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Old 08-16-2017, 09:23 PM   #1
SERENITY now
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Range hood vent

We have a 2016 Avalanche 300RE fifth wheel.
The smoke detectors are always going off when cooking or toasting bread.
We use the power roof fan and stove hood fan and have left the RV door open.
Still the smoke detectors sound and you can smell the propane fumes. We noticed that the overhead fan above the stove does not vent outside. Other Avalanche models vent outside. Keystone refuses to believe this is a problem and refuse to pay for a vent to be installed. Keystone replies that we should crack a window open when cooking. This is totally absurd. This is a design flaw, and a health hazard as far as we are concerned. We are paying our dealer to install a vent outside but still feel Keystone in neglecting there responsibility. Does anyone have this same problem or can give us some advice.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:49 PM   #2
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You're not the only one with hypersensitive smoke and LP detectors in your rig. I've read complaints on forums where the family's dog has set off the alarm, just by proximity to the detector.

Which leads me to ask, have you thought about moving the smoke detector(s) to a different area of the coach? I've read it's worked for some people. There's no guarantee that adding a external range vent will eliminate the problem.

Obviously, using a non-vented range fan will only re-circulate the same air. Similarly, opening an entry door won't exchange air fast enough unless you have other windows open at the same time and have a breeze through the trailer.

We have a smaller travel trailer with two detectors on each side of our main living space. We mitigate having the alarms signal by removing the batteries prior to cooking anything significant. Odorous foods are usually cooked outside anyways. We've never had a problem with things like toast (unless it burns). For the most part, a MaxxAir high capacity vent fan solved most of our problems as it's located within two feet of the stove. Is this the type of "power roof fan" you have?

On a positive note, at least you know the alarms are working. No guessing, right!
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:13 AM   #3
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I noticed the same thing on the keystone we almost purchased. Un-vented range hood and they mounted the smoke detector within a yard of the range. Not a very smart design in either case, and the combo makes the situation worse.

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Old 08-17-2017, 04:26 AM   #4
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Buster, at the risk of showing off my "know it all" side, your statement "removing the batteries prior to cooking anything significant" bothered me enough to comment. We don't have enough members like you. You're a sharp person, generally comment in a polite manner, good information. In order to keep you around I wish that you would never, under any circumstances, remove your batteries from the smoke detectors. Bad, bad news. I'd sleep better knowing you handled things differently than the removal of the batteries. Remember Murphy's law number 188? That's the one that says the one and only time you forget to return the batteries to the detector is the one and only time the fire breaks out......fair enough?
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:41 AM   #5
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One of the first things I did when we brought our '14 home was to replace both the CO and fire detectors. Both were the lowest end junk and even worse, even with new batteries the test button wouldn't set them off. I've forgotten the brand name of the CO detector (probably First Alert) but the smoke detector is a dual sensor smoke AND fire alarm, First Alert SA320CN Dual-Sensor Smoke and Fire Alarm that will raise you off the couch when it sounds and on Amazon it's about 17 bucks - sorry but Canadians most likely pay at least 20% more

That range hood - if you are a DIYer with a few common tools, why not trash that non-vented hood and replace it with one that works. I know that's not what you want to hear, but there is little chance Keystone will step up the bucks for the mod until some 'tombstone technology' with several RVers deaths requires them to fix the design.
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:37 AM   #6
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I am NOT defending Keystone with these comments, but I'm sure that some will view it that way. With that said, Keystone designed the trailer with specific components, some that may not be the same on other models. Having a "non-vented range hood" (as dumb as it may be) is a design feature on the trailer in question. Every one of them that model year are the same.

Keystone, in all probability, will ignore the demands for modifying a "design change" for that one owner. It's sort of like me buying a Ford SuperDuty and demanding that Ford modify it by installing F150 tail lights because I don't like the way the F250 tail lights perform. It "ain't gonna happen" with Ford and I'd strongly suspect it "ain't gonna happen" with Keystone.

If you really want to resolve your problem, look at modifying your trailer sidewall by cutting a hole in it to vent the range odor/heat outside. While you're at it, modify the existing range hood to a Sam-E system. Many of us gave up on the ineffective OEM range hood fan (which is the INDUSTRY STANDARD, not just the Keystone standard) and spent the bucks to upgrade to a "working fan" for our trailers. Keystone wouldn't talk to us about paying for our mod either. My guess is you'll be wasting time, effort and sanity if you push Keystone on modifying your trailer's range hood or installing "extra cost fans" on a product that was built to specific standards, that meets those standards, and without a manufacturer's defect (in other words, something that's broken).
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:01 AM   #7
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The only way to defeat this "design feature" is for no one to buy a trailer designed like that. Of course, that isn't going to happen despite the recurring complaints from folks who buy trailers with that "design feature". That intentional "design feature", BTW, is truly stupid.

What might be worth mentioning for some who haven't noticed is that those trailers that actually have a vented fan might have an external door/flap that is prevented from opening by tabs. Rotating those tabs allows the external door to open when the fan is switched on. That feature hasn't been automated...yet. FWIW...
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:26 AM   #8
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The only way to defeat this "design feature" is for no one to buy a trailer designed like that. Of course, that isn't going to happen despite the recurring complaints from folks who buy trailers with that "design feature".
Without going to deeply into how the mind see's thing's. Who is the OP really upset with. Keystone know's what they built but did OP know this ? By the way. My unit exhausts out and even with the fan on and door open my alarm goes off. Why ? Answer, read the instruction sheet to any detector and it will state how far away it should be mounted from things like a stove. I guess Keystone needs to add more square footage to the trailer to really resolve the issue.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:21 AM   #9
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Without going to deeply into how the mind see's thing's. Who is the OP really upset with. Keystone know's what they built but did OP know this ? By the way. My unit exhausts out and even with the fan on and door open my alarm goes off. Why ? Answer, read the instruction sheet to any detector and it will state how far away it should be mounted from things like a stove. I guess Keystone needs to add more square footage to the trailer to really resolve the issue.
There's a lot more that goes into building an RV manufacturing business than "3 yahoos with a pole barn in Goshen, Indiana"... Sometimes I get the impression that people believe that manufacturers are able to "just do what they want" when it comes to designing a trailer. They have to follow vehicle loading, tire loading, balance, airflow, furniture styles, consumer color preferences, and a "bazillion" other inputs in order to design, build and market a trailer model. Then, you have to realize that they also must follow "industry standards"....

You need to also factor in RVIA requirements to the mix. They mandate how close to a heat source the smoke detector must be located, so even though the smoke alarm instructions say where they think it should be located, RVIA also plays into the installation in RV's. When there's a conflict, without RVIA certification you can't get financing on an RV and in many locations you can't get it registered or licensed, so...... Last I researched it (chuckster57 might have current requirements) RVIA mandated a smoke/fire detector be located on the ceiling within 10' of the stove. Those RVIA mandates may have changed, but they are "secret from consumers" unless you want to pay $400 for a set.

Yet another way the RV industry keeps consumers in the dark.....

ADDED: Just a parting thought: If you've ever wondered why there's an EXIT sticker (mandated to be red with white letters) directly over the only exit door in the trailer, look no further than RVIA code. That's only one of multiple "save the fools from themselves" type of rules every manufacturer must follow when building your "pride and joy".... <rant off>
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:58 AM   #10
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Exactly. It's a buyer beware world.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert185 View Post
The only way to defeat this "design feature" is for no one to buy a trailer designed like that. Of course, that isn't going to happen despite the recurring complaints from folks who buy trailers with that "design feature". That intentional "design feature", BTW, is truly stupid.

What might be worth mentioning for some who haven't noticed is that those trailers that actually have a vented fan might have an external door/flap that is prevented from opening by tabs. Rotating those tabs allows the external door to open when the fan is switched on. That feature hasn't been automated...yet. FWIW...
I think those are the same tabs that a year later are broken, and remind you they are broken by the constant "ticking" on windy nights. LOL
And the only way to open them is to stand on your tip toes on the doorsteps swinging from the door grab handle trying to force them open, and break them.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:16 AM   #12
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The dealer can install a external vent or you can do it yourself. To me, a recirculating vent is a safety flaw and should be addressed. After I modded mine there's no problemo.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:55 PM   #13
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My tiny little Hideout 177LHS has a vented outside range hood with little tabs that hold the flapper shut. It works great and the SD never goes off if we turn the fan on..life is good.

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Old 09-12-2017, 05:39 PM   #14
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My tiny little Hideout 177LHS has a vented outside range hood with little tabs that hold the flapper shut. It works great and the SD never goes off if we turn the fan on..life is good.

Yes, I think it is ridiculous. It is a no brainer to vent burning propane outside. I believe the Outback might have some structure right behind the vent. Doing a simple tap test, it sounds solid there.

On the bright side, the 2018 has one big advantage over the 2017. The 17 had the smoke alarm within 5 feet of the stove. The 2018 had it installed near the rear of the trailer by the king bed.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #15
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Yes, I think it is ridiculous. It is a no brainer to vent burning propane outside. I believe the Outback might have some structure right behind the vent. Doing a simple tap test, it sounds solid there.



On the bright side, the 2018 has one big advantage over the 2017. The 17 had the smoke alarm within 5 feet of the stove. The 2018 had it installed near the rear of the trailer by the king bed.

I have seen RV's in every price range with return venting, meaning vented back into the RV.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:38 PM   #16
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Yes, I think it is ridiculous. It is a no brainer to vent burning propane outside. I believe the Outback might have some structure right behind the vent. Doing a simple tap test, it sounds solid there.

On the bright side, the 2018 has one big advantage over the 2017. The 17 had the smoke alarm within 5 feet of the stove. The 2018 had it installed near the rear of the trailer by the king bed.
I have seen vent's that exhaust out at 90 degrees over to an area with no obstructions. Where there's a will, there is a way!
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:20 PM   #17
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And, this is how the left burner burns when the vent is on. The fan is just about blowing out the flame. It blows straight down the wall and under the pans.

Bad news for the 2018 Keystone Outbacks 250URS design team or lack thereof. . .
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