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Old 12-09-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
TheGriz
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Problem with Gas Log

Good morning all,

I have a problem with the Gas Log that is installed in the firebox of my fireplace in my home since 2013. It is an Empire Ponderosa 30" LP log. It's been operated flaw-free since installed in 2013

The problem is that when turning on log (using the remote), the pilot lights without issue, then after several seconds, the pilots just shuts down. When operating properly, after the pilot lights the LP fills the base of the log "fixture" and viola all flames light. FYI...it's an unvented log, and the 100 gallon LP tank is showing 50% full on the gauge.

See the vid below that I loaded on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/Mhc65FJXtIo

Up until yesterday, it has been working fine. First thing I did yesterday was replace the batteries in the log control unit and the remote...didn't correct problem. Any clue why its doing this? Suggested fixes?

Appreciate all insight!
Mike
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:50 AM   #2
Hodgy
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.

Does it have a thermocouple with the pilot light ?

That may have failed.

.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
.

Does it have a thermocouple with the pilot light ?

That may have failed.

.
I am a pretty handy guy, but this is one area I am not knowledgeable. What would the thermocouple look like and where would it be located?
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:57 AM   #4
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The thermocouple is my guess too. With the remote control ignition, there is a timed bypass for the thermocouple so that gas can flow (momentarily) until the thermocouple gets hot and keeps the gas flow operating. For safety, if the thermocouple doesn't function, after the "timed bypass period" the gas flow shuts down to prevent unburned propane from flowing through the log burner and into the room.

The thermocouple may just need to be cleaned (carbon buildup acts as insulation) or it may need to be replaced.

ADDED: The thermocouple looks like a "brass tube" about 1/8" thick and about 2" long. It sits in the pilot flame and has a "thin tube" that goes from that flame tip back to the gas solenoid.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:04 AM   #5
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Here's a picture of a thermocouple. There are other technologies to monitor pilot flame status, but the "old reliable thermocouple" method is typically the most common.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:09 AM   #6
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Thermocouples are cheap, Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

They come in various lengths, get a close as possible to the OEM as you don't want any kinks in the tube.

Easy to replace.


.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #7
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Okay...this is what I'm seeing so far without taking all logs off and digging further. The pic shows where the pilot lights. Am I looking at the thermocouple?
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:25 AM   #8
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Looks like it is in the centre of the white thing on the right side of the photo.

And that does not look like a normal thermocouple it may be product specific.

.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
.

Looks like it is in the centre of the white thing on the right side of the photo.

And that does not look like a normal thermocouple it may be product specific.

.
The "white thing" on the right side is where the spark arcs that lights the pilot. The spark arcs from that small 1/16"x 1" rod sticking up from the "white thing" (insulator?) and the 3/8" tube to it's left where the gas flows out.

So knowing that, does it make sense that the "white thing" is the thermocouple???

BTW...thank you for all the quick responses!!!

Mike
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:22 AM   #10
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Go to this site: http://fastfireplaces.com/literature/REMOTE.pdf and look at the diagram on page 34. It appears that the thermocouple is "inside" the horizontal pilot assembly. There are two types of thermocouples for this system, one is for natural gas and is located "in the flame" behind the piezo ignitor, the other is for LP gas and is located as shown in that diagram on page 34.

I'd suspect that your home is on LP gas??? From the photo you posted, it looks like the log set is an LP set.

One other possibility, depending on how your log set is installed, there are two ways to power the remote receiver (located on the log set), one is batteries the other is a power supply to convert 110 VAC to DC. In the manual located at the link, you'll also find how to change those receiver batteries, if your log set has them. Don't confuse the transmitter batteries (in the remote control handset) with the receiver batteries (in the log set controls)..... You may or may not have batteries there, but if you do, I'd change them and see what happens before going further.

ADDED: The "white cylinder with the post on it" is the peizo igniter, not the thermocouple. It's the "sparker that ignites the propane" when the pilot light is called to turn on.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:49 AM   #11
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Thanks John and Hodgy. With your help, I'm finally getting somewhere! Yes as mentioned in original post, it is LP, has batteries in log controller, and the batteries were JUST changed in both the log and remote, thinking that was the simple fix (no such luck).

Looking at the diagram in the manual you John provided, and looking at this video https://youtu.be/u74_Y9MHWk8 the thermocouple is apparently inside the pilot tube.

After watching the above video, I got out the compressor and blew out that pilot tube. No luck

So, I'm thinking that the next move is to turn off the gas valve behind log set, get out the open end wrench, loosen the nut on the left side of the pilot tube and remove it. I'm thinking the thermocouple will stay in place and I can attempt to clean it with a piece of 400 grit sand paper. Reassemble and try again.

Am I on the right track??? Looking for a vote of confidence, or another approach...
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:27 AM   #12
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Your plan is about what I'd do. It may be a bad thermocouple and you may find that it's not replaceable. That would mean buying the entire pilot assembly, not a cheap part, but still, it's cheaper than buying a new log set....

Hopefully it's a simple fix and you'll get it working without a lot of expense......
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:44 AM   #13
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Here is the latest status on the problem with my gas log. The thermocouple is integral to the Pilot Assembly. So I can't buy the el cheapo Thermocouple at Home Depot. I needed to buy the whole Pilot Assembly. My local gas log dealer had it in stock...$50 plus $3 tax!

I installed the new pilot assembly...and as luck would have it, same problem ! The pilot would light and again go out after about ten seconds. So I called up Empire, manufacturer of the log, and talk to Bruce in Tech Support. He is excellent and instructs me to remove the "Interrupter Block" from the valve assembly; connect the wire from the thermocouple directly to the valve assembly; and see if I can light the log 'manually'. Viola...that worked!!! Understand this gas log is a "variable flame" and is normally controlled with a Remote Control (just like the television).

Next I replace the new pilot assembly with the old pilot assembly. And the old one worked with the thermocouple wire connected directly to the valve block and lighting MANUALLY. So I didn't need to buy the $53 friggin' pilot assembly .

Bruce now tells me i have eliminated the pilot assembly as the problem and isolated the problem to the Interrupter Block or possibly the switch on the valve block. I did some diagnostics on the switch for continuity, and it is definitely NOT the switch (a simple two-position on/off switch). Bruce says it has to be the Interrupter Block.

Back on the phone with my local dealer, they don't stock the Interrupter Block. They order and its $11. I asked if they'd accept back the Pilot Assembly I bought from them and YES they will! About a week to get the Interrupter Block in. We shall see what happens next.

This happens at the worst time. I use the gas log for supplemental heat, particularly first thing in morning to boost the temp in house after the house thermostat is turned down the evening before. Of course we will be seeing outside temps in the teens for the rest of this week.

I hope to have this done for when Santa comes down the chimney .

Mike
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGriz View Post
Here is the latest status on the problem with my gas log. The thermocouple is integral to the Pilot Assembly. So I can't buy the el cheapo Thermocouple at Home Depot. I needed to buy the whole Pilot Assembly. My local gas log dealer had it in stock...$50 plus $3 tax!

I installed the new pilot assembly...and as luck would have it, same problem ! The pilot would light and again go out after about ten seconds. So I call up Empire, manufacturer of the log, and talk to Bruce in Tech Support. He is excellent and instructs me to remover the "Interrupter Block" from the valve assembly; connect the wire from the thermocouple directly to the valve assembly; and see if I can light the log 'manually'. Viola...that worked!!! Understand this gas log is a "variable flame" and is normally controlled with a Remote Control (just like the television).

Next I replace the new pilot assembly with the old pilot assembly. And the old one worked with the thermocouple wire connected directly to the valve block and lighting MANUALLY. So I didn't need to buy the $53 friggin' pilot assembly .

Bruce now tells me i have eliminated the pilot assembly as the problem and isolated the problem to the Interrupter Block or possibly the switch on the valve block. I did some diagnostics on the switch for continuity, and it is definitely NOT the switch (a simple two-position on/off switch). Bruce says it has to be the Interrupter Block.

Back on the phone with my local dealer, they don't stock the Interrupter Block. They order and its $11. I asked if they'd accept back the Pilot Assembly I bought from them and YES they will! About a week to get the Interrupter Block in. We shall see what happens next.

This happens at the worst time. I use the gas log for supplemental heat, particularly first thing in morning to boost the temp in house after the house thermostat is turned down the evening before. Of course we will be seeing outside temps in the teens for the rest of this week.

I hope to have this done for when Santa comes down the chimney .

Mike


That's a nice thought; making sure 'ol Santa is toasted....errrrr, "toasty"!!
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:20 AM   #15
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Glad you got it figured.

You now have a new skill set for the honey do list !

.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:29 AM   #16
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Glad to hear you are moving towards a fix.

Always nice to call and get tech support from someone that is actually knowledgeable and not sitting at a desk halfway around the world.

Good luck staying warm!!
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