strength. The simplest manner in which to explain the full float's advantage is in the loads that the axle shaft must bear - a semi floating axle is subjected to torsional and shear stress, while a full floating axle shaft is only subjected to a torsional load. Any shear force on a full floating axle shaft can be considered negligible based on the fact that the axle bearings and axle tubes primarily carry the weight of the vehicle and all its cargo. With few exceptions, semi floating axles are found in light duty pickups while majority of 3/4 ton and larger pickups come with a full floating axle. The strength of a full floater comes at a cost, as these axles are also significantly heavier.
Semi Floating Axle
By design, a semi floating axle uses a wheel hub that is directly connected to the axle shaft (the hub and axle shaft are commonly a single part), which is supported by a bearing located near the wheel end of the shaft. As such, the weight of the vehicle and any cargo must be carried by the axle shaft itself. Therefore, the axle shaft is used to transmit power to the wheel as well as support the load of the vehicle, applying both bending and torsional forces to the axle. Semi floating axles are both lighter in weight and cheaper to manufacture than full floating axles, though they have a limited load capacity. They're are very common in light duty vehicles, such as midsize and 1/2 ton pickups.
Full Floating Axle
A full floating axle consists of a wheel hub assemble that is separate from the axle shaft. A spindle bolted to the axle tube supports the wheel hub by means of a pair of wheel bearings. Therefore, the weight of the vehicle and its cargo is transfered to the axle tube, rather than the axle shaft itself. As a result, a full floating axle shaft is not subjected to the bending force that a semi floating axle is. Rather, the axle shaft's only task is to transmit power to the wheel hub. As a result, the shaft is only subjected to torsional loading. Full floating axles are rather heavy, but have very large weight carrying capacities. They are common on 3/4 ton and heavier trucks, which require the ability to transport considerable weight.
To increase the capacity of a semi floating axle, the axle shaft diameter would have to be increased, where as the spindle and wheel hub design determine, for the most part, the carrying capacity of a full floating axle. The diagram below provides a rough comparison between semi and full floating axles. Note that this is not a blueprint of any particle axle and therefore the exact designs will vary depending on the axle.
Semi floating & full floating axle diagram
http://www.4wdhub.com/img/figures/se...ating-axle.jpg
__________________
2014 Rockwood 8289WS - Goodyear Tires
2022 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab
4x4 - 7.3L - 3.73 - 6 1/2 bed - Michilien Tires
Timbren & Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel Hitch
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05-30-2018, 08:58 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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Lots of good info there. Thank you.
I have a 3/4 ton Ram with full floating axle. New Michelin LRE tires inflated to values stated in owners manual. New front end. New shocks. I don’t think it’s the TV. I have learned that the short box puts me at a slight disadvantage towing a bumpers pull.
In regards to weight distribution the trailer was all but empty. No more than 200 lbs distributed as evenly as practical.
The rig doesn’t look to be light on front end. It may be time to check hitch and hit the scales.
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05-31-2018, 03:08 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Columbia
Posts: 128
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When you are on flat, level ground make sure the tt and tv are level to each other and the ground. Neither should be nose up or down with proper tongue weight.
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05-31-2018, 06:02 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hurley
Posts: 350
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I had an e2 with a 30 foot PassPort pulling with a capable 1/2ton. Setup perfectly I got the same pulling and pushing and did not like it at all. Upgraded to an E4 and it was a way better and tighter tow. The e2 might be ok for under 24 feet but I will never know because I have found what I was looking for. Now pull the trailer with a 3/4 ton and highways, trucks and winds have very little effect. Sure you will still get a little push orbump every once in a while but it`s the same feeling when towing anything. that tall and long,
__________________
Kenny & Susan
2017 Passport 2670bh
2017 F250 6.2 4wd
Equalizer 4 pt.
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05-31-2018, 06:28 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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I was looking at the E4 but I plan to upgrade the trailer tires and see if that helps. It has China bombs on it now. I have read that the tires can make a difference due to strength of sidewalls.
My dilemma is that I don’t know when to stop trying to stop the sway because I’m new at this.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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05-31-2018, 06:39 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Markham, Ontario
Posts: 1,942
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Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on
__________________
Dan & Serena
2019 GMC SIERRA 2500 HD SLE
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29 RET
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05-31-2018, 06:48 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hurley
Posts: 350
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I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.
__________________
Kenny & Susan
2017 Passport 2670bh
2017 F250 6.2 4wd
Equalizer 4 pt.
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05-31-2018, 07:02 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LA
Posts: 467
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Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.
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05-31-2018, 07:04 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northofu1
Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on
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I honestly appreciate your input but I think you misunderstand what I perceive to be the problem. It's just a wiggle that draws the truck to slightly to the the left. I would need to keep my hand on the controller at all times.
Controllable but uncomfortable. It keeps me busy looking for trucks.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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05-31-2018, 07:06 AM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.
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But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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05-31-2018, 07:27 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Copper
I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.
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I am planning to get a set of Carlisles before the trip to Colorado in July. I don't relish the thought of driving 4500 miles looking in my mirrors for trucks. Thank you for your input.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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05-31-2018, 07:37 AM
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#13
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 30
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Sway is just a fact of life in a travel trailer. Even with sway control bars. You learn to live with it. The new ford f250 claims to negate sway through the truck's computer and brake application. Thought it was maketing BS. It’s NOT! Our last trip with our Cougar I left off the sway bar to check it out. Trailer did not sway! LASTED A FOUR MONTH WINTER TRIP WITH NO SWAY. Bought a Montana 5th wheel to escape sway, but that was money wasted. Guy below who said to pinch your brake controller was spot on. Never stomp on your brake pedal. You can increase sway to crash and burn. Use TT brakes to control the sway.
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05-31-2018, 07:41 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Markham, Ontario
Posts: 1,942
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Gotcha, LOL, i forgot to read your post.
My Bad
__________________
Dan & Serena
2019 GMC SIERRA 2500 HD SLE
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29 RET
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05-31-2018, 07:43 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Markham, Ontario
Posts: 1,942
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Thanks Old soldier, some redemption.
__________________
Dan & Serena
2019 GMC SIERRA 2500 HD SLE
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29 RET
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05-31-2018, 08:01 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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I understand the trailer brake concept for those "oh crap" moments. This more like a bunch of "that's annoying" moments.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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05-31-2018, 08:36 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hurley
Posts: 350
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All I can offer is what I have experience. Long story as short as I can, picked up new travel trailer at dealer. Was late on a Saturday after noon and was appx. 90 miles back home. Pulled out and truck seem to handle the empty trailer fine. TV was a 1/2 ton with 7800 max tow rating with the the factory tow package. Got on a bridge on I10 And two semi`s few pass me and the sway control on tv kicked in. That my fellow campers is a pucker moment; but the truck did it`s thing and made it home without further incident. I got rid of the tires and got load rated e tires and replace the shocks to 5100`s Bilsteins. Adjust the e2 hitch and was out again in about 2 weeks. It helped a lot and for most it would probably work; but the trailer would move a lot by the bow wave John Brought up. Still not happy just did not feel anywhere near solid enough. Bought an E4 not that was an improvement I could feel the tow just felt so much tighter and the next trip was kind of what I was looking for; but the closer I got to 65mph I felt the trailer move more. Upgraded the tires and balance them, then had a chance on a F250 come and I bought it. Now pulls and acts like I want it too.
__________________
Kenny & Susan
2017 Passport 2670bh
2017 F250 6.2 4wd
Equalizer 4 pt.
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05-31-2018, 08:44 AM
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#18
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,981
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BamaRam,
If you plan to head west on I-70, as soon as you get into the open plains in Kansas, you're going to face sidewinds/headwinds that will buffet your rig. There's just no way to avoid "fighting the wheel". About all you can do is load your trailer "nose heavy" (10-15% tongue weight) and install tires/sway control as best you can. You're going to have sway, you're going to "fight it" and you're going to be "whipped at the end of the day" with any trailer.
Years ago we lived in Denver and would make the trip "back home" to visit family every summer. We made the I-70 Kansas trip first in a VW campmobile. HORRIBLE !!! Then with a 3/4 ton truck/cab-over camper. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 20' Jayco travel trailer. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 26' Airstream. HORRIBLE (but better) !!!
Two years ago we made the trip with our current rig, the first time towing a fifth wheel across Kansas. There were times when the truck was "pointed left" and times when the truck was "pointed right" but seldom was the truck "pointed west".... Every time we went under an overpass, we moved a "quarter lane" opposite the sidewind direction.
Kansas is about the only place I'd prefer the 4MPG headwind towing over the constant 40MPH sidewind.
Is it impossible? Nope, people do it every day. Some with the most expensive $3000 hitch available, some with a bumper hitch and no sway control. You won't eliminate the crosswind problem with any hitch, all you can do is reduce the tow vehicle/trailer fighting each other. You're going to have to cope with the sidewinds pushing you into the adjoining lane with any rig, from a million dollar motorhome (no sway at all) to the rig you currently have.
Almost any "good 4 point sway control hitch" (from any brand) set up properly towing a properly loaded trailer will reduce the sway. You're not going to eliminate the "sidewind buffeting" that will push your rig. That affects every tall vehicle and every short vehicle. Have you ever seen a motorcycle rider pass you, leaning into the crosswind? If the wind is strong enough, the cycle rider may be "almost laying down" to stay on the highway. Since you can't "lean your trailer into the wind" all you can do is point the truck in the direction that keeps you moving straight ahead. Then, look out for that overpass where there's no wind or look out for that truck that passes you and blocks the wind. You'll "hit the side of the truck or change lanes" when the wind "suddenly stops".... That makes for "one tired driver" at the end of the day.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have an adequate tow vehicle that's capable of towing your trailer. You can spend thousands of dollars and do the best you can to prepare, but you're still going to "fight it" across Kansas and eastern Colorado. Some resort to driving at night, when the winds die down rather than push on during the day. I wouldn't spend a lot of money to avoid the unavoidable. Make sure your rig is safe, properly maintained, properly set up and enjoy the best trip of your life. If you have problems with sidewinds, just rearrange your schedule for those couple of days and drive at night.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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05-31-2018, 09:24 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LA
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.
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Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.
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05-31-2018, 09:35 AM
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#20
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.
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It does, but putting a $3500/250 pound ProPride hitch on a 3/4 ton truck towing a 27' travel trailer is akin to going squirrel hunting with a 105mm howitzer. It'll kill the game, but at what cost and what benefit???
There's just no need for that kind of hitch for most people who tow rigs with adequate tow vehicles. I say that, knowing that ProPride and Hensley's advertising departments will disagree...... Their motivation is to sell hitches and make money, mine is to offer suggestions on how to attain "reasonable, safe towing" without spending more for the hitch than the tow vehicle is worth......
Understand, that towing with a ProPride won't stop you from being pushed into the next lane by a strong crosswind or bow wave from a truck, it'll just keep you "in a straight line" while you move over..... Look at any large, flat sided motorhome (with no pivot point) and you'll see that vehicle also is affected by crosswinds.... No hitch involved at all and they move over just like all other flat sided rigs....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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