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Old 05-26-2016, 08:28 PM   #61
Festus2
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Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:38 PM   #62
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When I first bought my 2500 DURAMAX I thought it would be able to tow anything. I never imagined the trailer I bought would put my truck over any weight restrictions. So this is not about me not caring, it's about me being ignorant and uneducated with towing restrictions.

When I found out I am a little bit over on certain weights I started asking questions. I'm crunched for time with this 6000 mile trip but I am currently looking to trade the truck in or possibly sell the trailer.

I appreciate all the feedback and spirited debate. I will definitely keep you all updated on what I end up doing and how the trip goes.

In the mean time I bought new wheels/tires that are rated for what I am towing so at least I shouldn't have a blow out. Axles might fall off though...
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by aksilvy1 View Post
When I first bought my 2500 DURAMAX I thought it would be able to tow anything. I never imagined the trailer I bought would put my truck over any weight restrictions. So this is not about me not caring, it's about me being ignorant and uneducated with towing restrictions.

When I found out I am a little bit over on certain weights I started asking questions. I'm crunched for time with this 6000 mile trip but I am currently looking to trade the truck in or possibly sell the trailer.

I appreciate all the feedback and spirited debate. I will definitely keep you all updated on what I end up doing and how the trip goes.

In the mean time I bought new wheels/tires that are rated for what I am towing so at least I shouldn't have a blow out. Axles might fall off though...
This HAS been a spirited debate. You asked the right questions for the right reasons. I think you may be just fine, BUT, a 6000 mile trip across the horrible roads you are going to encounter just makes you want to be sure you have everything up to snuff - I'm very worried about your weights...but then I worry about most things. I wish you the very best of luck. The safety of you and your family should be paramount.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Festus2 View Post
Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.

Safety is paramount to everyone. Those that refuse to abide by established laws or guidelines should be called out; a forum that condones those practices, those that espouse those practices, or just doesn't want to take a position on those practices, when they are obviously wrong....or illegal, is doing a disservice to its members.

I won't have anything else to say about this matter. It is obvious to me that there are far more members here that pull overloaded, knowingly, and think it's great. I just hope that they get to pull half bodies from wreckage or try to console some poor woman with a coke bottle stuck in her eye socket, screaming, while trying to tell her "Its Ok, leave it alone, the ambulance is coming" (she lost her eye and the guy I was trying to "hold" died).

Clueless, self absorbed, unthinking humans infuriate me. And no, I'm not PC nor ever will be. If I need to be banned from this site, which I dearly love, then do so. I will not stop trying to espouse folks to do the right thing. I'm done.... more or less.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:15 PM   #65
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The forum does not condone unsafe practices or those who promote it. What we try to do is encourage our members to be responsible and to encourage them to engage in safe driving practices and to become familiar with guidelines, rules and restrictions that apply to towing an RV.

The forum supports those who "espouse folks to do the right thing". You are not alone in trying to achieve this goal. Having said that, it is important to keep in mind that it be done in an acceptable, courteous, and respectful way - even to those who you feel are "clueless, self-absorbed and unthinking".

We look forward to your continued and positive contributions to the forum.
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Old 05-27-2016, 03:12 AM   #66
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This thread reminds me of one of the great axioms of mankind; "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool".

As part of the management team for a global Fortune 500 company I have specific safety compliance duties and have investigated hundreds of accidents as well as been trained in many safety disciplines. The cardinal rules in all of those is, what does the manufacturer rate the equipment at (published rating) and what do they prescribe is the correct way to operate it (published operations manual).

When you move outside either of those two governing parameters the cause of the accident shifts to the unsafe behavior of the operator. That's all I'm going to say about that.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:06 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Festus2 View Post
Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.
What is wrong with a topic being debated and argumentative? I agree with not attacking someone on a personal level but to debate and argue a point is one of the most productive forms of human communication. I don't see anything wrong with members giving examples of why they feel their position is valid, especially when it very well may save someone's life. If you want to shut a thread down then I guess that's your choice, however I feel it would be a disservice and may prevent others from defending their position in the future. Again, yes it needs to not reach a level of personal attacks but heated can be productive. I have as some others pulled the mangled from these types of wrecks and covered the bodies of their family members, so yes if I can get through to one person the importantance of being safe then I will engage an individual when the advice they give others contradicts that. Best of luck to the OP, you obviously do care about your choices and are seeking advice on how to be safe. Im sure we all hope for your safe travel. Good day.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:42 AM   #68
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I will continue the debate, using facts, no name calling, even though I am already the village idiot.

Now I understand all your views, and i believe you understand mine, and I do not condone "overloaded" pulling.

With that said, If you spec a 3500 and do the math all the numbers line up as far as axles to payload to GCWR to max tow. The only difference is in one case the government says if you go over 10,000 you are operating "commercial" and decided that the magical # for commercial is 10,000 lbs, no matter what the engineer has designed the vehicle to operate with a safety factor built in. The other case a 3500 you are considered commercial, even though in most states you do not need a CDL for recreation and can operate up to what the engineer has designed as safe. Again I ask whether anyone has first hand knowledge and proof of an accident that occurred within the gray area's of a 3/4 ton truck, and was prosecuted with a conviction?

With that said I owned my truck before purchasing our RV. Purchased the RV fully knowing weights, and bought one that is light on the PIN, and fit the wants and needs of our buying process, and is operating right near the arbitrary 10000 GVWR. I even went as far to consider how heavy a hitch is and run an Andersen ultimate AL to keep that 100-150 lbs of payload. Also pack as much as i can behind the rear axles. Now I do not fear if I'm a few lbs over my GVWR, but knowing weights pre-purchase kept the rig as close to or below the 10000 lbs as possible. I know the truck was designed to be operated safely at the rear axle to 6000 well over 10000 lbs. I purchased aftermarket wheels and tires for looks, but again went with 3500 lb wheels and tires that are good for 3750 each, again well over the 6000 RAWR of the truck. I consider every ones safety including mine, tow below the speed limit, and within the law. I also ride motorcycle and know how important it is to be a defensive driver, as most problems will arrive from other cagers on the road, not "driving"

2014 Coil Sprung Ram 2500 CC CTD
2012 Cougar 327RES "Advertised" Hitch 1545



This load is way more dangerous than the RV believe it or not.




And according to legal #'s this truck is way more capable than the one above.



And big mamma will make a person realize how stupid "law abiding" citizens really are.



So in conclusion I'm not running around clueless, self-absorbed and unthinking. Quite the contrary I have obviously thought my situation fully and made educated purchases to stay within the law, but do not fear IF i was a few lbs over 10000 lbs and had to make a lawyer fight my case.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:27 AM   #69
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Couple quick comments.

Not sure about this argument about 3/4 ton and 10,000 GVWR is just a tax thing since you can order a brand new Ford F350 SRW with a GVWR at 10,000 to 11,500 with just a click on the order sheet. Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?

There are hundreds of lawyers that are advertizing for cases to take on over weight RVs like this one. http://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html .

When or if you sit as a jury on civil case like I did you will be required to fill out form with a bunch of questions assigning fault. One of the questions on the form was if the vehicle was operated within "Manufactures Specs".

I'm a GVWR person for my safety and since I fund a lot of my retirement I don't want someone else to retire on my retirement and I would have to try live off of Social Security.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Couple quick comments.

Not sure about this argument about 3/4 ton and 10,000 GVWR is just a tax thing since you can order a brand new Ford F350 SRW with a GVWR at 10,000 to 11,500 with just a click on the order sheet. Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?

There are hundreds of lawyers that are advertizing for cases to take on over weight RVs like this one. http://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html .

When or if you sit as a jury on civil case like I did you will be required to fill out form with a bunch of questions assigning fault. One of the questions on the form was if the vehicle was operated within "Manufactures Specs".

I'm a GVWR person for my safety and since I fund a lot of my retirement I don't want someone else to retire on my retirement and I would have to try live off of Social Security.
I see ads for "legal services" such as that law firm in many areas of the USA. With the concepts of "Free initial consultation", "We don't get paid unless you get paid", "File a suit for a million, settle for $250 thousand" and "Nobody will fight for you like J Sokolove and Associates"... It's only a matter of time before we all "know somebody who has been touched by the "legal professionals"....

For me and many others, it pretty much boils down to this: "If we don't police ourselves and promote safety within the RV community, the government and the legal system will do it for us."
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:08 AM   #71
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I want to apologize for any remarks I have made in this thread that were taken personally. I meant to offend no one and I do take the safety of myself and others seriously.

Some thoughts to ponder that I used to share with my management team while encouraging them to think "safety" at all times;

When an accident begins to unfold it WILL continue until the final results are achieved, whatever they may be. The ONLY time to prevent the accident is BEFORE it happens; once the ball starts rolling there is no pause button; you can't stop it. It may be over in an instant and it may take an eternity. In the end it is going to be what it's going to be.

In every BAD accident I've been in (fatalities/life or death situation) I had no clue of the outcome until I woke up. Thankfully I woke up. No stop button; no re-do; no timeout. What if you didn't wake up? What if you DID wake up but someone you loved didn't?? You have to dot the I's and cross the T's to eliminate everything humanly possible beforehand. Even then you have to dodge bullets of one kind or another that life throws at you; I don't want to be the one sitting back loading more bullets into the chamber......
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:24 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Couple quick comments.

Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?
Better question, why does the government not allow manufactures to rate trucks to there real capability's? If that was the case we wouldn't have 1 ton SRW.
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:34 AM   #73
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Better question, why does the government not allow manufactures to rate trucks to there real capability's? If that was the case we wouldn't have 1 ton SRW.
There is some sort of difference between F250 and F350. A guy at the camp site had 2016 F250 with camper special with over load springs. When he sets a Cougar with a 2600lbs pin the front end of the over load spring is firmly contact with the leafs and the overloads are in play. When I set my 3180 pin Montana on 2015 F350 I'm about 3/8 of inch from making contact to the over load springs. He need air bags to get level and mine was level without them.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:24 AM   #74
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For common sense debate sakes, and to keep this thread going, could we get a law maker to "straighten" things out hypothetically?

A 250 2500 should be SRW Rated to its capacity
A 350 3500 should be DRW Rated to its capacity

All DRW should be considered commercial if it has DW you need a CDL
Most SRW are under the Current 26001 GCWR CDL
Most DRW are over the Current 26001 GCWR CDL

And for safety's sake, scale all trucks towing any trailer over 5000 lb's GVWR regardless 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton TV, to the manufacture engineered rated GVWR GCWR and park/ticket them if overweight PERIOD.

GO!
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:28 AM   #75
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After on last post I had to think awhile about the question of a 3/4 over loaded pulling a RV and civil suits involved. I cannot think of any here that happened. But, in brief, I did have a overloaded utility trailer pulled by a mid size SUV. Trailers tires blew on drivers side. He crashed lost part of load which caused 2 more crashes. Minor injuries. I cited for reckless driving(crime). I did go the a tort hearing he was sued. Unknown outcome of that suit.
Another overloaded utility trailer pulled by a CJ jeep. Flipped and went across oncoming lanes. He was charged reckless driving and assault. I never knew if a civil case happened.
Last was a 70s 1/2 ton with same type year TT around 20 ft. Truck also loaded with about 1/3 bed with firewood. Steep down grades on that highway. Driver crossed over center of road on a 35mph curve as a motorcycle was oncoming. Motorcyle rider was run over by all driver side tires of truck and trailer. I pointed out to lead investigator truck was overloaded due to trailer and or wood. Anyone could see that by the rear of the truck lower down with the weight. Weeks later investigator told me driver was having problems controlling the vehicles and was overweight. He was charging driver with the death and reckless driving. Unknown of any civil trial as I retired 3 years later and never was involved in the case further.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:32 AM   #76
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Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?
Same reason they make 1/2 tons, same reason they make tent trailers, 15' trailers up to 45' trailers, Class A, B, C and Super C motorhomes.

We as consumers demand choices, and the manufacturers are doing their best to appeal to everyone. What if the only truck you could buy was a 1/2 ton? What if the only choice was a 1 ton DRW? Thank goodness we still have the ability to choose, and along with that comes the responsibility to choose the correct combination. Do many choose the wrong combination? yeah, I see it every day. Some do out of lack of information, and some do in total disregard of everybody else sharing the road.

I try to educate anybody that asks, and once they have the information it's up to them to process it in whatever manner they see fit. as far as the "what if.." argument that some seem to say isn't valid, I can only ask if they have a special talent that they can tell the future. Every time you get into a vehicle and go down the road, your rolling the dice. I prefer not to roll craps if I can help it. ANY thing I can do to minimize the possibility of loss I will do and tell anybody that asks the same thing.
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