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Old 03-20-2015, 08:41 PM   #1
Susido
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PDI experience not what I was expecting

A little while ago I bought a new 2014 Larado 329RE 5th wheel. Today was PDI day. Or maybe that was yesterday because I think I missed it. From the PDI inspection checklist I downloaded from here I kind of the got the impression my PDI / walkthrough would be … different. Instead I got my salesman showing me obvious stuff he showed me before and bragging about what a good job their PDI people had already done the day before. I had given them that checklist a couple of days prior so they could be prepared. He gave it back to me with checkmarks on each section so I guess they felt they had already done everything. I thought the purpose was also for me to see everything was working OK?

I don’t think I’m a picky person at all, having seen up close and personal what truly anal people are like. Still I got the impression I was aggravating them. One tech told me he didn't think there was anything they could do to make me happy when I was simply pointing out the few flaws I had found and questions about other things that might or might not be flaws. Something about how they had already spent over 8 hours doing PDI on my trailer the day before – none of which I witnessed of course.

I wasn't able to check anything plumbing related as the trailer was outside today and had been winterized (rewinterized they say). Would have liked to have seen all the steps to winterize/dewinterize but no luck there. I’ve had a trailer before so I’m sure I’ll figure it out but I’d feel sorry for a rookie.

Sales guy was really reluctant to show me how the awning worked because of the wind. Only there was almost no wind! If I need to be that paranoid about the awning being damaged I’d better take it off right now. Anyway the awning seemed fine.

There are very noticeable waves/bulges on much of the rear exterior siding and the corner vertical moldings on the rear are quite crooked. I was told this was entirely normal and just how they are constructed with insulation and whatever creating the bulges. With the slide over the wheel-well closed there’s a more than 2 inch gap on a lower corner trim piece (see picture).
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Told that was also entirely normal. Maybe so but it looks really bad. On another slide there’s a missing screw that would normally hold down the front trim piece because I’m told said screw would go into the seal. So there’s about 6 inches of trim there to flap freely in the wind. I told them to silicone it instead.

The roof caulking was generally good (actually the neatest caulking job I’ve ever seen on the roof of a trailer) but just barely thick enough to cover some indentations along the front cap. I was told that was normal. When I actually poked my finger through a hole on the caulking around a vent cap I was told that was not normal.

The amount of rust on the inside of the spare tire rim was impressive, something you might expect for a wheel left outside for 20 years. They said they would clean it.

The cover for the box which contains the slides and light switches is way bowed out in the middle. They aren’t sure it can be fixed. I’m pretty sure it can be.

There’s a pretty big hole in the screen for one of the slide windows. Tough to understand how no one spotted it during their intensive PDI. They’re ordering some kind of part to fix it (really, they need a part from Keystone to fix that?).

The carpet wasn’t tacked down on one corner of the kitchen slide. There’s marks on the lino from the kitchen slide on both sides but I figure that is normal? Nothing was said when I pointed it out.

Brochure mentions the outside door light is motion activated. If it is motion activated I see no controls for it whatsoever. Salesman was not aware of the feature.

There was a slight scratch on the table top extension piece. I was hesitant to even point it out but surprised this was the one thing they seemed to think was rather important. They had the trim expert repair it right away with some kind of stain. Encouraged by this I also got him to touch up a number of minor nicks in the cabinets. The underside of one upper cabinet looks like it had been cut with a hand saw because the finish is so chewed up.

I was told they cleaned it inside and out. I could find sawdust and similar small construction debris in every cabinet and shelf so apparently they didn’t clean there. Or in the shower. The outside does not look to have been waxed, not sure if I should expect it to be.

I have a question about the bedroom TV hookup they weren’t able to answer. There’s 2 unlabelled CATV outlets, perhaps one is antenna and the other cable. But there’s a third CATV outlet near a 12v plug with little button to push that causes a little green light to come on. One guy thought it was for a Wineguard (sp?) satellite connection and there would be some satellite hookup for it on the roof (there’s nothing on the roof). I thought it was for an antenna signal booster but there isn’t a booster on this unit. What I find curious is there is nothing matching this for the living room TV?

Another question; is it typical for none of the 13 identical 15 amp DC fuses to be labelled? Because mine aren't.

So while I didn’t have the best PDI experience maybe I was just expecting too much. Of that PDI checklist, I doubt I covered more than a ¼ of it. My dealer has a pretty good reputation and assures me they checked everything out (but I know they didn’t because of the things I did find). Lacking a suitable tow vehicle it’s going to be very difficult for me to return the unit to the dealer for warranty work (this trailer is going to a permanent site) so I really don’t want any surprises once it’s delivered next week. It is true though that minor things I can fix myself and always expected to do so.
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Old 03-21-2015, 02:01 AM   #2
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You are a good writer - I actually enjoyed that. Good luck!
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:02 AM   #3
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I don't know what to tell you. However I would have considered walking away. I had one dealer try to pull a bait and switch on me a few years back. We were looking at a specific floor plan that he had on the floor. He tried to get me to take a trailer from the stock on the back lot instead of the floor model. I have a sneaking suspicion that the one on the floor had a thorough PDI done on it and they really didn't want to sell it. We looked at the one in the back and the fit and finish were really not acceptable. We walked away.

The ONLY pull you have with dealer is BEFORE they get their money. Once they close the sale and you have signed on the dotted line it is an uphill battle.

Good Luck!

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Old 03-21-2015, 04:01 AM   #4
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Gaps in the trim, bad caulking, missing screws.....not acceptable to me. You are laying out good money for a "good" product!!! Demand the results!

btw...you are NOT being too picky!
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:23 AM   #5
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I always enjoy reading threads like this because they serve to make me realize how happyI am with my three year old Outback. I have repaired the problems, reinforced the weak areas, the mods are well done and in a way that adds utility to the trailer and when I do have to repair anything, it's done the way I want it to be, not some hourly tech who doesn't really care about me or my rig and needs to get on to the next job.
I think if I had to go through the new trailer process again, I would just give it up.
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:50 AM   #6
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I always enjoy reading threads like this because they serve to make me realize how happyI am with my three year old Outback. I have repaired the problems, reinforced the weak areas, the mods are well done and in a way that adds utility to the trailer and when I do have to repair anything, it's done the way I want it to be, not some hourly tech who doesn't really care about me or my rig and needs to get on to the next job.
I think if I had to go through the new trailer process again, I would just give it up.
One of the major reasons I either buy used (let the first owner take the massive depreciation hit) or only buy after having done due diligence. We did buy our current RV new. Only reason was because it was the floor plan we wanted and they had it in stock. They had two on site and I went over both with a fine tooth comb and chose the one I felt was better built. Interestingly enough it was built on a Friday.

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Old 03-21-2015, 04:59 AM   #7
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There's always two categories of 'issues'. First are ones you feel comfortable being able to fix yourself, second are ones that you'd not want to have in something new and you'd have to worry about how they would get corrected once you left the lot. There's also the quantity. From what you've written it sounds like there are far too many things not right that would indicate there are probably a lot you didn't see. Take those marks on the floor from a slide - that would indicate there's at minimum an adjustment that's not right or worse, that there's a fault in the slide mechanism.

With all you found, I'd tell them "No thanks" and walk.
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:17 AM   #8
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Nah Nah Nah Nah. Nah Nah Nah Nah. Hey Hey Hey good by!

Made the mistake of accepting a lemon once. Never again.
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:40 AM   #9
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Try contacting the owner of the dealership and let them know what is going on. Mention the Better Business Bureau during the chat if you get push back. It is also important to keep your demeanor no matter how frustrated you get.

There is also a Keystone member service number or something similar you can contact if the dealer is of no help. I saw the # on this forum somewhere.

Also, don't be afraid of ticking off a salesman or tech when asking questions or wanting things to be right. This is your investment and you have every right to ask whatever you want. You may want to remind them of that if needed.

I am going through something similar, though not as bad. After explaining the situation to management, they stepped up. My rig is in their shop as we speak.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:06 AM   #10
Susido
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Well first off, too late to walk away - it's paid for. I know, I know terrible move. There were extenuating circumstances I tell ya. Something about pressure from the wife, pressure from the owner regarding his price, only suitable last year model with dual pane windows in my part of the world, someone else ready to buy it - yeah I actually sort of believed that one

Anyway the unit did check out well compared to some others at least. Quality in the RV industry is a vague term and who am I to expect different on my trailer. PDI was supposed to fix what needed to be fixed. The trouble is they have a different interpretation of needing to be fixed vs. "entirely normal" than I do. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post

The ONLY pull you have with dealer is BEFORE they get their money. Once they close the sale and you have signed on the dotted line it is an uphill battle.

Good Luck!

Aaron
Gladly, I get to disagree ..... my dealer has been sensational and has done EVERYTHING me and my wife have requested, Including replacing the entire island counter top because my wife could see a slight scratch on certain angles (that I barely could see).

Remember, they are just like car dealerships - warranty work gets billed back to the Manufacturer. They make money doing this. Plus they keep you as a long term customer and get referrals.

It's sad to hear about shady dealers though and I know they do exist.
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Old 03-21-2015, 09:40 AM   #12
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There are ways to stop a sale, at least in this state. Not sure I would have or not in your case. I do not like and will not put up with people not answering my questions. Some answers I may not like but, tell me. If the lower level employees cannot or will not answer questions go talk to the boss. Maybe some things could not be changed but, my point would be take the time to show me it works and fix it now if broken. Or else the trailer stays on your lot until it's done or the sale stops.
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #13
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I'm sorry to hear about your experience; you DID NOT experience a quality PDI.

You need to go past the folks you are dealing with and go straight to the top of the ladder at the dealership and then work your way back down. Sounds like you are dealing with a tech/service advisor and a salesman.

When I bought our trailer they told me of their comprehensive PDI prior to me getting it. I insisted on knowing what the repairs were, having someone show me and the work order they used to get authorization from Keystone - which they did. I did a walk thru with the salesperson similar to what you did which was fine but I told them I wanted a comprehensive walk thru on the repairs that had been made (about 12 if I recall) and we did. Before pick up I sent the PDI list from this forum to the service manager, copied the GM, and told them I would be there for a complete walk thru using the list. On the day of MY PDI I went with the lead tech and spent over 3 hours doing the PDI while I used a handycam and my wife took notes. We found a few minor items and they fixed them prior to pick up as well. The service manager came to see how things were going 3 or 4 times as did the GM (once). They need to provide you with that experience; if not they are are dodging you for some reason.

Scratches in the floor from the slide is not a good thing. That needs to be addressed since you aren't going to be able to take it back and forth to the dealer. The gap you see in the fenders IS the way it's supposed to look. Unfortunately, it IS a design flaw. The fenders on my trailer are very similar except the outside is more bowed instead of flat like yours. By looking you can already tell that they won't stay on if you travel much with it. Mine have been replaced twice (luckily it hasn't taken the skirting with it yet) and Keystone pretty much knows it is a flaw. The first set came loose on the 60 mile tow home. I retightened and took it back to the dealer. When I got there more than half the screws were gone so they replaced. When I took it back home (60 miles) they were loose again so I tightened them and used loctite. We left for FL and before we had gone 45 miles I got out to look (I saw one flapping in the wind) to find that one fender was completely gone and the other was falling off. I took it off and put it in the pass thru for the remainder of the trip. Long story to tell you that it is a flaw and you will have trouble with them if you tow much. They have put numerous reinforcements on mine, additional bracing and Keystone has approved literally new brackets to be placed down the sides.

I you have time before you pick it up you need to make them go thru this process with you. You chose them as your dealership, you chose them to give lots of your hard earned money and you certainly have the right to expect them to show you the trailer you bought from them in detail. What they did and what was wrong should not be a secret. What you are asking is not out of line or nit picky. If it takes an hour, or 12 hours, to do what you ask they owe it you so don't hesitate to start with the top. Good luck.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:56 PM   #14
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Gladly, I get to disagree ..... my dealer has been sensational and has done EVERYTHING me and my wife have requested, Including replacing the entire island counter top because my wife could see a slight scratch on certain angles (that I barely could see).

Remember, they are just like car dealerships - warranty work gets billed back to the Manufacturer. They make money doing this. Plus they keep you as a long term customer and get referrals.

It's sad to hear about shady dealers though and I know they do exist.
You have the exceptional dealer then.

And no an RV dealership most certainly IS NOT just like a car dealership. Yes they get to charge back to the manufacturer but it is usually at a loss, especially if it is an onerous repair that takes a long time to complete. And unlike auto dealerships they can refuse to work on a unit.

Aaron
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Old 03-21-2015, 01:41 PM   #15
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:39 PM   #16
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We purchased our Passport 23 RB at the Hershey, PA show in September 2014. At the show, the papers for financing were completed, but we decided not to take the "floor" model since it was still going to be shown for another 2 days. The dealer said he could order us a brand new one if we were willing to wait a few weeks. The unit was on the assembly line so a VIN Number was available for the bank paperwork. Similar to Susido, we came home and realized that the trailer was now ours while it was still being made. In fact, one payment was sent to the bank before we had the trailer! I was getting a bit nervous and hopeful everything would work out.

We eventually picked up the trailer near the end of October. The dealer had 3 locations in upper NYS, and we wanted to pick it up in Syracuse, which was closest for us. When we went for the PDI, the trailer was already winterized and had a PDI in Rochester. The DW said that is wonderful, but we want to put water through and make sure there are no leaks and the hot water heater was in order. There were 3 techs who couldn't have been nicer. They put the water through, put the hot water on both electric and gas, had the refrigerator running, and went through everything for about 3 hours. Then he showed me how to winterize and where the water heater bypass is located. I also brought an equalizer hitch with me that was installed for free. Then the tech set my P3 controller and took us for a ride to be sure everything was working properly. We switched places and I drove on the highway and brought it back to the facility. I gave each one a tip and then we drove home 320 miles. We have 4 trips planned so far and we can't wait to use it. We were very lucky!
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Old 03-24-2015, 01:42 AM   #17
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I always assume that I'm going to have to go around and fix things on my new camper that I feel could have been better. The PDI is a joke, they go around explaining things that anybody that has owned any camper would know. Like how to open and close the electric awning, how to use dump valves, how to make the refer operate on gas or electric,... duh! Best thing to do is to take a note pad when shopping and when you find the camper you want make notes of anything that needs attention and use the PDI to verify the fix. I did this on our new Cougar and found,... mis-aligned cabinet doors, loose carpet around a floor vent, ceiling trim loose, crooked light fixtures, and a few others. Thing I knew I would have to address such as the location of the automatic leveling control panel, what idiot decided to mount it way up inside the front storage area! Really I have to lay in there to operate it? How about the gas grill connector "under" the camper, really! Everybody wants to lay in the dirt to hook up their grill hose!!
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:32 AM   #18
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You have the exceptional dealer then.

And no an RV dealership most certainly IS NOT just like a car dealership. Yes they get to charge back to the manufacturer but it is usually at a loss, especially if it is an onerous repair that takes a long time to complete. And unlike auto dealerships they can refuse to work on a unit.

Aaron
Didn't know that ..... I assumed it was the other way because they seem excited to come to where I am parked full time and do warranty work. I figured it must be that way .....
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:17 PM   #19
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Try contacting the owner of the dealership and let them know what is going on. Mention the Better Business Bureau during the chat if you get push back. It is also important to keep your demeanor no matter how frustrated you get.

There is also a Keystone member service number or something similar you can contact if the dealer is of no help. I saw the # on this forum somewhere.

Also, don't be afraid of ticking off a salesman or tech when asking questions or wanting things to be right. This is your investment and you have every right to ask whatever you want. You may want to remind them of that if needed.

I am going through something similar, though not as bad. After explaining the situation to management, they stepped up. My rig is in their shop as we speak.
As the owner of a dealership, I can tell you that mentioning the better business bureau gets you no where fast. That organization has no teeth and most people don't realize that they will take money from me to recommend my business.
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:20 PM   #20
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You have the exceptional dealer then.

And no an RV dealership most certainly IS NOT just like a car dealership. Yes they get to charge back to the manufacturer but it is usually at a loss, especially if it is an onerous repair that takes a long time to complete. And unlike auto dealerships they can refuse to work on a unit.

Aaron
Very true. Warranty work is not a money maker for us. I just completed a warranty job on a Laredo that took us 15 hours and got paid for 8.
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