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02-24-2018, 08:49 AM
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#41
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,669
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Thanks for that illustration - and it's so true. And as a side note; I bought a brand new Chevy C10 pickup (back then just reg cab, long bed. 4 speed, no air, radio etc.) for $3100. Traded in my old faithful and fun 1959 Ford F100. I had reupholstered the bench seat with new, thick foam and a super soft (I had never seen it before) vinyl? cover that was SOOOO comfortable. I hated to see that go more than anything...........
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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02-24-2018, 09:36 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,034
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Yeah Danny..me too. New 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner, no options...$2880 at Newton-Smith Chrysler in Houston. I drove it like you would expect I would. Only thing that broke was the speedometer cable. Can't imagine why.
I don't remember a mention of the Quality Control Department when we took the factory tour. Could have been though.
But like John said, the sheer number of units that Keystone pushes out the door the number of defects will be staggering. On a statistical basis, I don't know.
I guess it depends on the business model. I believe the quality of Bigfoots are very high. But they only make so many of them, and that isn't very many. It's individually owned, not a corporate conglomerate. A new cabover is pushing $40,000 ($50,000 MSRP) and a medium size travel trailer is crowding $60,000. In this case I believe you do get what you pay for.
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2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
2023 CanAm Defender SXS
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02-24-2018, 10:01 AM
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#43
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Just a quick comparison that I found somewhat "contradictory to reason"....
We tout the benefit of owning a "hand built custom car" as better than one produced on an assembly line by robots, yet we want our travel trailer to be "improved" by using robots on the assembly line because "hand built" has problems......
Yeah, I know, "but it's different with travel trailers than with other things".....
Hurry up spring, it's time to dig the pole barn door out of the snow bank and drag the Cougar somewhere warm for a few days......
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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02-24-2018, 01:47 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Northeast Florida/Southeast Maine
Posts: 784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead
... I don't remember a mention of the Quality Control Department when we took the factory tour. Could have been though. ...
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We took the Bullet Premier factory tour in May of 2017. We had to wait for our tour guide (I think he was actually a sales rep) so we watched videos in the lounge. Each one stressed "Quality is Job 1" (sorry Ford) or something similar. Then during the tour we saw literally hundreds of tape marks on the units which we were informed indicated someone from the QC department found something they didn't like and had to be addressed. Given the latter (which to me means more than promotional videos) a lot obviously slips through the cracks.
Speaking of spring and warmth - lower 80s here today. A very strange winter.
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Now: 2019 Winnebago 2500FL w/e2 WDH;Sold: 2015 Bullet Premier 19FBPR (shown)
2012 Ford F-250 Lariat Super Duty Crew Cab (gas 6.2 L, 3.73 gear ratio 2WD, 172" WB)
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02-24-2018, 02:55 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 551
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These are just a few of the things I've found in our new Cougar 22RBS. I've fixed a bunch of other little stuff already.
Water pump held down by three out if four screws, the fourth was driven clean through the mounting foot. The inlet connection is hard up against the wall of the box and you can see where it's digging into the wood.
Everywhere there's a pipe or wire coming up through the floor there's a big hole not sealed up at all. The underbelly is enclosed pretty well but no insulation at all under the floors so it's essentially open to the outside.
The plumbing under the bathroom sink is all cock-eyed and the vent was only screwed in a few threads.
The wiring and piping mess behind the converter where you have to reach back in to get to the water heater bypass valve. You can see the control wiring for the water heater is so wrapped around other stuff that it's stretched super tight and just waiting to fail.
This is just crappy work ethics. Sure everything works and most of this stuff is hidden away so most people might not ever see it. If you built a house like this you wouldn't be in business long. And no self respecting tradesman would put out work like this!
Could I ask the dealer to fix it, sure but it would be more of a hassle to spend hours hauling it back and forth and probably still be a half assed fix.
I have the time and skills to fix this up right and enjoy doing it so that's what I'll do.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
__________________
2018 Keystone Cougar 22RBS
2020 Ford F-350 XLT SC SRW 6.7l Powerstroke.
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02-25-2018, 10:16 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 375
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I once talked to Keystone about warranty issues. After the closet doors hardware had been replaced twice under warranty and still failed, I built my own. Before starting, I contacted Keystone and spoke to an agent who authorized me to go ahead with the repair and furnish them with my expenses and I would be reimbursed. Few weeks later, I called again to tell him I was mailing the invoices; he no longer worked there and no one else knew anything about it. Their position was that since I did not have advance approval, no reimbursement. I have no idea why he left; maybe he wasn't authorized to tell me what he did.
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02-25-2018, 09:33 PM
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#47
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Livingston
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo57
These are just a few of the things I've found in our new Cougar 22RBS. I've fixed a bunch of other little stuff already.
Water pump held down by three out if four screws, the fourth was driven clean through the mounting foot. The inlet connection is hard up against the wall of the box and you can see where it's digging into the wood.
Everywhere there's a pipe or wire coming up through the floor there's a big hole not sealed up at all. The underbelly is enclosed pretty well but no insulation at all under the floors so it's essentially open to the outside.
The plumbing under the bathroom sink is all cock-eyed and the vent was only screwed in a few threads.
The wiring and piping mess behind the converter where you have to reach back in to get to the water heater bypass valve. You can see the control wiring for the water heater is so wrapped around other stuff that it's stretched super tight and just waiting to fail.
This is just crappy work ethics. Sure everything works and most of this stuff is hidden away so most people might not ever see it. If you built a house like this you wouldn't be in business long. And no self respecting tradesman would put out work like this!
Could I ask the dealer to fix it, sure but it would be more of a hassle to spend hours hauling it back and forth and probably still be a half assed fix.
I have the time and skills to fix this up right and enjoy doing it so that's what I'll do. Attachment 15393Attachment 15394Attachment 15395Attachment 15396
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Great pictures. How did you access the back of the water heater? Did you have to unscrew the panel next to the converter? Same for under the bathroom sink to access the electrical cord? Is the floorboard to access the water pump easy to remove? Have you located the black tank vacuum breaker? I usually replace the OEM with a brass Watts version.
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03-02-2018, 08:35 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTexRex
Great pictures. How did you access the back of the water heater? Did you have to unscrew the panel next to the converter? Same for under the bathroom sink to access the electrical cord? Is the floorboard to access the water pump easy to remove? Have you located the black tank vacuum breaker? I usually replace the OEM with a brass Watts version.
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The water heater is accessed through the panel next to the power panel. Just two screws and it comes off. The panel under the bathroom sink is the same and gets you access to the power cord and the plumbing.
The water pump is on a little box next the side of the bed that just lifts up from one edge and uses the carpet as a hinge.
One big problem I found was that the pass through storage access doors leaked terribly. The water leaked in from the hinge and around the screws holding the door in on the side of the frame. I found a big puddle of water next to the bed one day and tracked it back to there. So I crawled in the storage area and had my wife spray the hose and saw it running right in. I could also see daylight around one of the doors because it doesn't look like they used any sealant around the outside of the frame and the only thing sealing it up is a bead of clear caulk on the outside edge of the frame. I sealed up the hinge and screws with some pro flex and it's dry as a bone now with the noreaster we are having here in Connecticut. I'll probably take the doors out and seal them up good this summer.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
__________________
2018 Keystone Cougar 22RBS
2020 Ford F-350 XLT SC SRW 6.7l Powerstroke.
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03-02-2018, 06:12 PM
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#49
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Livingston
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo57
One big problem I found was that the pass through storage access doors leaked terribly. The water leaked in from the hinge and around the screws holding the door in on the side of the frame. I found a big puddle of water next to the bed one day and tracked it back to there. So I crawled in the storage area and had my wife spray the hose and saw it running right in. I could also see daylight around one of the doors because it doesn't look like they used any sealant around the outside of the frame and the only thing sealing it up is a bead of clear caulk on the outside edge of the frame. I sealed up the hinge and screws with some pro flex and it's dry as a bone now with the noreaster we are having here in Connecticut. I'll probably take the doors out and seal them up good this summer.
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Thank you...good stuff to know, I will check mine and seal.
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03-02-2018, 07:47 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Just a quick comparison that I found somewhat "contradictory to reason"....
We tout the benefit of owning a "hand built custom car" as better than one produced on an assembly line by robots, yet we want our travel trailer to be "improved" by using robots on the assembly line because "hand built" has problems......
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LOL, John, that's why we have soft drinks with "artificial flavoring" and dishwashing liquid with "real lemon".
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03-06-2018, 03:34 PM
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#51
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,669
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Just to add a little to the mix on quality;
Finally met a fellow that's been in the park for several days. Came in with a new dually and a new Mobile Suites 5th wheel. Now, in my ranking of RVs the Mobile Suites products have always been up there in my mind....and it IS pretty. Said he had just bought it before this trip and it has been terrible....it's falling apart; plumbing, roof, woodwork and on and on. He's terribly upset with the product and Mobile Suites. As we've said all along....they all have issues; 10k or 500k.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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06-08-2018, 06:30 PM
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#52
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Friendship
Posts: 34
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6th night into our first travel trailer experience and I have to say I am pleased with how well the trailer (Cougar 26RBS) is performing. Everything (seems to be) working as designed except a gray tank valve (at delivery we noted absence of valve pull handle, dealer installed a new one, which apparently came adrift in our travels. Not a big deal but it also turns out the associated valve must be jammed open, as the tank contents are in the outlet pipe despite the appearance of it being closed based on valve rod position.).
Kudos to our dealer, Lee Family Trailers in Windham Maine for delivery a clean, properly prepped trailer. They’ll fix the valve upon our return.
Fingers crossed things keep working. We really like the trailer.
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06-09-2018, 04:18 PM
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#53
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Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV
I think this is an essential point. When you're purchasing an RV, it seems to be "buyer beware" in spades. I don't say that to criticize the industry, I say that because it seems (from a lot of comments I read) that some buyers think RVs are built to the same standard as cars ... They aren't.
Also, RVs in the US are waaaay cheaper than in other countries. I live in Australia, and the TT I will be picking up in June is priced in the low 20s for a 30 foot trailer. Here in Oz, a trailer that size would cost you over 100 grand!
I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to get for my $$$ and how it will stand up to being towed around the country. I saw a comment by a YouTube'er the other day that towing your TT around the country is similar to your house undergoing an earthquake for a few hours at a time. Couple that with how lightly built some trailers are and you gotta know things are gonna break from time to time.
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Yes to the earthquake and then add to it being in a hurricane at the same time
__________________
2018 Montana HC 331RL “Churches Castle”
2006 Ram 2500 Laramie 5.9 Cummins crew cab 4X4
20K Andersen Ultimate Hitch
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06-12-2018, 06:29 PM
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#54
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Friendship
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBetterley
6th night into our first travel trailer experience and I have to say I am pleased with how well the trailer (Cougar 26RBS) is performing. Everything (seems to be) working as designed except a gray tank valve (at delivery we noted absence of valve pull handle, dealer installed a new one, which apparently came adrift in our travels. Not a big deal but it also turns out the associated valve must be jammed open, as the tank contents are in the outlet pipe despite the appearance of it being closed based on valve rod position.).
Kudos to our dealer, Lee Family Trailers in Windham Maine for delivery a clean, properly prepped trailer. They’ll fix the valve upon our return.
Fingers crossed things keep working. We really like the trailer.
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So as it turns out our valve wasn’t defective, it was left open (thanks to the missing handle and extension).
So today I got the new handle from Lee, pushed in and closed the valve, dribbled out the gray water left in the drain pipe, hooked up the hose, and we are back in business.
Really enjoying this comfy camping thing.
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05-29-2019, 04:35 AM
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#55
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NORTH PLATTE
Posts: 6
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My experience with my 26rbs has not been a good one.
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01-06-2023, 01:39 PM
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#56
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Powhatan
Posts: 1
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Keystone warranty
Don’t believe the BS about how good the warranty is. No matter what breaks the factory has to OK the fix. If they don’t think it’s a manufacturers defect they won’t cover it. If you have an awning problem, forget about it. We love our setup, we don’t love keystone.
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01-06-2023, 02:43 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickoryTom
Don’t believe the BS about how good the warranty is. No matter what breaks the factory has to OK the fix. If they don’t think it’s a manufacturers defect they won’t cover it. If you have an awning problem, forget about it. We love our setup, we don’t love keystone.
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Making quite a splash on your first post Hickory! Welcome and hope we see a bit more perspective in the future. (this thread is 4-5 years old and was very much dormant)
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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01-06-2023, 03:15 PM
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#58
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickoryTom
Don’t believe the BS about how good the warranty is. No matter what breaks the factory has to OK the fix. If they don’t think it’s a manufacturers defect they won’t cover it. If you have an awning problem, forget about it. We love our setup, we don’t love keystone.
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First off welcome to the forum
Keystone isn’t the only one that has that policy. Look at my signature, I have a few minutes of experience with this. The way the warranty issue is submitted and pics can determine the factory response. A good dealer with decent warranty claims writers can get just about anything under warranty covered…BTDT.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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01-06-2023, 04:17 PM
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#59
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickoryTom
Don’t believe the BS about how good the warranty is. No matter what breaks the factory has to OK the fix. If they don’t think it’s a manufacturers defect they won’t cover it. If you have an awning problem, forget about it. We love our setup, we don’t love keystone.
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Welcome to the forum as well. Your a little off base on your reply to a 3 1/2 year old thread.
The warranty is only as good as the "manufacturers" warranty; that depends on who made it. The RV has many, many "things" on/in it warranted by the individual manufacturers. You seem to imply that if Keystone doesn't think it's a "manufacturers" defect they will deny the claim....on anything/everything - that is not the case. For the first 12 mos. they will be your "go between" if you choose to use them or you can work with the manufacturer of the specific product; from the frame, wheels/tires to the roof all have specific warranties issued by those companies and Keystone has nothing to do with them unless you are using them to interface with those companies.
If an owner has an issue and wants warranty to cover it your dealer will write the issue up and submit it to Keystone who then submits it to the OE manufacturer. At times Keystone and/or the dealer will take care of it on the spot, other times they will defer to the manufacturer. In the event there is some manufacturing defect made by Keystone that somehow damages or impairs a particular device to operate properly then Keystone will be responsible. Through all of this, when requesting warranty repair through a dealer, the DEALER is the key. Their analysis and ability to pinpoint the issue THEN write it up CLEARLY so that Keystone and the manufacturer understands what happened is extremely critical. Some dealers are very good at it, some try and some don't care. Just some backdrop to clear up some possible confusion.
As far as awning problems....my problem resulted in a new awning.....
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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01-06-2023, 04:42 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 138
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I have the large holes where the water pipes come through the floor. What is recommended to fill them? Expanding foam? Would like to try and keep mice from using those holes for travel lanes.
__________________
Dave
becker & dog
2021 Cougar 22RBS
2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5l Powerboost
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