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Old 09-22-2017, 08:54 AM   #21
Gegrad
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I have always wondered that as well Chuck. And why do certain manufacturers, or more specifically, certain models use one kind over another from a different model.

Well, in any case, I am off to camp for the weekend. Mid 80s all weekend.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:32 AM   #22
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I know what you mean as far as quality and the way they spit them out at the factories, been through 4-5 different ones with the cookie cutter ones all being about the same. People running over people to get their job done. I do have to admit that I couldn't find anything on our PDI walk thru and after one weekend out camping only couch slide overhead lights don't work, all mechanicals seem to be working as they should so maybe I got one that was built in the middle of the week! Lol!
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:44 AM   #23
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I spent 3 days on the factory floor of a high end motorhome plant. Very eye opening!!
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:20 AM   #24
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One thing I should have considered, This piece may have been made somewhere else and used on Passports. It may have been assembled in China and removed from a box to be added to the trailer. If it was done there then back to shame on them. Still shouldn't have passed a QA inspector but it did in fact seem to get by many sets of eyes. After Reading some posts I feel the vent would have been satisfactory to some. Maybe the video doesn't really bring out the slop. But anyway its going to be fixed. That has been confirmed and this is not the standard of quality the dealership wants to be seeing. Its nice to have at the very least the dealer on the side of the consumer.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
As chuckster said, it's about cost vs profit. I'd urge anyone so visits near Goshen to schedule a visit to the factory. You'll come away with a better understanding of how these "rolling houses" are built and a better appreciation for the engineering that goes into constructing a house that can sustain a 70 MPH wind while bouncing over roads that would equal an earthquake of major size. We tend to focus on the "small stuff" like fingerprints while losing appreciation for the real quality that keeps these things from falling apart at the first "bump in the road" ...

Sure, it would be great if they were delivered with no problems, but given a choice, I'll choose one with the structural integrity and a fingerprint over one that "looks pretty".... WMMV....

Never thought of it that whay John, i will look at the Hidout out behind me totally different now, which btw has had "Zero" problems all year...

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Old 09-22-2017, 11:44 PM   #26
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I agree with the OP these things are not well made and there is no quality control

I have a 2015 the first owner used 5 times and have pretty much had every system on worked in the first 3 months of use

Scheduled for more work tomorrow because the black tank is leaking somwhere underneath AND now the furnance is not relighting automatically and it is going to be 34 tonite, i am in a GREAT mood now
This is the last keystone for me regardless if all of them are made like this or not

And i had to flag down a guy in a keystone laredo today on the interstate whose entire front roof area, 10 foot or so was lifted up with a huge air bubble and probably about to split

They were at least 30 miles from any kind of dealer or repair shop so it probably did split or roll back to the ac by the time they got it anywhere

These things are junk and i never would have bought this one knowing the constant problems i was going to deal with

I have had other campers and a living quarters horse trailer and none them have been like this , and they were all much older units

Think i am still in shock that i am going to be up all night every hour turning the thermostat on and off to get the furnace to relight, just wow
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:25 AM   #27
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We were probably pretty lucky in that our '14 had minimal problems that either the dealer or I worked out. Unfortunately, like automobiles or even the S&B homes, others don't have the same experiences. I've spoken to a bunch of folks in our 20,000 plus miles of travel in the past 3 years with the current 5er about their experiences and have heard some real horror stories but most are happy with what they have and the problems have gone away, one way or another. Some of the problems are really nasty while others, well I just would have just fixed and forgotten. All about expectations. If you feel the need to read about pain, look at some of the experiences folks have had with their 6 figure class A MHs that spend months at a dealer for problems.

The OP has every right to expect that he wouldn't see a gummy fingerprint and it sounds like the dealer will be doing the right thing by supplying a new part and the owner will tow off into the sunset with never another problem.
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:39 AM   #28
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Not to keep
I do not think the manufacturing process was ever intended to stop at the factory floor but be at least a two tier process. Dealers are paid to go over these units and identify/resolve discrepancies not addressed on the factory floor based on its production quotas. I can see where this tiered process can work if the two parties do their part. I also can see another model where all discrepancy are caught and fixed on the factory floor, stopping a production line is not cheap. This model could even promote direct shipment factory to customer.

Having said that, here is where the tiered process breaks down. Dealers use that allocated prep money to adjust the selling price and do little or nothing to prep the unit for delivery to the customer. Cheapest price Then here comes the customer accepting the unit without doing their own or joint pre-delivery inspection. thinking the dealer has already adequately done their job preparing the unit.

As I started in one of my previous post, for a true durability comparison one needs to compare these units with say a stick home in constant earth quake and tornado Think engineers have done their job designing these unit to withstand the environment they are put in
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:18 AM   #29
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Welcome to Thor Product Ownership!
Where Pride and Quality don't exist!!!
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:27 AM   #30
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Not convinced that other manufactures do not have the same issues and production model
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:07 AM   #31
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Actually the factory DOESNT pay for a tech to go over each unit. It's paid by the customer, and is usually listed on the sales contract. How much is charged is set by the dealer.

When a unit arrives at the dealer, it is inspected for any shipping damage or obvious defect. This is noted on a D.A.F. (Dealer acceptance form) That the driver and dealership employee both sign.

When the unit is PDI'd by a tech, that's when all systems are supposed to be tested, fit and finish reviewed and any discrepancies are noted. These isssues are dealt with and documentation that includes pictures and labor times are submitted for payment by the factory.

It is getting harder and harder to get payment from some manufacturers and our dealership is talking about dropping those lines.
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:30 PM   #32
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i dont know what the solution is but have to say there is nothing impressive about my experience with this trailer
or hearing of others experiences

keystone only got my business because they were the only ones that had this stupid front load toy hauler model lol
but they have lost it for my next 5th wheel toy hauler

i dont live my life or run my business to the lowest common denominator and that is how these trailer manufacturers seem to work

as long as no one else is doing better, well cool
unbelievable

am SOOOOO happy that i did not buy a new one, that was entirely my plan to get a new 2017
holy cow
i would be LIVID and i am close to that now

about to start a new thread on my furnace issues....

been another lovely day completely wasted on nothing but trailer repairs and diagnosis

this entire summer i have had 2 weekends where this trailer did not have some kind of issue
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:47 PM   #33
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If I were that unhappy, I would give it away, sell it or burn it. Touch wood, we've had our Cougar for a little over 6 years...no issues of any import.

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Old 09-24-2017, 01:55 PM   #34
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If I were that unhappy, I would give it away, sell it or burn it. Touch wood, we've had our Cougar for a little over 6 years...no issues of any import.

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Wow, how deep did you read into it? If you have had "no" issues then you possibly couldn't understand the "BIT" of frustration I had to see the sloppy glue job.
Please try not to embellish an unrealistic attitude. It wasn't like that at all.
Starting to believe this site rejects the fission of fails or mistakes. I can't believe we all have so much money to burn that we should just praise what we end up with.
No hard feelings, glad yours was perfect. I can only wish I had the same experience.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:04 PM   #35
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Wasn't/isn't perfect...I have fixed lots of minor fit and trim issues, loose screws, etc. To me, it's just part of RV ownership. I actually enjoy and take pride in "keeping it up" myself. To each his own.

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Old 09-24-2017, 02:12 PM   #36
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Wasn't/isn't perfect...I have fixed lots of minor fit and trim issues, loose screws, etc. To me, it's just part of RV ownership. I actually enjoy and take pride in "keeping it up" myself. To each his own.

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I guess that is a big part of the problem with the industry. We all just grin and bear it. Until, the manufacturer's feel either financial or regulatory pressure, they will keep doing what they do.

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Old 09-24-2017, 02:16 PM   #37
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You have to keep in mind that in this age of robotics that can do the exact same thing over and over again with exact precision, RV's are still built by humans.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:22 PM   #38
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At least my shipping and dealer prep fees were waived, also brought my own financing, they charge 1500. More to use their lenders. I brought 3.5 interest rate and they couldn't match it so they waived that BS penalty. Plus 7000 off Msrp and only had to give a 100.00 deposits/ Reserve to have this brought up from VA. I got the check back. It was a refundable hold. I still have the new buyer perks nothing was removed from my deal despite the savings. For now I'll let them replace the molding and cover. As far as I can tell I'm going to be good to go. So far everything seems to work fine, and looks great. Maybe that's why the hatch looked so bad.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:22 PM   #39
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I think people are perfectly capable, but quality takes effort, desire, drive, oversight and backing from all levels of the organization.

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Old 09-24-2017, 02:24 PM   #40
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I guess that is a big part of the problem with the industry. We all just grin and bear it. Until, the manufacturer's feel either financial or regulatory pressure, they will keep doing what they do.
I think (my opinion, not based on any accepted factual data), is that "we" (you, me and the vast majority of owners) are not a "big part of the problem". Keystone already has our money, we don't have much input into their future quality... Those who do, the future owners, the ones that are currently standing in line with a "fistful of money" complaining that the next shipment from Goshen hasn't yet arrived and they are getting impatient, they are the only ones that can "affect a change in quality". If they stop buying, Keystone (and other manufacturers) will be forced to change the quality standards, but with so much available credit (almost anyone can get 12 year financing with no money down) it's really no "skin off their nose" if they fail, so the attitude of "let's go get a travel trailer to tow behind our SUV, heck they're offering 1% financing with no money down and it's only $179 a month. That's less than one night for 2 rooms at Motel 6 and it's got a kitchen so no food costs. That makes it cheaper than Motel 6 ofr our vacation this year. Such a deal !!!!!

As long as that "thinking prevails" Goshen isn't going to change. Right now they are selling every one they can build as fast as they can push them out the door. It has nothing to do with those of us who "caused the quality problems last year or the year before".....

I know, I know, "blame it on the noobies"......
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