Thoughts on a 2023 Keystone 25FKPR

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by OregonAdventurer

After reading this comment I tried to find information on the Keystone website about the suspension. Not finding anything I used the contact form asking what kind of suspension was on this unit and I am still waiting for a response. This is the second time I've asked Keystone question and they are not exactly timely (the first question took over a week for a response and the follow up question I'm still waiting 20+ days..) If this is the customer service provided for a prospective customer with cash in hand I don't think it gets better after the sale.

There are no dealers in Oregon that sell this model so we were counting on it being high quality with the reasonable issues that all trailers may experience.

The floor plan is perfect for us and the windows put it over some competitors offerings with similar floor plans.

I truly appreciate ALL the comments and the time you have taken to help us understand what we should look out for.

These days a week to get a response back from any business is normal anymore it seems - took me 4 hours and 3 tries to make a dermatologist appt. today. In this case you aren't even an owner and they have plenty of things going on with owners. You are asking a sales question which would/should be directed to sales people...Keystone RV doesn't have them for direct customer sales. You won't be able to go to any of these manufacturers and start asking them detailed questions without getting a dealer involved - that's what they do in the chain and the manufacturers just won't have time to answer all the potential questions from potential buyers...again that will be sales.

As far as suspension, what is it you want to know? This is a new floorplan but from what George ascertained and what I could barely tell on videos it has a standard shackle suspension. Are you looking for something different?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

...

As far as suspension, what is it you want to know? This is a new floorplan but from what George ascertained and what I could barely tell on videos it has a standard shackle suspension. Are you looking for something different?

My concern about the suspension (may not be the OP's question) is whether the leaf spring suspension is a "stacked multileaf spring" or if it is the "longer, wide spaced suspension with a single leaf mono-spring type suspension".... We've got a couple of members with lighter trailers that have the "single leaf springs" that have been stranded either on the highway or in a campground and unable to move their trailer until they can locate that "special length mono-spring" ...

The "conventional multi-leaf springs" are all the same length, interchangeable and readily available most anywhere. Around here, springs for a 3500 pound axle, a 5200 pound axle or a 6000 pound axle are all available in "multi-leaf configuration" at Tractor Supply, some auto parts stores and every trailer service business as well as every RV parts department... The last "broken mono-leaf spring problem" documented on this forum resulted in the trailer sitting in a WalMart parking lot for a couple of weeks while a RV mobile repair service (I believe it was) tried to locate a replacement spring, supposedly only available from the manufacturer of the axles.....

Much easier and "more reliable as well as easier to find repair parts" for the type suspension used for the past 50 or 60 years rather than the "cheaper, ultra-light stuff that's being put under some trailers, apparently to save the manufacturer money and save the buyer trailer weight.....

Those "single leave springs" just have the potential to cause a breakdown that could leave you stranded for weeks without parts availability.

Here's a sampling of threads that discuss "broken mono-springs".

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

My concern about the suspension (may not be the OP's question) is whether the leaf spring suspension is a "stacked multileaf spring" or if it is the "longer, wide spaced suspension with a single leaf mono-spring type suspension".... We've got a couple of members with lighter trailers that have the "single leaf springs" that have been stranded either on the highway or in a campground and unable to move their trailer until they can locate that "special length mono-spring" ...

The "conventional multi-leaf springs" are all the same length, interchangeable and readily available most anywhere. Around here, springs for a 3500 pound axle, a 5200 pound axle or a 6000 pound axle are all available in "multi-leaf configuration" at Tractor Supply, some auto parts stores and every trailer service business as well as every RV parts department... The last "broken mono-leaf spring problem" documented on this forum resulted in the trailer sitting in a WalMart parking lot for a couple of weeks while a RV mobile repair service (I believe it was) tried to locate a replacement spring, supposedly only available from the manufacturer of the axles.....

Much easier and "more reliable as well as easier to find repair parts" for the type suspension used for the past 50 or 60 years rather than the "cheaper, ultra-light stuff that's being put under some trailers, apparently to save the manufacturer money and save the buyer trailer weight.....

Those "single leave springs" just have the potential to cause a breakdown that could leave you stranded for weeks without parts availability.

Don't recall ever seeing leaf springs in Tractor Supply. Interesting. I know they have a few ST tires on the shelf; generally smaller sizes but haven't noted any leaf springs. I willl have to check it out if my wife gives some time off from the shop...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Don't recall ever seeing leaf springs in Tractor Supply. Interesting. I know they have a few ST tires on the shelf; generally smaller sizes but haven't noted any leaf springs. I willl have to check it out if my wife gives some time off from the shop...

Here's the "pickup today or delivered to you same day if ordered before 2PM ...

Some TS stores may not carry them, ours does.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

My concern about the suspension (may not be the OP's question) is whether the leaf spring suspension is a "stacked multileaf spring" or if it is the "longer, wide spaced suspension with a single leaf mono-spring type suspension".... We've got a couple of members with lighter trailers that have the "single leaf springs" that have been stranded either on the highway or in a campground and unable to move their trailer until they can locate that "special length mono-spring" ...

The "conventional multi-leaf springs" are all the same length, interchangeable and readily available most anywhere. Around here, springs for a 3500 pound axle, a 5200 pound axle or a 6000 pound axle are all available in "multi-leaf configuration" at Tractor Supply, some auto parts stores and every trailer service business as well as every RV parts department... The last "broken mono-leaf spring problem" documented on this forum resulted in the trailer sitting in a WalMart parking lot for a couple of weeks while a RV mobile repair service (I believe it was) tried to locate a replacement spring, supposedly only available from the manufacturer of the axles.....

Much easier and "more reliable as well as easier to find repair parts" for the type suspension used for the past 50 or 60 years rather than the "cheaper, ultra-light stuff that's being put under some trailers, apparently to save the manufacturer money and save the buyer trailer weight.....

Those "single leave springs" just have the potential to cause a breakdown that could leave you stranded for weeks without parts availability.

Here's a sampling of threads that discuss "broken mono-springs".

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=broken+spring

If that's the question, and it had a single leaf, it would not be considered. IMO the OP should find the dealership that has one, tell them he is interested (a potential buyer) and would someone tell him the specifics of that unit sitting on the lot (suspension question)....much faster and much more reliable. I've done that, had them send pictures etc.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Here's the "pickup today or delivered to you same day if ordered before 2PM ...

Some TS stores may not carry them, ours does.

John, my not seeing an item doesn't mean it isn't there. Did a quick search and the 2900 lb springs were not available in any store near me but can be ordered online. Here are the specs:

Eye to eye spring design
5-leaf design
Width of eye to eye spring: 1-3/4 in.
25.25 in. from mounting centers on the eye to eye spring
Mounting hole diameter in the 5-leaf eye to eye spring: 9/16 in.
2,900 lb. maximum capacity per 5-leaf eye to eye spring

Would these springs work on most any trailer? Of course I would change shackles and bolts, etc. Just curious (I own a 22 year old Cougar so a suspension upgrade that is reasonably priced might be in the cards.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

John, my not seeing an item doesn't mean it isn't there. Did a quick search and the 2900 lb springs were not available in any store near me but can be ordered online. Here are the specs:

Eye to eye spring design
5-leaf design
Width of eye to eye spring: 1-3/4 in.
25.25 in. from mounting centers on the eye to eye spring
Mounting hole diameter in the 5-leaf eye to eye spring: 9/16 in.
2,900 lb. maximum capacity per 5-leaf eye to eye spring

Would these springs work on most any trailer? Of course I would change shackles and bolts, etc. Just curious (I own a 22 year old Cougar so a suspension upgrade that is reasonably priced might be in the cards.

That spring will "fit any axle configuration if the correct U-bolts are available"

In an emergency, using a 2900 pound spring set (if changing weight rating from OEM then change both sides of the axle) the 2900 pound spring will work for any axle up to the maximum rating of 5900 pounds (the sum of both springs).

Keep in mind that if installing them on a 2500 pound or a 3500 pound or even a 4400 pound axle, they will "fit under the trailer" (if it currently has 25.25" springs) but the ride could be different because the springs are "stiffer to support the 2900 pound rating" and the trailer may not "ride as smoothly as it did with lighter springs, so you could potentially damage the trailer with springs that are too stiff and transfer the road shock to the trailer frame.

In other words, the springs you found at TS will work in an emergency to get you home, even if they aren't the "ideal stiffness" to provide the optimal "cushioning" to protect your trailer frame. They'll get you home with the trailer in tow, unlike a broken spring on a "mono-leaf spring system" where the springs are not easy to buy locally in most areas. The last, if I remember correctly, was near San Antonio and the lady with the broken spring couldn't find a replacement anywhere around SA. Javi finally found her one, I believe up around Lockhart...

My point was to say that the "conventional multi-leaf spring system" is commonly used on cargo, flatbed, covered trailers as well as travel trailers. Those springs are usually available in most places. The "mono-leaf springs" are seldom used outside the RV industry and most trailer supply houses that cater to "all trailers" will seldom have them in stock. If you have a trailer with multi-leaf springs and one breaks, you can usually find a replacement but if you have a trailer with mono-leaf springs, you will probably end up stranded until the manufacturer ships you one from some distant warehouse. They aren't typically stocked at the dealer level even at trailer parts houses.

[BendCougarOwner]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Owners of literally every brand of RV can have issues...and they do. Keystone has no more of them than anyone else in my experience. Their Montana 5th wheel is the #1 selling luxury 5th wheel on the market so they must be doing something right. And yes, some people are happy with them and some are not....same as every RV brand out there.

Customer service is unfortunately brought up a lot. People don't understand the RV world. Your dealer is your customer service portal generally. They make or break an owner's service experience. The vast majority of the time a poor dealer causes an owner to blame Keystone, many times because the dealer blames them for work they don't want to perform (warranty). The owner gets up in arms then says something like you posted blaming Keystone. I've seen and heard of claims at a dealership that never made it to Keystone and Keystone was blamed. RV dealerships don't operate like an auto dealership in any fashion or form.

My advice for any potential buyer of any RV would be to vet the dealership you intend to use very closely. Talk to folks. Read reviews of them. They will be the ones that make you love or hate your trailer.

Unfortunately, in this case it is Keystone that responded directly to me stating that they can't do anything about the issue and not to contact them further as they consider the matter closed. We are taking the RV to a place that only repairs RV's and doesn't try to sell you a new one. We'll see what they say. Since I have done a lot of research on the slideouts (through the company that makes the mechanisms), I at least have a little more knowledge of what may be going on. Keystone just didn't want to admit they used wear bars that were crushing during a certain time frame. Again, this is according to the manufacturer of the mechanism.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by BendCougarOwner

Unfortunately, in this case it is Keystone that responded directly to me stating that they can't do anything about the issue and not to contact them further as they consider the matter closed. We are taking the RV to a place that only repairs RV's and doesn't try to sell you a new one. We'll see what they say. Since I have done a lot of research on the slideouts (through the company that makes the mechanisms), I at least have a little more knowledge of what may be going on. Keystone just didn't want to admit they used wear bars that were crushing during a certain time frame. Again, this is according to the manufacturer of the mechanism.

I have no doubt they did; your trailer is 6 years old so they have nothing to do with it at this point.

I've not found that you said what kind of slide(s) you have but going by the wear bar I'm going to assume cable. If so I've spoken to Norco at length as well about their system and the Keystone utilization of it. Their concerns in my conversations was with the use of darco on the bottom. The wear bar was talked about but they did not bring it up as a concern. I have read a very few times of crushed/broken wear bars. I'm not surprised by that either since they've put out hundreds of thousands of units with them.

If you're trying to get it replaced the slide needs to be removed optimally...or at least hyperextended so it can be taken out and a new one placed. Not hard to do other than that slide which IS a problem for an individual. Wear bar doesn't cost much, it's the labor. So when you go looking for someone to do this overall cost will be a consideration but they definitely need to know their way around a cable slide (if it is cable). If not you could end up with more headaches than you have.