Disk Brakes....WOW

BSHGTO · 02-03-2018, 08:16 AM

Went out and bought a 3791 Rear Den a few weeks ago. What a beast. After a few trips and a few hundred miles I realized the front adjusting brakes just wasn`t going to stop this thing when the lovely young female that wants to get off at the next exit decides to come out of the fast lane into mine and slams on her brakes to make the exit ( this did happen, just inches to collision and she flipped me off when I laid on the horn ).

With that in mind on our last trip I decided to not to put up with crappy brakes anymore. Called Etrailer and ordered an assembly of parts for $1534.00. Five days later they were on my door step, put them on in less than a day and thru the electric brakes in the shed. Went out for a test drive and all I can say is never again will I own a big camper without disk brakes. This behemoth stops on a dime now with out lock up it can stop pronto.
I`m ready for

her

now.
If you do any Mods this should be at the top of the list.

ctbruce · 02-03-2018, 09:50 AM

Great write up. You may want to consider Chuckster57's air horn mod to add next. With it you could of knocked her finger back into its proper place!

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Ken / Claudia · 02-03-2018, 11:00 AM

Having pulled boat duel axle trailers mainly with drums and then the same size boat trailer with disks it is much better, never pulled a RV with disk brakes yet but, inmagine it is just as you say.

bdaniel · 02-03-2018, 04:07 PM

I did this a couple of years ago and have about 20,000 miles on them. I love them.

https://www.bobbystuff.com/rv/228/el...ake-conversion

Ddubya · 02-03-2018, 05:30 PM

Just finished mine. Can't wait to try them out.

travelin texans · 02-03-2018, 05:35 PM

Did mine a year ago Nov, will never own another heavy 5er without them.

Hodgy · 02-03-2018, 07:59 PM

.

So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?

.

notanlines · 02-04-2018, 04:32 AM

Hodgy, keep in mind that less than half the big RV owners think they have a problem. Most big ones stop "ok" just not great.

Tinner12002 · 02-04-2018, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodgy

.

So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?

.

Great question Hodgy! I agree that some manufacturer could get a jump on other manufacturers by at least offering disc brakes as an option on their larger RVs and that might even start a trend!! Lol!
Definitely looks like a great mod to add discs for sure!

Ddubya · 02-04-2018, 07:02 AM

I am sure that many owners do not realize they have a problem with their trailer brakes.
I returned home from having some warranty work done on my 2017 Alpine and discovered that three of four brakes were totally destroyed. I had checked the brakes and repacked the bearings when I purchased the unit in November of 2016 and had put about 10000 miles on it.
I had also complained to the dealer about weak breaks and they said that they were OK.
Had my wife not heard the noise from the wheels as I was backing up into my barn we would not have known.

ctbruce · 02-04-2018, 07:05 AM

Just a question, because I don't know. Has anybody sold a trailer with this mod? We're you able to recoup your investment? If you could, that would go a long way towards making the investment initially.

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**JRTJH** · 02-04-2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodgy

.

So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?

.

If you look at the posts on this forum (you don't even need to go to any of the other forums about other brands), you'll find that people "shop for price" when buying an RV. Many state they bought 1000 miles from home "because the local dealer wouldn't match a $500 difference in price". Others state, "My local dealer refused to match the price CW had on a FR brand with the same floorplan, so I'll be leaving the Keystone forum."

If (just my suspicions) the cost of drum brakes on two axles costs Keystone $200 and the wholesale price of the components for a disc brake system are $1000, then the wholesale price of the trailer would increase $800. (again, just my guesses on cost).

If that were factored into the wholesale price of the trailer, then the dealer's "retail price" would have to increase at least that much, plus his overhead/interest costs to put that extra $800 into his inventory for up to a year or more before it sells. Then, he'd have to make adjustments for "last year's model" if it didn't sell.

Based on the fact that Keystone (and all other manufacturers) count "pennies on the dollar" by buying lowest bidder parts, I wouldn't think you'll find any dealer willing to add $800 to the wholesale price of a unit they are "desperately working at keeping within $100 of Forest River's brand for the same floorplan".....

As was said previously, "Hodgy, keep in mind that less than half the big RV owners think they have a problem. Most big ones stop "ok" just not great." So why would a "new owner" pay $1000-1500 more for a trailer with disc brakes when they refuse to pay $500 more "for the same floorplan" and buy the FR trailer because it's a better deal?????

Remember, about 75% of all trailer buying is done on "color, where the sofa is, and how many windows are in the kitchen" type of decisions.... How many buyers do you know that even consider how many air conditioners or what kind of tires are on the trailer?

Would disc brakes be the "sudden shift in what's important" ??? I'd guess, people could care less what kind of brakes a trailer has, so long as the sofa is comfortable and "momma likes the stove"....

Hodgy · 02-04-2018, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'd guess, people could care less what kind of brakes a trailer has, so long as the sofa is comfortable and "momma likes the stove"....

Lot of truth in your post, I might add, "momma likes the big sink".

I am just hauling a little tin can behind my ½ ton but hearing the weight some of you 5ers' have, I would be looking at the discs.

.

**chuckster57** · 02-04-2018, 08:27 AM

I know I’m probably the only guy with “old” stuff, but hydraulic trailer brakes require a brake controller that can work with that...I don’t. And not in the market to buy another controller since mine works fine.

Ddubya · 02-04-2018, 09:15 AM

I am not at all worried about resale price. I am worried about safety.
I know there are literally thousands of trailers on the road that have drum brakes but after seeing mine in pieces I could not go back with them. I have had trailers with drum brakes and had no issues but this is the first with self adjusting brakes. Not sure if that was the cause for failure but I choose not to take any more chances.

**JRTJH** · 02-04-2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddubya

I am not at all worried about resale price. I am worried about safety.
I know there are literally thousands of trailers on the road that have drum brakes but after seeing mine in pieces I could not go back with them. I have had trailers with drum brakes and had no issues but this is the first with self adjusting brakes. Not sure if that was the cause for failure but I choose not to take any more chances.

Maybe, maybe not, but I'd suspect that the previous trailers you had were equipped with brakes manufactured by Dexter or AlKo, in the US with US manufactured materials. Since about 2000 (or around then) it seems more and more of the "quality" has disappeared from trailer brakes just like "quality" is disappearing from much of what we buy.

I know several members of this forum who "scrambled to buy" a set of Timken bearings marked USA before they're all gone. Not that they need them now, rather they don't trust the "Made in China Timken's"...

It may be that forward adjusting brakes are "crap", but with the number of units on the road without problems, I'd guess it's more a matter of Lippert importing Chinese "crap" and selling it under the "Lippert is as good as Dexter" brand...... Not to mention that Keystone buys all their "quality components" from the lowest bidder......

**chuckster57** · 02-04-2018, 09:54 AM

Most all of the failures with the forward adjusting brakes we have seen are with Lippert using the wrong grease and the grease seal failing. Lost count of how many I have replaced on Grand Design Reflections... NONE of the replacements have failed. We get all new backing plates and install a new grease seal.

**JRTJH** · 02-04-2018, 10:04 AM

I've seen a large number of reports reflecting exactly what chuckster stated. From cotter pins inserted incorrectly to bolts loose to bearings not properly greased to grease seals not installed correctly to brake pad springs not installed properly to "you name it".... Sounds to me like Lippert had (maybe still having) growing pains getting into the axle market.

Most of what they sell is manufactured in China, some is assembled in the US, but from what I understand, Keystone buys the frame from Lippert, used to install Dexter/AlKo axles on them at the first position on the assembly line, now they're installing Lippert axles on most of the "entry level/midlevel" trailer lines. Dexter/AlKo is still being installed on "SOME" (not all) of the more expensive Keystone brands. I know my Cougar axles are Lippert with Llippert brakes. I replaced them last year with Dexter brake assemblies and I've had no problems since.

As for Disc brakes, they're available for almost any trailer size/weight. My opinion is that they don't become "a good idea" until after the 10K GVW trailer weight and don't become "recommended" until after the 15K GVW trailer weight. I think they'd be "critical" after about 16 or 17K trailers are being dragged behind trucks weighing half that weight......

Ddubya · 02-04-2018, 11:24 AM

When I inspected my brakes a week after purchasing the trailer new there was one seal already leaking. I replaced the seal,checked all bearings ,repacked all wheels with grease and inspected the brake assemblies. All was good before the first trip.
After about 5000 miles I had the dealer look at the brakes because I was not sure they were working properly. They assured me all was good. At about 10000 miles is when all went south. When I removed the hubs parts fell out of three of four. The seals were intact and no grease had leaked out onto the backing plates. All bearings were good.
By the way there was a sticker inside the backing plates with a US flag on it.

travelin texans · 02-04-2018, 02:31 PM

Once you've felt the difference once you step on the brake pedal of a rv with disc brakes you'll wonder how you ever managed to stop one with drum brakes, the difference is night & day. Yes drums will stop a rv provided they are maintained, adjusted regularly, either manually or automatically & not covered in grease.
I totally agree that $$$ is the only reason they aren't standard on rvs & the reason more people dont opt to order with them.

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