Ranking Keystone models

[Thomasbeau]

This may seem like an odd question, but is there a listing someplace which lists the various Keystone models by level of luxury/quality. I'm curious to know how all the models rank and where my new Hideout fits in the hierarchy.

[busterbrown]

Simply put, Hideouts, Bullets, and Passports are all value-driven coaches. The luxury lines would include Montana 5th wheels and Raptor TH's. Most of the other brands fall somewhere in the middle.

[Thomasbeau]

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added? I'd hate to think we made a mistake by going with a Hideout. We noticed immediately that the cabinetry was not of the highest quality but that was a non-issue. The biggest thing that bothered us was the lack of pistons to hold up the overhead cabinet doors when opened. Having to hold the doors open with one hand drove us nuts. I added pistons to them myself the first week we owned the unit. Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by Thomasbeau

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added?... ...Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

With my Bullet, I came to the conclusion after purchase that I would just upgrade as I saw fit along the way. Cosmetically, an owner can do most of the little things. But it goes deeper than cheap faucets and lack of outlets.

Read about my troubles over the weekend...

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=34888

I spoke with a very experienced and reputable trailer axle and suspension shop this morning. A 40 year veteran there told me that most people buy a coach because it has a fancy pretty LED strip under the countertops or a fireplace below the TV. People rarely look at the underpinnings or internal structure of the coach prior to purchase. It's just fact. I didn't. And if you walk around an RV show, you'll see that most people don't even care about axle or frame size, or even more important tire fitments. It's the aesthetics that sell units.

Ultimately, I'll end up spending thousands next year to upgrade everything below the frame rails.

[sourdough]

When pulling up RVs Keystone used to place each model under headings of "standard", "select" or "premium". You could then tell where each model stood in the pecking order. They have changed that in the last 2-3 years and they've made it much more difficult to determine where each model fits. You either have to look at all of them very closely in person or read the information on them very closely. It appears they don't want to have any of the models appear as "economy" units although some clearly are when compared side by side.

I am attaching a link to Keystone's website that has the brochures for the Hideout, Montana and Montana HC. You will have to download and open them. I downloaded them but am unable to provide a link because they are on my desktop. Read them carefully to discern the different wording and terminology as they try to differentiate the levels of the trailers. I pulled up the Hideout east coast brochure.

https://www.keystonerv.com/lead-acti...u/?p=3255,3281

[JRTJH]

As Danny posted, "Keystone used to...." but their marketing department is currently taking a different approach to how the portray their RV lines.

The information is still available, you just have to do some "sleuthing" to find it. On the Keystone website, if you click on "showroom" a new page will open with all of the brands listed alphabetically. Under each brand are three categories: Starting MSRP, Starting Length and Starting Weight.

You can essentially use the MSRP and length to determine the "price per foot" of each brand and each model. You can't use "only the MSRP" because a trailer line starting at 16,000 and a trailer line starting at 23,000 may not reflect the cheapest built (yes, I used "cheapest" to describe it purposely) trailer may not be the 16,000 one if that line starts at 16' and the 23,000 line starts at 30'. Calculating the two, the "cheapest" trailer would be the 23,000 line at 766 per foot vs the 16,000 line at 1,000 per foot.....

Put on your "Sherlock spectacles" and do your homework.....

Start here: https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/

[jsb5717]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

You can essentially use the MSRP and length to determine the "price per foot" of each brand and each model. You can't use "only the MSRP" because a trailer line starting at 16,000 and a trailer line starting at 23,000 may not reflect the cheapest built (yes, I used "cheapest" to describe it purposely) trailer may not be the 16,000 one if that line starts at 16' and the 23,000 line starts at 30'. Calculating the two, the "cheapest" trailer would be the 23,000 line at 766 per foot vs the 16,000 line at 1,000 per foot.....

Put on your "Sherlock spectacles" and do your homework.....

Start here: https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/

Sorry to drag up an old thread but was just looking for this information. I used John's suggestion and created a spreadsheet based on current model offerings and MSRP. They are in order from most to least expensive. If that is an indicator of the order of quality then here it is.

[Pull Toy]

Alpine and Montana have always been considered the "Top of the line" Keystone offerings in non toy boxes.

Based on 5 years of ownership on my current 2013, 3535RE I can state the following without reservation. I have owned "Box" campers since 1970and my Alpine is top shelf in both trim and fit and finish. All of my appliances and fittings are name brand, high end stuff. My TVs and sound system are SAMSUNG, not XYZ, (maybe surplus, discontinued sh*t), and my interior lighting is factory LEDS, not retrofits upgrades too! My woodwork is "Cabinet Maker" quality solid Cherry wood, hand fit and finished, and hand rubbed, and my extras are included, not dealer retrofit add ons, that may or may not work to buyers desired levels. ( Second A/C, Heat Pump, fireplace/aux.electric heater Integrated climate control, dual zone thermostat.

I definitely don't consider myself a "5'er snob", and those who know me on this site can vouch for that. I bought an ALPINE ( plus the mortgage) because I wanted a "High End" second home, not a particle board POS with staples, not tongue in groove, and unknown namebrands. DO you want premium appliances" and quality? Just pull out a drawer and TRULY inspect it! It is the tell-tale of build quality!

p.s. You get what you pay for, there ain't no free lunch. (Chevy vs Caddy, they're both great!) The frames are all Lippert. It's what's above the I-beam that creates your dream home! Just decide your BUDGET is, and go from there. Don't overextend for a NAME BRAND, you only get one chance to get it right!

GOOD LUCK,

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by sourdough

When pulling up RVs Keystone used to place each model under headings of "standard", "select" or "premium". You could then tell where each model stood in the pecking order. They have changed that in the last 2-3 years and they've made it much more difficult to determine where each model fits. You either have to look at all of them very closely in person or read the information on them very closely. It appears they don't want to have any of the models appear as "economy" units although some clearly are when compared side by side.

I am attaching a link to Keystone's website that has the brochures for the Hideout, Montana and Montana HC. You will have to download and open them. I downloaded them but am unable to provide a link because they are on my desktop. Read them carefully to discern the different wording and terminology as they try to differentiate the levels of the trailers. I pulled up the Hideout east coast brochure.

https://www.keystonerv.com/lead-acti...u/?p=3255,3281

Just wanted to resurrect this old post:

As this thread alluded to, Keystone is apparently working very hard to make sure they don't differentiate between their various lines by price point or quality delineations, which is unfair IMO. I DO believe in "you get what you pay for". Seems they worry more about weight and what can pull this or that.

All that to say; I keep thinking I'm going to "upgrade" my trailer so I keep looking.....and looking. Just trying to get Keystone to enlighten me on "their" definition of the quality levels of their various models, I sent a detailed request to Keystone customer service/owner relations.....over 2 weeks ago with no response.

Although I think it would be a service to Keystone owners, and potential owners, to know the quality levels of the units they buy and how they fit in the "pecking order" (including all the "upgraded amenities/construction" to make them more luxurious) so they can determine what they want, it is painfully apparent that they have determined that they want to blur the lines so you don't have any idea if you are getting a top of the line unit or not. What to do? The only thing I can think of, and for the consumer it is ridiculous, is to look at any/all of them so you can compare. I would also suggest talking to the service manager at your dealership. Salesmen are questionable; the ones I've talked to (and I always stipulate the biggest and nicest the manufacturer makes) will ALWAYS take you to the best unit.....THAT THEY HAVE. If they don't have a better unit, they don't even mention them. Appears we just have a crap shoot any more.

[Logan X]

I knew my Hideout was entry level when we bought it. It was our first RV and we have small kids that like to tear stuff up, so entry level is what I was looking for. I have been impressed with this trailer. We have had it for almost 3 years and we have camped in it about 30 or 40 times. There have been no major issues and my four kids aren’t known for being gentle with stuff. All of the essential systems and the build quality (the frame, suspension, etc) have been great. Any small thing that went wrong or something cheap we wanted to upgrade, I was able to do myself. My main complaint is the C load rated tires it came with. I haven’t had a problem with them but I am going to upgrade them soon.

[bobbecky]

Originally Posted by Thomasbeau

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added? I'd hate to think we made a mistake by going with a Hideout. We noticed immediately that the cabinetry was not of the highest quality but that was a non-issue. The biggest thing that bothered us was the lack of pistons to hold up the overhead cabinet doors when opened. Having to hold the doors open with one hand drove us nuts. I added pistons to them myself the first week we owned the unit. Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

Even our 2012 Montana didn't have door supports for the cabinets with doors hinged at the top, had to do as you and add them myself. Just remember, the more 'luxury' you add, the more the rig is going to weigh, so not only quality is a factor but everything is a compromise for a reason.

[Dadmech]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Even our 2012 Montana didn't have door supports for the cabinets with doors hinged at the top, had to do as you and add them myself. Just remember, the more 'luxury' you add, the more the rig is going to weigh, so not only quality is a factor but everything is a compromise for a reason.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the door pistons from?
Our 2018 Hideout 38FDDS didn't come with them either.
Thanks!

[Thomasbeau]

Here are the door pistons I purchased for our Hideout. Worked perfectly.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Canonman]

We're pretty happy with our Cougar. Not a high end trailer for sure, but it had all the features we wanted at a price we could live with.
Here's a video you might find interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6nlnInrxgg&t=6s

[Thomasbeau]

I have to say that it's been over a month now since we bought the Hideout. After doing some homework it seems to me that the Hideout is the least expensive in the Keystone line. We didn't realize that when we purchased but loved the floor plan and for the DW that was the one.

We have been on two weekender trips with it so far with zero issues. We have made some mods to a lot of the internal amenities to make this similar to the 2005 Wildcat 5'er we traded in. Probably spent another $1000 to bring it up to what we wanted but to us well worth it. It's the perfect rig for us right now. So as long as the structural build quality is up to par I'm thinking we're good.

[Laredo Tugger]

We traded a FR TT for our used Laredo 350FB.
We were looking at a new FR 5er that, but looking back it was nowhere near the quality of the Laredo.
I'm not sure where Laredo falls in the pecking order of the Keystone lineup,but it is more than enough trailer and quality for me.
RMc

[wiredgeorge]

My 5ver is the highest quality and best ever built... hold on a few minutes while I go out and look at what the model is; it is on the decals and the specific model is written next to the door. Just an FYI, unless an owner is really mad about unit issues, they will crow to the world that their buying choice was better than sliced bread.

[travelin texans]

We have what has become Keystones premium 5th wheel in the last couple years, the Redwood line, & my '13 is very nice as far as fit/finish, all wood cabinets, plywood not OSB flooring, still suffering from lack of QC on little things like all rvs, but was lacking in the suspension/tire area. I've upgraded all the shackles, wet bolts, added disc brakes & H rated tires, which by the way most of these are standard now, making it a very nice 5er.
I totally agree, if more folks would read a few different forums like this one BEFORE buying any rv they'd learn to look under them before being awestruck by all the bling inside.

[wiredgeorge]

That phony fireplace and tv popping up from a cabinet via remote control makes me almost want to spend my money on a "premium" trailer. Then I find out they are all pretty much built the same way with the same just-barely getting by suspensions, framing and insulation, I come back to earth. If you want top of the line, look at these bad boys:
https://luxefifthwheel.com/

Check out prices on rvtrader for a new rig. NOTHING under $150K Geesh, that is more than we paid for our house! (it has been a few years though)

[AbHDToyHauler]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

That phony fireplace and tv popping up from a cabinet via remote control makes me almost want to spend my money on a "premium" trailer. Then I find out they are all pretty much built the same way with the same just-barely getting by suspensions, framing and insulation, I come back to earth. If you want top of the line, look at these bad boys:
https://luxefifthwheel.com/

Check out prices on rvtrader for a new rig. NOTHING under $150K Geesh, that is more than we paid for our house! (it has been a few years though)

Their "top of the Line " toy hauler didn't seem all that much better then my Fuzion to me? A few things looked good but for the most part seems to be the same unit for big money. LOL To each their own.