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Old 11-03-2017, 06:00 PM   #1
ptooti
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New Warranty Details for 2018 - 19RB

Will see if I can share this PDF file the Keystone rep sent me.
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File Type: pdf Warranty Info.pdf (1.21 MB, 665 views)
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:15 PM   #2
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Hmmmm.....mine's a 2014 and I don't recall seeing that kind of warranty statement. Looks much better than what I've dealt with.....if there are no big disclaimers. Might have to look at a new one just to get the new warranty...
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:02 AM   #3
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Yep, all Keystones manufactured after 1 Sep are covered under this warranty.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:07 AM   #4
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That's a pretty good upgrade it looks like. Thank you Keystone. Now if they'd offer to allow purchase of second year warranty at a fair price, it would be even better.

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Old 11-08-2017, 02:16 PM   #5
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3-years of paint fade protection! That should change some things with all the front cap issues! Err.. I wonder if it covers decals?

Glad they're doing "something" here. Will note, however, that a lot of those line items that are included in the warranty are there "anyway" - such as water pumps, AC units, refrigerators, etc. They're just re-listing common parts covered by the manufacturer.

The structural warranty appears to be new. But the reality of that is that Keystone has some substantial liabilities under existing consumer protection laws, regardless of stating "out of warranty" after a year. IE - Juries generally don't like it when a new $65k RV has a frame failure after 14 months that is denied under warranty coverage. I think it's a good business plan to advertise the coverage instead of eat it on the back end and make consumers jump through hoops if they make a major mistake.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:14 PM   #6
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Frame is not part of structure, structure is the box. Most of the decals are automotive grade with 3-5 year warranty depending on the location and brand. For example front cap might be 5 and sidewall could be 3. Some also have a shorter decal warranty depending on region of the country. Desert Southwest is shorter for some brands.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:16 PM   #7
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Be durn nice if the dealers could fix something.
I swear I would buy one with no warranty at a reduced price.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:50 PM   #8
brad freeman
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hi i need some advice,wisdom or support or just plain help from the forum i purchased a 2018 Alpine (9/30/17) really excited to finally get the a quality RV,we have owned a 27ft nomad,29ft outback,32ft Columbus, and now our 3660 Alpine. My wife was extremely happy to get it as I. we left the dealership drove 27mi to our first campground. we set up as you normally would and spent our first night in our new home. I went outside the next morning and water was pouring out of the belly of my new camper, i quickly turn the supply off and called the dealership to get help,they couldn't help and simply told me to come back with the camper monday because they didnt have anyone to look at it till then and ask me to search it out to see if i could find it, there was a time in my life where i never ask anyone to help because I could do home repairs, but because of a car accident that left me paralyzed from the waist down 10yrs ago kind of creates a few issues for me now i depend on those who lead me to believe that if i buy there product they will stand behind it because your buying from a honorable business. Well since i couldn't get there help my wife told me that she would try her best if i could just tell her what to do,so i had her climb in the storage compartment just under the front living room. i told her how to get the panels out and then she says i believe i found the problem water is spraying out off the dishwasher(inline filter improperly installed) well problem solved. am I wrong to feel that i should have been able to count on the dealership to have been more interested in helping me after i just gave them a large part of our saving? why is it that i get the feeling that the quick and eager speed that they got my business was not met with the same kinda of response not even 24hrs later. I,m not dissatisfied with my RV just the folks who i wish i could say was a pleasure to do business with. This all took place 9/1/17 NOW fast forward to 10/19/17 we are coming down I95 just south of Dillon Sc and the heads up trailer brake display comes on and tells me trailer brakes disconnected so i press the controller and had no brakes so i found a safe spot to stop and check the wiring or my wife did because i can't walk back and check and it was in place so we started down the interstate and before i could get up to 60mph the warning came on again. Well i found a place to stop and this time i had my wife move the trailer plugin from the inside plug to the bumper plug, we took off and before i ever got a 100 yards the warning came on and this is still happening. i have brakes i don't have brakes back and fourth. yesterday i called the dealership thought i would just give them a shot well they told me that to take it to the nearest camping world and they could work on it. i wasn't surprised after all they didn't help with my first cry for help so i called the CW here where i live and explain that i was reluctant to pull the camper with the brakes not working and me being Physical challenged so they ask me where i bought it and then told me to call them back and ask the dealership where i bought it to ok a tow, i thank them and called the dealership the service dept. told me that they don't do this and suggested i call good sam travel club so i did the lady was very nice and put me in touch with a mobile repair person that after talking with him told me that he would be glad to come and do the repairs but suggested i call the dealer so that the warranty could cover it. I said everything to say this WHAT AM I TO DO? iv done everything iv been told to do and still have gain no ground. do i get mad and show out to the dealership where i bought it or do i just chance pulling this 36ft 27miles to dealer or do i call Keystone and hope that they will be genuinely be concern about my issue or do i just except that even though i have a warranty it is no good. I am quite aggravate to say the least. Is there any honor in a mans word anymore or even a business. So please offer advice,help or just plain common sense. does anyone remember the commercial where the old lady throws the bad tire the window of the tire store.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad freeman View Post
hi i need some advice,wisdom or support or just plain help from the forum i purchased a 2018 Alpine (9/30/17) really excited to finally get the a quality RV,we have owned a 27ft nomad,29ft outback,32ft Columbus, and now our 3660 Alpine. My wife was extremely happy to get it as I. we left the dealership drove 27mi to our first campground. we set up as you normally would and spent our first night in our new home. I went outside the next morning and water was pouring out of the belly of my new camper, i quickly turn the supply off and called the dealership to get help,they couldn't help and simply told me to come back with the camper monday because they didnt have anyone to look at it till then and ask me to search it out to see if i could find it, there was a time in my life where i never ask anyone to help because I could do home repairs, but because of a car accident that left me paralyzed from the waist down 10yrs ago kind of creates a few issues for me now i depend on those who lead me to believe that if i buy there product they will stand behind it because your buying from a honorable business. Well since i couldn't get there help my wife told me that she would try her best if i could just tell her what to do,so i had her climb in the storage compartment just under the front living room. i told her how to get the panels out and then she says i believe i found the problem water is spraying out off the dishwasher(inline filter improperly installed) well problem solved. am I wrong to feel that i should have been able to count on the dealership to have been more interested in helping me after i just gave them a large part of our saving? why is it that i get the feeling that the quick and eager speed that they got my business was not met with the same kinda of response not even 24hrs later. I,m not dissatisfied with my RV just the folks who i wish i could say was a pleasure to do business with. This all took place 9/1/17 NOW fast forward to 10/19/17 we are coming down I95 just south of Dillon Sc and the heads up trailer brake display comes on and tells me trailer brakes disconnected so i press the controller and had no brakes so i found a safe spot to stop and check the wiring or my wife did because i can't walk back and check and it was in place so we started down the interstate and before i could get up to 60mph the warning came on again. Well i found a place to stop and this time i had my wife move the trailer plugin from the inside plug to the bumper plug, we took off and before i ever got a 100 yards the warning came on and this is still happening. i have brakes i don't have brakes back and fourth. yesterday i called the dealership thought i would just give them a shot well they told me that to take it to the nearest camping world and they could work on it. i wasn't surprised after all they didn't help with my first cry for help so i called the CW here where i live and explain that i was reluctant to pull the camper with the brakes not working and me being Physical challenged so they ask me where i bought it and then told me to call them back and ask the dealership where i bought it to ok a tow, i thank them and called the dealership the service dept. told me that they don't do this and suggested i call good sam travel club so i did the lady was very nice and put me in touch with a mobile repair person that after talking with him told me that he would be glad to come and do the repairs but suggested i call the dealer so that the warranty could cover it. I said everything to say this WHAT AM I TO DO? iv done everything iv been told to do and still have gain no ground. do i get mad and show out to the dealership where i bought it or do i just chance pulling this 36ft 27miles to dealer or do i call Keystone and hope that they will be genuinely be concern about my issue or do i just except that even though i have a warranty it is no good. I am quite aggravate to say the least. Is there any honor in a mans word anymore or even a business. So please offer advice,help or just plain common sense. does anyone remember the commercial where the old lady throws the bad tire the window of the tire store.
Brad, not sure what tow vehicle you have, but the connection issue has come up several times on the forum. My Chevy Silverado used to do this and never figures it out. I upgraded my truck, problem solved! The best advice I recieved was to replace the umbilical cord with one made by the same company as the trucks plug manufacturer. Also, make sure that you really don't have an issue with the brakes. Are all the magnets ok n place and no shorts? I had my dealer check mine to eliminate thst as a source.

Also, you may want to post your question into it's own thread instead of adding it to someone else's. Good luck.

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Old 11-09-2017, 03:35 AM   #10
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Well from what I seen and read on that PDF file, the main frame is covered in that along with all the steel crossmembers. The statement that has me wondering is,
 
THIS STRUCTURAL WARRANTY COVERS THE WORKMANSHIP ATTRIBUTABLE TO KEYSTONE’S MANUFACTURING AND ASSEMBLY OF THE STRUCTURAL PORTIONS OF YOUR RV.

Since Keystone doesn't really manufacture the frame...can it be considered attributable to their manufacturing. We'll see I guess. Unfortunately mine was built before that also.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:06 AM   #11
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Tinner, just like with the appliances, which are covered by the manufacturer, the frame is covered by Lippert. Keystone tries to do one stop shop for warranty when the can and they include blanket statements about other components under the warranty as long as the warranty of the other item falls within the same time period, it’s easier than listing out all of the different warranties separately. Basically, they would work with Lippert, Dometic, Suburban, whoever to cover your warranty claim.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:11 AM   #12
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Brad, sorry to hear that you are experiencing some problems with the warranty on your Alpine. As far as your dealer, I don’t really see where they did anything wrong. If they had a mobile repair service it would be different. All warranty work has to be approved by the manufacturer before the repairs are completed. Without a mobile service, they can only do that at the facility. If they make an exception for you, they would have to do it for everyone. As for the brake issue, again, it’s unknown if the problem is your truck or the RV, so they can not approve warranty repairs without inspecting it. A mobile service won’t go and inspect it for free.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad freeman View Post
hi i need some advice,wisdom or support or just plain help from the forum i purchased a 2018 Alpine (9/30/17) really excited to finally get the a quality RV,we have owned a 27ft nomad,29ft outback,32ft Columbus, and now our 3660 Alpine. My wife was extremely happy to get it as I. we left the dealership drove 27mi to our first campground. we set up as you normally would and spent our first night in our new home. I went outside the next morning and water was pouring out of the belly of my new camper, i quickly turn the supply off and called the dealership to get help,they couldn't help and simply told me to come back with the camper monday because they didnt have anyone to look at it till then and ask me to search it out to see if i could find it, there was a time in my life where i never ask anyone to help because I could do home repairs, but because of a car accident that left me paralyzed from the waist down 10yrs ago kind of creates a few issues for me now i depend on those who lead me to believe that if i buy there product they will stand behind it because your buying from a honorable business. Well since i couldn't get there help my wife told me that she would try her best if i could just tell her what to do,so i had her climb in the storage compartment just under the front living room. i told her how to get the panels out and then she says i believe i found the problem water is spraying out off the dishwasher(inline filter improperly installed) well problem solved. am I wrong to feel that i should have been able to count on the dealership to have been more interested in helping me after i just gave them a large part of our saving? why is it that i get the feeling that the quick and eager speed that they got my business was not met with the same kinda of response not even 24hrs later. I,m not dissatisfied with my RV just the folks who i wish i could say was a pleasure to do business with. This all took place 9/1/17 NOW fast forward to 10/19/17 we are coming down I95 just south of Dillon Sc and the heads up trailer brake display comes on and tells me trailer brakes disconnected so i press the controller and had no brakes so i found a safe spot to stop and check the wiring or my wife did because i can't walk back and check and it was in place so we started down the interstate and before i could get up to 60mph the warning came on again. Well i found a place to stop and this time i had my wife move the trailer plugin from the inside plug to the bumper plug, we took off and before i ever got a 100 yards the warning came on and this is still happening. i have brakes i don't have brakes back and fourth. yesterday i called the dealership thought i would just give them a shot well they told me that to take it to the nearest camping world and they could work on it. i wasn't surprised after all they didn't help with my first cry for help so i called the CW here where i live and explain that i was reluctant to pull the camper with the brakes not working and me being Physical challenged so they ask me where i bought it and then told me to call them back and ask the dealership where i bought it to ok a tow, i thank them and called the dealership the service dept. told me that they don't do this and suggested i call good sam travel club so i did the lady was very nice and put me in touch with a mobile repair person that after talking with him told me that he would be glad to come and do the repairs but suggested i call the dealer so that the warranty could cover it. I said everything to say this WHAT AM I TO DO? iv done everything iv been told to do and still have gain no ground. do i get mad and show out to the dealership where i bought it or do i just chance pulling this 36ft 27miles to dealer or do i call Keystone and hope that they will be genuinely be concern about my issue or do i just except that even though i have a warranty it is no good. I am quite aggravate to say the least. Is there any honor in a mans word anymore or even a business. So please offer advice,help or just plain common sense. does anyone remember the commercial where the old lady throws the bad tire the window of the tire store.


Brad, I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles with your new trailer. Not to cast stones, but that leak should have been found on either the dealer's PDI inspection or your own it sounds like. It's also a reason that I would spend the first night or two by the selling dealer if I was buying some distance from "home".

The brake situation has been discussed multiple times on the forum and may or may not be an issue with the trailer. I know those are not things that provide any solace or answers but they are just the way it is.

I know that when we buy a new trailer we all want to think that it's the best out there and everything is going to be perfect. Unfortunately, in real life, and by many accounts on this and other forums, that's not the case. It's just another reason that any of us that buy a new camper need to go above and beyond on inspections and checking things before taking delivery. I wish you all the luck in getting this situation resolved quickly and with the least amount of frustration and inconvenience.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:09 PM   #14
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I was looking at fb page about unhappy customers and reading about how happy some folks that found the fb site and didn't buy keystones. Keystones needs to do something. I fixed everything because a pencil pushing dealer . The warranty is only as good as the dealer . My H W
dealer is trained to pass the buck . So the warranty there isn't worth the papper it's on. Quality control would be better then fake news about warranty
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:09 PM   #15
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The FB page seems to have shutdown the ability to comment. I'm actually surprised that the page has lasted this long. The page used to get a lot of comments. I suspect that terminating the ability for new comments is a leveraged decision.

I'd say that warranty is only as good as the combination of dealer (making well documented and well written warranty claims) and Keystone's ability to pay appropriately for a repair. Keystone does not pay "market rates" for repairs - and as such some dealers de-priroritize warranty claims over other work, which pushes warranty to the back of the line. And often their "covered" or approved repairs do not include what is typically necessary to return the RV to "like new" state (see documentation on authorized roof repairs). The dealers are stuck. They want the largest brand footprint, then they have to accept the rates of repair work and non-market rate for repairs. Consumers are stuck in the middle.

Keystone's warranty (at least on my 2015) was full of loopholes - including "cosmetic" loopholes. For my roof (and the roof of other people) this meant that a factory defect could be fixed with a repair that looked like crap as long as it didn't leak. In at least one case, courts have disagreed with Keystone's warranty disclaimer and have ruled (with significant punitive damages) that if they fix it under warranty it has to both perform like new (no leaks) and look like new with no loss of value for the consumer. Watching BBB complaints, there still seems to be some non-factory repair warranty work going on, at least on roofs. I do NOT blame the dealer for this. Nor do I blame the roof material manufacturer for this (repairs run contrary to installation specs) - I think this is a manufacturer and "bottom dollar" issue.

It's easy for a business to document sales of RVs. It's hard to document (or prove) what impact long term quality has on sales. And honestly, this seems to be much more a function of market economy than it is a function of brand "quality reputation". Exacerbating the problem is that Keystone pays line staff "by the unit" not by quality, not taking into account returns to the factory or warranty payout. That is, if you get it past line QA (they do have quality inspectors) and churn out your number of units for the day, you get to go home, but still get paid for a full day of work. (Ref: Glassdoor comments from their employees)

The auto industry got railed for this (eventually) as states enacted lemon laws - creating real product liability for manufacturers. Lemon laws (generally, not always) do not apply to RVs. And auto manufacturing became more and more standardized and automated to deal with high consumer expectations. This isn't going to happen in the RV industry... At least not in my lifetime.

You'll see that Keystone's new warranty has gone "up" from a 1-year full coverage deal to multi-year on things like frame components. I, personally, applaud this, but I also know that Keystone has lost their shirt when consumer challenge a frame failure on a 70k RV, even at 1.5 years out - past warranty - that's simply not a reasonable period of failure - attorneys sue under implied warranty and magnuson-moss. A good deal (IMHO) of the warranty improvement is just marketing spin on components that have that sort of coverage anyway - or the Keystone knows they'd "better cover" outside of warranty (like a frame repair) within 3 years of sale.

Thor (owns Keystone) is substantially the largest manufacturer of RVs. And honestly, what I read about the 2nd in line - Forest River, they aren't much better.

The most objective metric I can find is this: https://www.rvt.com/blog/trends/rv-m...s-and-reviews/

Which does rank Thor AND Keytone (same entity, really) dead last in quality.

Thor is also the largest player in the market, so it's going to be hard to argue the sheer business economics of how they are doing it... And RV sales are breaking records again. They're simply selling more RVs than anyone despite quality ratings. If I was an RV exec, why they heck would I change the model? Simply put: I wouldn't. I'd argue that increasing quality (costs) and making consumers happy (more/better customer service) isn't going to improve the #1 position of Thor in the RV industry.

As a consumer, I'd prefer if Keystone moved to Grand Design's (now owned by Winnebago) repair model - but honestly, you pay significantly more for a Grand Design. We can't get it at Keystone's price and have Grand Design flexibility and reputation for warranty repairs...
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