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Old 01-13-2018, 01:59 PM   #1
mpgtow
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Fifth Wheel payload for a 2500 Ram Diesel

Hi,
Currently considering trading or selling my Keystone Laredo 240MK trailer for a fifth wheel "upgrade" in order to obtain additional seating space inside. I would like to keep the fifth wheel 30' or shorter.
Will the Cougar half ton 25RES be a good choice for weight?
I have a stock Ram 2500 (2015) Short bed with Diesel Cummins. Pulls the current trailer like a dream. And, likely no problem whatsoever pulling the fifth wheel (towing capacity listed at 17,000+ lbs.) however the Payload available is approx. 2,200 lbs. I do not have the hitch yet nor is the Ram prepped for a fifth wheel hitch.
2018 - 25RES states:
Hitch Weight = 1,610 lbs.
Shipping Weight = 7540
Carry Weight = 2460

Thoughts from those experienced members.... on payload issues?
Also looking at the new Grand Design model 230RL as another alternative, which starts at 1,200 lbs pin weight.

Thanks, Rob
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:11 PM   #2
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Pin weight will be without propane and battery(s). Sliding hitch will be about 200 pounds. Then start loading the basement, front compartment and you’ll probably be over. Is that ok?

That’s where it seems these threads go somewhat sideways with arguments on both sides. “Yeah”, “just add air bags”, “your 3/4 ton is the same thing as a 1 ton, just a different sticker”...etc.

YOU have to decide if your ok with that.

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Old 01-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #3
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Chuckster,
Thanks for the info. Yes, that's what I'm considering... I tend to be on the safer side but cant seem to find much in a lower hitch weight. Grand Design may be the only choice. Upgrading the tow vehicle is out of the question.
However its kind of a shame and misleading that a " half ton fifth wheel cannot be easily matched with a 3/4 ton tow vehicle...!
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:30 PM   #4
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I have your truck pulling a heavier 5th wheel. Yes, I'm at max capacity. That being said, I don't have any issues with my setup.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ;269345
I have your truck pulling a heavier 5th wheel. Yes, I'm at max capacity. That being said, I don't have any issues with my setup.
5thWheelin,

Do you know what your actual payload sticker says? Just curious...
Thanks, Rob
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:40 PM   #6
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Honestly I would have no problem with the fifth wheel you are looking at based on your diesel truck....

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf



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Old 01-13-2018, 03:13 PM   #7
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Thanks, ChuckS,

Yes, these are Specs. I have the 2500 4x4 with Auto Trans.,
Big Horn with some additional options.
Payload sticker on my vehicle leaves me 2,200 lbs.

6.7L CUMMINS DIESEL
A6 68RFE
3.42
10,000
2,360 VS. actual 2,200 sticker on my truck
7,640
4,724
2,916
5,750
6,000
25,300
17,180
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:19 PM   #8
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Interesting Note in Footnotes from the spec page link per above:

5. Trailer Weight Rating and Tow Vehicle Trailering Weight are calculated as specified in SAE J2807. Passenger Weight = 300 lb Options Weight = 100 lb Trailering Equipment Weight: 75 lb for Conventional Hitch, 70 lb for Gooseneck and 250 lb for 5th Wheel.

Does this mean these weights are already included in the payload calculations?
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:58 PM   #9
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I tow a XLite 27RKS with my diesel F250. I am at max payload on most trips and have had no problems with towing performance.

That said, you might want to look at some larger (longer) fifth wheels. The 25RES is 29' long with an empty pin weight of 1405 while the 27RKS is 31' long with an empty pin weight of 1355. The 26RLS is almost 30' long with a pin weight of 1270 pounds. While there is some difference in floorplan that would account for the pin weight differences, often times a specific model will have the axles shifted forward (lighter pin weight) or shifted toward the rear (heavier pin weight) and that model "stands out from the rest of the line" as having heavier pin weights than other similar length or even longer models in the same brand. That's sort of what you're seeing with the 25RES.

Shop around and you'll find several "half ton fifth wheels" that will work, some even longer than your selection with pin weights that may give you lighter towing weights than you're anticipating.

It's difficult to stay under the "yellow sticker payload" with a diesel 3/4 ton truck. Arguments (and it's often not a discussion but an argument) on both sides tend to become heated as members are passionate about their point of view. Good luck with your shopping and with your selection of your new fifth wheel.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:12 PM   #10
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I'll just throw in my 2 cents (maybe 10). First, I appreciate you thinking about this issue and putting the numbers to it trying to make a prudent choice. I've got a 3/4 ton HD truck with a payload of almost 3200 lbs. I won't buy a 5th wheel and pull it with this truck. Why?

A 5th wheel with just a gvw (and loaded to it) of 10k lbs. will have a pin weight over 2000 lbs; probably more. More than most 3/4 ton diesel payloads. I have a gas engine hence the higher payload. Even my truck would have barely enough payload for us and my stuff if I tried to pull a 10k fiver. I don't want to do that.

My little brother just came to see me in FL with his new Ford F250 King Ranch diesel and new Rockwood 5th with a 10k gvw. Truck pulls the trailer like it's not there. Payload? Not so much. He hasn't been over a scale but I'm sure he is tight on payload. He carries very little in the trailer because he only camps on weekends; this was his first long trip in any of his RVs - he is very happy. If you use it a lot, as we do, you will end up with a trailer FULL of stuff to make it thru long stays - FAR more than he carries

What's my point? IMO a 3/4 ton is marginal for any 5th wheel simply due to the pin weights. Will they pull them? Like a dream. If/when I decide a fiver would work for us I will go with a one ton. If stuck with a 3/4 ton as you seem to be, I would definitely be looking at the lighter pin weight models. The truck will pull a 5th wheel just fine, the weights are the only question.

It all goes back to your statement about safety. Only you can determine how important that is to you; how close you want to be to the max limits; what limits you believe are real or "gubmint" imposed, family safety etc. A scale is a wonderful place to start to let you know where you stand.

As I said, as a fellow RVer and traveler I appreciate your effort to work through this sometimes complex issue. Good luck to you and your choice. Happy travels.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:25 PM   #11
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Darn...ran out of popcorn, gotta pop some more
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:38 PM   #12
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Darn...ran out of popcorn, gotta pop some more

Me too! Between watching these posts and John Wayne in the "Alamo" I've already ran through my normal bowl full.....
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:39 PM   #13
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I gotta stop.. need to keep room for the chicken&dumplins in the pot cooking.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:53 PM   #14
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:09 PM   #15
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Hey Frank...You left your coffee on the running board

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Old 01-13-2018, 06:01 PM   #16
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Hey Frank...You left your coffee on the running board

It was either the coffee or the camera. It was all good.

Final destination for the winter.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgtow View Post
Hi,
Currently considering trading or selling my Keystone Laredo 240MK trailer for a fifth wheel "upgrade" in order to obtain additional seating space inside. I would like to keep the fifth wheel 30' or shorter.
Will the Cougar half ton 25RES be a good choice for weight?
I have a stock Ram 2500 (2015) Short bed with Diesel Cummins. Pulls the current trailer like a dream. And, likely no problem whatsoever pulling the fifth wheel (towing capacity listed at 17,000+ lbs.) however the Payload available is approx. 2,200 lbs. I do not have the hitch yet nor is the Ram prepped for a fifth wheel hitch.
2018 - 25RES states:
Hitch Weight = 1,610 lbs.
Shipping Weight = 7540
Carry Weight = 2460



Thoughts from those experienced members.... on payload issues?
Also looking at the new Grand Design model 230RL as another alternative, which starts at 1,200 lbs pin weight.

Thanks, Rob
Our set up is very similar to yours. Short answer; yes, you will be close to (maybe slightly over) the max payload with a full load in the 5er. That said I have never noticed any issue pulling, stopping or feeling in any way unsafe with our outfit. Consider an Anderson 5th wheel hitch to save weight. Keep your basement load as light as reasonably possible and the load in the truck to a minimum. Go to the scales and get your weights so you know the real numbers.
You are asking for real world answers from folks pulling a mid-size 5th wheel with a Ram 2500 and 6.7 Cummins diesel.
IMHO and 20k miles experience I'd say you'd be just fine.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgtow View Post
Hi,
Currently considering trading or selling my Keystone Laredo 240MK trailer for a fifth wheel "upgrade" in order to obtain additional seating space inside. I would like to keep the fifth wheel 30' or shorter.
Will the Cougar half ton 25RES be a good choice for weight?
I have a stock Ram 2500 (2015) Short bed with Diesel Cummins. Pulls the current trailer like a dream. And, likely no problem whatsoever pulling the fifth wheel (towing capacity listed at 17,000+ lbs.) however the Payload available is approx. 2,200 lbs. I do not have the hitch yet nor is the Ram prepped for a fifth wheel hitch.
2018 - 25RES states:
Hitch Weight = 1,610 lbs.
Shipping Weight = 7540
Carry Weight = 2460

Thoughts from those experienced members.... on payload issues?
Also looking at the new Grand Design model 230RL as another alternative, which starts at 1,200 lbs pin weight.

Thanks, Rob
I have a similar 5th wheel about the same weight pulling with my 2500 5.7 hemi. I have air bags but honestly don’t need them. Of course your truck will have no problem pulling it or stopping it but technically you will be over payload. I was over about 600lbs fully loaded last trip with family, dog etc, but well under the combined weight rating and axle ratings. You’ll be fine
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by KHBama View Post
I have a similar 5th wheel about the same weight pulling with my 2500 5.7 hemi. I have air bags but honestly don’t need them. Of course your truck will have no problem pulling it or stopping it but technically you will be over payload. I was over about 600lbs fully loaded last trip with family, dog etc, but well under the combined weight rating and axle ratings. You’ll be fine
Canonman your smart to ask before you upgrade and like was said previously only you can make the decision re safety on weights and ratings. I would strongly recommend getting actual pin wt. for the unit(s) your looking at and take into consideration the location and capacity of holding tank(s) as they commonly are located on underbody near the pin on 5th wheel trlrs. and can add up signifacantly especially if boondocking and unable to empty before traveling, times like this are when airbags or other overload devices on TV are essential for maintaining stock (safe) ride height. Like you I had a 3/4 t diesel 4x4 crew cabed TV which pulled the 35' light wt. (1500#pin12k#gvwr) 5er TH fine with addition of airbags on TV. Then I swapped that 5er for 38' TH with slides which was supposed to have 2200# pin which turned out to actually have a 3k# pin wt. when wet which pushed me out of rawr by and gvrw.The TV pulled the TH up and down a 9 mile 10% grade in Sierras to favorite 8k elevation camp site without issues (thank God for speed brakes and tow haul mode).
Needless to say a new 1t drw diesel double cab TV solved the over weight problem but created a host of others mainly in maneuverability, parking and DW complaining about not needing a new $60k truck (compromises).
Another consideration is to keep your fifth wheel hitch weight to a minimum, I have used a popular 40# 5th to gooseneck hitch which might be a solution for you especially since your cargo weight capacity is low, this solution also saves worn out backs like mine when r&ring hitch. Warning some trlr frame mnfg. warranties might be effected by GN hitch. Good luck with your decision.
Happy camping Canonman.

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Old 01-14-2018, 05:15 AM   #20
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You might also check your GVWR on your truck. Load it up as you think you'd be in camping mode and weigh it, then check that against your GVWR, that should also give you a good idea how much weight you can carry by comparing that to your payload rating. As far as hitches, I think pullrite superlight makes a lightweight 64lbs hitch but isn't a slider, its rated for 20K.
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