The RV space is on fire - Millennials Expected...

canesfan · 07-29-2017, 05:51 AM

Every now and then something comes up about RV sales, here's one from a main stream source - from CNBC today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/28/the-...ord-highs.html

We're already seeing more and more crowded campgrounds and having to make reservations earlier and earlier. I don't mind people for the most part (at least well behaved people) but it has gotten so that I don't even care to go out in the Summer, pretty much back to sticking to Spring and Fall.

Javi · 07-29-2017, 05:58 AM

Yeah... we just got back from our favorite state park and it was packed... We've talked about just staying home from June to September and let the kids have the parks... too much noise, too many people...

PARAPTOR · 07-29-2017, 06:18 AM

Sounds good, only problem up this way our season is May to October

CaptnJohn · 07-29-2017, 07:52 AM

We have one great CG near that is usually not crowded during the week, forget weekends. We go there 1 - 2 times during summer. Our season starts in September and ends in May. This year September and October became more difficult.

Johnny's Journey · 07-29-2017, 08:25 AM

When the doors are closed and we're settled in I can't tell that I'm @ work camping. A get away is a get away, right ?

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2017, 08:35 AM

We live in a "very rural area" of northern Michigan. Just 15 years ago there were two houses on our road and it was gravel. We never saw anyone except an occasional ATV or snowmobile rider. Heck, even we were only here during a couple weeks of summer. The "RV BOOM" and increased financial security have definitely increased the population in this area (there is no industry, no jobs and no businesses to bring people here). When we tore down our cabin and built our current home in 2009, we could drive to town and only see 5 or 6 cars and NEVER saw a car on the 3 mile secondary road that runs by our house. Now, it's "constant traffic" on the highway and my DW commented yesterday that we can't drive that 3 miles without passing several cars. The state forest campground that's about half a mile from our house was always "close to empty" and was a nice place to park by the lake and fish in quiet. We had a mini family reunion early this spring and the campground was packed. Typically we spend a weekend there, getting the boat tuned up, checking out the trailer and making sure things are ready for summer. This year it was "non-stop generators, kids on little ATV's and partying till "almost dawn".... I suppose next year we'll do the "by the garage" weekend and just pull the boat down to the lake access site (or I'll build my own boat ramp behind the house)......

That article touched on a number of topics I see on the forum almost every day.

"But, Johnson warned, consumers in this industry are fairly brand-agnostic and any rise in price would turn off potential customers." We see people say they wish Keystone would include XXX on their trailers. Things like better tires, bigger air conditioners, improved mattresses, more outlets, more propane hookups, etc. Each of those comes with an increase in cost, and the industry reporters say customers are "turned off by price increases"... A catch 22 for THOR and Keystone.

"In fact, just two years ago, the KOA survey found younger campers valued having WiFi almost as much as access to toilet paper." In many of the current posts, it seems (at least to me) that construction and reliability has taken a "back seat" to number of USB ports, TV sets in multiple locations and how many features are available on the remote control.

Times, they are a-changin' ...

canesfan · 07-29-2017, 10:05 AM

"In many of the current posts, it seems (at least to me) that construction and reliability has taken a "back seat" to number of USB ports, TV sets in multiple locations and how many features are available on the remote control."

USB ports are handy. Mine came with 2 and it would be nice to have one in the garage which I use for a guest room, and maybe one outside.

I have 3 TVs, they never get turned on unless one of the "kids" is along and maybe wants to watch a movie now and then, and even that doesn't happen often unless maybe they bring a friend.

All my remotes are put away except for the fireplace, which I use as the main source of heat, and the soundbar, because you need the remote to use it pretty much.

I will NOT buy an RV that everything is remote controlled like this Incommand stuff I keep reading about.

But I'm different than most I guess.

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2017, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canesfan

"In many of the current posts, it seems (at least to me) that construction and reliability has taken a "back seat" to number of USB ports, TV sets in multiple locations and how many features are available on the remote control."

I will NOT buy an RV that everything is remote controlled like this Incommand stuff I keep reading about.

But I'm different than most I guess.

I'm agree !!! There are several "optional upgrades" on our Cougar that we've never used. USB ports, additional TV locations, extra switch locations (front cap lights, etc) and remote control functions for things with switches. We just walk to the control panel and use the switch. Honestly, it's probably faster than trying to find where I left the remote... LOL

As for the complexity and "lack of reliability" in many of these "upgrades", like you, I'm more inclined to prefer "just put a switch on the wall to control it and take the optional "fancy system" off the purchase price...... For me, even things like the electric stabilizer jacks (not the same as the level-up system) which are prone to burning out electric motors that cost $300 to replace..... Well, that kind of upgrade is something that, for me at least, just doesn't make for reliability or "smart buying"....

canesfan · 07-29-2017, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm agree !!! There are several "optional upgrades" on our Cougar that we've never used. USB ports, additional TV locations, extra switch locations (front cap lights, etc) and remote control functions for things with switches. We just walk to the control panel and use the switch. Honestly, it's probably faster than trying to find where I left the remote... LOL

As for the complexity and "lack of reliability" in many of these "upgrades", like you, I'm more inclined to prefer "just put a switch on the wall to control it and take the optional "fancy system" off the purchase price...... For me, even things like the electric stabilizer jacks (not the same as the level-up system) which are prone to burning out electric motors that cost $300 to replace..... Well, that kind of upgrade is something that, for me at least, just doesn't make for reliability or "smart buying"....

We think a lot alike on things.

Front cap lights. Turned them on the first night, took a picture, sent it to the kids, turned them off. Never turned them on again.

Switches on the wall are nice! Switches for the main ceiling lights on the control panel behind a door in the middle of the trailer are pretty stupid IMO.

And yeah, leave out all the extra gimmicky stuff and take it off the price. Make it an option for those who like that sort of stuff.

I would have liked and paid for a wired for backup camera option, but of course that came along the following year. That would have been practical.

I like my level up, and that it doesn't have a remote. Oh but wait, if it had a remote I could level it without even getting out of my truck...

And I like my generator, that I don't have to go outside in the morning in the cold and rain to start, and it has a BUTTON to start it, thank GOD!

Ok, I'm done for now...maybe.

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2017, 11:37 AM

Our first fifth wheel was a Springdale. It was, in 2011, a basic entry level trailer. We bought it to tow with our F150 (yes, I know). At 26', 7200 pound GVW and 920 pound pin weight we were still "overloaded" if we carried much in the way of cargo, but that's another story....

Anyway, the only "upgrade" on that Springdale was a 26" TV and a gas/electric water heater. Other than that, it was all "manual, switches on the lights, no wall switches and no remote control, even for the TV.

I bought a RVS "hardwired" rear view camera for it so I could monitor the boat behind the fifth wheel. I liked it so well that when the tree fell on the trailer, I took the camera system off, installed it on the Cougar (too cheap to buy a new one I guess) and it's still working great, even though it's now 7 years old and has been through some pretty "daunting winter use" as well as some rough road use (13 miles of "2-track" in 4WD to get the trailer/boat to our "special lake). We make that trip every spring, so it's now 7 trips in 7 years.

I regularly "walk the line" at the local RV dealerships. They've finally given up following me with a sales pitch as they know I'm only "kicking tires".... Many of the "gotta have 'em" upgrades I see on the new trailers, I shake my head and wonder how that's going to work in the field..... Things like "wifi controlled, smart phone monitor systems", remote control stabilizer jacks (?), sinks with no drain, lights with a switch on the fixture that's mounted 12' up, on the ceiling (with no wall switch) and fans with the only control on the fan, also mounted 12' "up there".... I'm still "remembering" that Cougar glass front touch control panel "nightmare" from 2011 and 2012.

Improvements are great, so long as they're improving the trailer, not improving the "bling".....

The above is just my opinion, I suppose it's different from those who prefer WIFI over toilet paper as was mentioned in the article.

Desert185 · 07-29-2017, 11:56 AM

JRTJH says:

"We live in a "very rural area" of northern Michigan. Just 15 years ago there were two houses on our road and it was gravel. We never saw anyone except an occasional ATV or snowmobile rider. Heck, even we were only here during a couple weeks of summer. The "RV BOOM" and increased financial security have definitely increased the population in this area (there is no industry, no jobs and no businesses to bring people here). When we tore down our cabin and built our current home in 2009, we could drive to town and only see 5 or 6 cars and NEVER saw a car on the 3 mile secondary road that runs by our house. Now, it's "constant traffic" on the highway and my DW commented yesterday that we can't drive that 3 miles without passing several cars. The state forest campground that's about half a mile from our house was always "close to empty" and was a nice place to park by the lake and fish in quiet. We had a mini family reunion early this spring and the campground was packed. Typically we spend a weekend there, getting the boat tuned up, checking out the trailer and making sure things are ready for summer. This year it was "non-stop generators, kids on little ATV's and partying till "almost dawn".... I suppose next year we'll do the "by the garage" weekend and just pull the boat down to the lake access site (or I'll build my own boat ramp behind the house)......"

Sounds like my hood, but without the lake. Still no stoplights in the valley since we moved here in 1998. There are times when I would like to not live on a dirt road, but then other factors return me to liking it.

We went from three tv's to one and a plug-in adapting two AC receptacles to two USB's and three AC receptacles. Adding USB's is easy.

We really don't wish for any of the new doo-dads that newer trailers have. Doo-dads create problems as evidenced with issues on the new trailers and tow vehicles in this forum. Some progress is good, but some of the stuff just creates problems that require a "tech" to solve. I'm a mech, not a tech.

**sourdough** · 07-29-2017, 12:07 PM

When I bought my first RV it was to "get away", not recreate my home environment. I'm still that way.

Granted, I travel differently now than I did 30 years ago; I stay in developed RV locations, not the woods (generally); we stay for extended periods (2-4 months), not 2-4 days so we like to have cable TV and wifi. Now, at this stage of life, I have some particular body parts that have been modified over the years that don't work like they did 30 years ago so I like electric stabilizers, tongue jacks etc. I want a self leveling system. Beyond that, I don't want foo-fahs; they tend to complicate things and break/malfunction. We like simple. We like things to be logical and controls located in a logical manner, which sometimes just isn't the case. We like switches, not touch panels or remotes. So, in summary, YES, just give us the basic stuff and we'll be happy. I believe in the old moniker; KISS.

**chuckster57** · 07-29-2017, 12:22 PM

Quote:

We really don't wish for any of the new doo-dads that newer trailers have. Doo-dads create problems as evidenced with issues on the new trailers and tow vehicles in this forum. Some progress is good, but some of the stuff just creates problems that require a "tech" to solve. I'm a mech, not a tech.

been an auto MECHANIC for the last 40+ yrs and the introduction of OBD II and C.A.N. have made my job a lot EASIER....Been an RV TECH for the last 5+ yrs and I cant seem to keep up with the new technology

Johnny's Journey · 07-29-2017, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

been an auto MECHANIC

I feel I know you better all ready.

But back to the main topic things must go.

John&Genny · 07-29-2017, 12:54 PM

I agree with CNBC's assessment of the RV industry. The wife and I belong to Thousand Trails which is a membership based campground organization, and have been RV'ing for about the last 10 years. We have watched the membership grow considerably and last year the TT site we frequent had it's first full sellout on the 4th of July weekend, not a space available at all. Those that didn't make a reservation ended up in overflow parking. So the RV'ing is growing, no doubt there. Only problem is that with the high demand in RV's, we are also seeing the effect of poorer quality control on the new units that are being built.

Had to laugh about some of us thinking that WiFi access is just as important as TP access

Both the wife and I are technogeeks so we value our internet. Only problem is most RV parks/campgrounds offer very minimal internet service, and usually only at the lodge. I understand that Thousand Trails may be installing a paid internet service throughout the parks, but not sure exactly when that is happening. So we use WiFi when it's available and other times max out our data plan on Verizon

**chuckster57** · 07-29-2017, 01:02 PM

The dealer location I currently work at has 5 Techs and between customer pay and warranty work, New customers are having to wait at least a week for us to finish the PDI and fix any issues that show up. Just did a $170,000.00 Motor home and found 33 items. 5 were what I considered "major" as in one whole side had no 110 power to GFI plugs, USB charging ports with no power, thermostats on wrong walls. Had to remove a wall and the residential fridge to swap the thermostats .....being delivered today 5 weeks after purchase. I figure I have over 60 hrs of warranty labor.

busterbrown · 07-29-2017, 04:30 PM

The upswing of the economy in the last 5 years has created demand with all "discretionary toys" (boats, rvs, atvs, etc.) A friend of mine told me recently there currently is a long waiting list for boat slips in a marina that I had my own boat at about 5 years ago. There were always slips available when I was a tenant but now a waiting list.

My take on current industry conditions is that the RV "boom" is temporary. A correction in the major housing, financial, and oil markets will cyclically expose another recession (historically, a gaurantee). Fuel prices will rise, a war will begin, China will stop buying US debt, and unemployment will rise. Whatever the catalyst for the recession will ultimately put pressure on consumer expendables. Last time I checked, RVs, boats, vacation homes, and discretionary toys where the first to go.

Just imagine the impact on inventories in the used market for all the above. Just an observation...

Johnny's Journey · 07-30-2017, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busterbrown

take on current industry conditions is that the RV "boom" is temporary.

**chuckster57** · 07-30-2017, 03:50 PM

Our boss said a couple of months ago that the industry is predicting a 6 year up swing and we are in year 2. He attends regular meetings with a bunch of dealers.

busterbrown · 07-30-2017, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Our boss said a couple of months ago that the industry is predicting a 6 year up swing and we are in year 2. He attends regular meetings with a bunch of dealers.

Just like analysts predicted the housing and financial crisis if 2007/2008? After the collapse a decade ago, predictability is like watching a glass ball. Global events, essentially, can change "up swings" in a hurry.

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