Frustrated

[Jeremy888]

New owner here, Frustrated that no decent owners manual comes with Keystone products . At least for The 2016 Montana 3950BR .
The truth is that Keystone will not give out a Service Manual or even a wiring diagram . I asked Keystone for a wiring
diagram and was told none were available because they change model details so much. I was told to go a dealer! What a crock of BS . Every RV has a wiring diagram. Keystone won't give out real Manuals and repair information because they have a sweetheart agreement with their dealers. This means a guy like is me who has been repairing his own RV for 25 years has zero help after spending 58,000$ on a 2016 Montana . Help !! Any one have a source for information?

Jeremy888

[ctbruce]

I feel your frustration, but unfortunately, what you were told us the truth for all of us, and for all the manufacturers. Even if there were diagrams, there is little chance they would be followed from unit to unit. Remembe r, ax much ax we'd all like this to be like the car industry, it isn't.

If you ask on here, there are a ton of great people who can and will help. That is why this forum exists.

Sorry, I wish I had better news for you. At least you are getting the straight poop.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[dhn]

Welcome to the forum, Jeremy888. You have found out like others have found that there is no wiring, plumbing or other schematics to our trailers. This is not a Keystone issue, but an industry issue. Most RV manufactures even the high end moterhomes do not have those schematics. You have come to the right place to get issues fixed and questions answered. More than likely someone on here has had the same issue as you. Yes, it is frustrating to pay that much for a fiver and the maker has no clue to how the wiring and plumbing are ran. Sorry that not the answer you were looking for.

[Tinner12002]

I had asked the same thing on my Raptor and pretty much got the same answer. None available.

[Jeremy888]

Dear dhn and cbruce , Not so on my last 2 5th wheels , Alpenlites , They came with great manuals with complete diagrams and trouble shooting guides as well . So are you saying that Keystone does not know or have this info? No way I believe that ! How do the dealers repair Keystone products ? ,For example I asked the previous owner where the inverter ( I have zero info on it) is located . He said , " I don't know ,I bought the best warranty possible , where they come out to your RV for 100$" ( warranty non transferable of course!) So can you or anyone out there tell me where it is. Thanks for at least trying to get me in the loop. I foresee a rough ride with this RV and a very expensive lesson if it breaks which All of them do .

[Dave W]

Join the millions of RV owners who are on their own when it come to a detailed owner's manual. They do not exist. If a manufacturer did a comprehensive OM, it would take a full shelf. If you bought the Montana new or used, it will have a build sheet included or available if you can convince the stealership it belongs to you. If you bought used and private party - good luck.

The last RV that I had anything like a wiring schematic was a Newmar Kountry Aire - - and I have to say that it was about as useful as a roll of TP. The last before the current 5er was a Titanium - a so called super premium unit and that was a completely on your own, Made in Canada bilingual endeavor. As far as an owner's manual - every major component but the 'box' on that Montana is a 3rd party item and with few exceptions, available on the 'net if the dealer or previous owner neglected to pass on. Our current 5ers packet started at about a half indh, it's now about 3+ with more to be added as soon as I get a bigger binder.

[chuckster57]

We repair them by finding the problem, identifying the defect, submitting approval for repair and once approved, do the repair.

In all my years, Jayco and Tiffen are the only 2 makers that have sent any kind of schematic. I have yet to see any owners manual that was “model” specific. I haven’t had the pleasure of working on an Alpenlite so I’ll take your word for it.

There are simply too many different “models” to make a manual and schematics diagrams for each one. There very well may be a set at the factory, but I can assure you that even the dealers don’t get access to them other than the ones I have mentioned.

Yes as a tech, diagnosis can be frustrating and time consuming but there are “ways” of doing it and it is a learned skill.

[guote] Sweetheart deal[/quote]
This statement is blatantly FALSE!! Manufacturers don’t pick dealers, dealers are free to sell what ever brand they want, only restriction is geographic area. NO dealer gets more $ than another for warranty work. Please check your facts before making these types of statements

[Ken / Claudia]

Been buying Rvs since around 40 years, It has not changed, they give you manuals for each item they put in them. But, after 25 years you likely got the fixin part down. You just need to explore your new rv, pretty much built like the rest.

[Jeremy888]

Ok , Thanks . I am starting a file

[SteveC7010]

My '99 Sunline came through in pretty much the same way that Keystone sends out their units. You have to understand that Sunline was one of the best built TT's in it's price class and the factory was ultra responsive to the customers, even those who purchased used units. They sent a large binder with all the manuals for the individual appliances and components plus the usual generic owners manual which did include good winterizing instructions as well as other relevant maintenance information.

But there was one difference. They included a drawing of your specific model which showed the location of items like the master fuses pretty well. I still had to do some digging and call the factory to actually find the fuses (they were in a small wooden box mounted on the floor of the compartment under the couch), but the call was fast and competent. I explained the problem and they answered the question immediately. I never got put on hold. But still no construction drawings or wiring or plumbing drawings were sent along.

Here's the core of it all... My '99 Sunline, my old '76 Prowler, and my '11 Cougar are all assembled, wired, and plumbed in exactly the same manner. The industry is what it is. Make the best of it each and every day.

[Jeremy888]

Although my 2 Alpenlites had excellent wiring diagrams in the comprehensive owners manual i am at peace with the Montana situation . Thanks to everyone who put in their 2 cents ! SO I NEED HELP !

Does anyone know where I can get a durable cover for the ,Montana 3950BR ? It's 40'-5" long and 1 3'-5" high .

[chuckster57]

Most of us don’t use RV covers. A search of the forum will give you lots of reasons NOT to use one.

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by Jeremy888

Does anyone know where I can get a durable cover for the ,Montana 3950BR ? It's 40'-5" long and 1 3'-5" high .

We've had this conversation several times this week already. The answer is still the same. Several of us have written extensive pieces on the topic. You are invited to read them.

[Tinner12002]

My thinking on the service manual might be that if we knew how and with what these things were built with we probably wouldn't...yes, we would buy them!! Lol!
As for the cover, I thought about getting one also until I read the many posts of the disadvantages of using one. I decided to not get one and just use a little more wax on, wax off.

[Dave W]

Since you have listened to us about IBs, now we can regale you on covers. My experience with any cover is lousy. On this and the last 5er, I've had 3 ADCOs which seem to be the standard of the industry. The first one lasted two seasons before shredding. The second and a step up was used one season, had a couple minor holes but went with the 5er at trade time. The last one - one season before shredding and rodent damage sent that onr to the dump. That last one was their 'cream of the crop'. Total dollars - over $1000. A good top to bottom clean up and a wax job is what the 5er gets now. Damages are caused by wind, mostly, but all that claptrap now on an RV's roof along with sharp edges along the bottom skirts and maybe even something as inconsiderable as the HW heater latch (yep,)

There are several brands - ADCO, the top selling cover has 2-3 levels but their fit leaves a lot to be desired.

CAMCO - low end

Covercraft - custom made and the last iime I asked for a quote, was almost 2x the cost of an ADCO with a multi week lead time.

All are made from some version of that home wrap, Tyvek and once a tear stars, it just gets bigger. A small patch kit comes with the ADCOs but will not stay stuck on the base material. Neither will any tape I tried.

Did I say that they are H E A V Y to drag 12-13 feet up a wobbly ladder and unroll evenly to drape down the sides. And that there really aren't enough straps so you still need to tie it even further with ropes.

There are several (many!!) threads extolling folks dislikes of covers here and other forums, Don't believe the YouTube clip that shows an 80s age individual installing a cover in 10 minutes - it's bull droppings. Totally flat roof - maybe

You need to decide for yourself if a cover is desirable - many of us have tried and decided that they aren't.