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Old 11-22-2018, 05:06 AM   #21
itat
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
This is why I posted my comments about "doublespeak".... If you're still living in the early 1980's, your definition of "domestic cars" is correct. Today, that line is significantly blurred and the definition has dramatically changed. Domestic cars no longer means "built by Ford, GM or Chrysler". It means, "assembled in the US and containing more than 75% US origin parts" BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia Motors, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Subaru, Tesla Motors, Toyota Motor Corporation, and Volkswagen are defined as "domestic manufacturers.

If you go back and read my post, I started it with, ""Methinks" there's a bit of "doublespeak" in the bolded part. By "doublespeak" I mean to say "what you consider a domestic car"...." IMHO, your definition of "domestic car" is no longer the accepted meaning.

Sort of like saying "Jets aren't airplanes, airplanes have propellers" That definition might have been correct in the 1940's (when jets were often confused with rocket ships), but not today.... Same with "domestic cars"....
While I don’t totally agree with you, I do understand that point of view. My DW says I live in the 80s because of the music I listen to!

Maybe I need to change to “Domestic company cars”?

BTW, your definition of domestic is American-centric to me. It seems that “domestic” for me, by your definition, would mean "assembled in Canada and containing more than 75% Canadian origin parts". GM, Fiat-Chrysler and Ford all manufacture vehicles here in Ontario but I don’t know whether any of the vehicles they manufacture would have 75% Canadian origin parts. Our economies are so intertwined that that might not be valid anymore at least for vehicles manufactured in Michigan and Ontario, especially the Detroit and Windsor area.

Also, using the term “doublespeak” to describe my post is a bit offensive. Double speak means “deliberately euphemistic, ambiguous, or obscure language”. There was no deliberate attempt on my part to be obscure or ambiguous. By your post you clearly know that I’m just out of date.
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:50 AM   #22
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Well I love my GM truck and the all the previous Gm trucks have been great for "me" too. Whether new or used they have all been good to me. I did own a 58 Ford truck and a 1960 ford truck and they were ok for a $300 truck. I have friends who swear by Dodge or Ford and for them if it works great. I have been a GM guy pretty much my whole life and the fact whether they are "assembled" in Canada, USA or Mexico (my last truck ) doesn't faze me. That was what Free Trade was supposed to be about
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:54 AM   #23
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Okay, itat, YOU brought up tires! How did you think this would end? Your point that origin of a product doesn't equate to its quality/value is lost. You have dared challenge the site gurus and have been put in your place.



By the way, I always get curious about the trailers others own and looked up your trailer and that appears to be one of the best floorplans I have ever seen on any trailer. I don't like the length for myself (my parking slip here on the property is the limiting factor) but think a travel trailer might work; hard to level a 5ver over 30' in the front and back as my "drive" into the slip is VERY sloped. How has that trailer quality been? Only issue I saw was kitchen counter space was a tad limited.



BTW: I don't much care where something is manufactured except Canada... think we are still technically at war with them?
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:50 PM   #24
itat
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Okay, itat, YOU brought up tires! How did you think this would end? Your point that origin of a product doesn't equate to its quality/value is lost. You have dared challenge the site gurus and have been put in your place.



By the way, I always get curious about the trailers others own and looked up your trailer and that appears to be one of the best floorplans I have ever seen on any trailer. I don't like the length for myself (my parking slip here on the property is the limiting factor) but think a travel trailer might work; hard to level a 5ver over 30' in the front and back as my "drive" into the slip is VERY sloped. How has that trailer quality been? Only issue I saw was kitchen counter space was a tad limited.



BTW: I don't much care where something is manufactured except Canada... think we are still technically at war with them?
LOL this thread is about tires! At least the thread didn't devolve into rants about China bombs.

We're not even technically at war. I don't know how our steel and aluminum became "a national security threat".

You asked about my TT...it's a Forest River Rockwood Signature. It's been a great trailer for us. I bought it used so I don't know what it was like brand new but it's been basically trouble-free for the 4 years we've owned it.

I'm here on the Keystone forum because I'm looking to move to a fifth wheel and we're considering a Cougar Half Ton 30RLS. Rockwood doesn't have a similar floorplan. I agree our TT is short on counter space but the amount of inside storage is hard to find in a different floor plan.

BTW, I also own a GoldWing (made in Ohio).
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:35 AM   #25
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Nowadays I don't think the state, country or continent a product is manufactured in is as big a concern as the work force. Most companies today are only concerned about the bottom line & how fast they can build it up, while the majority of the work force is interested in 2 things, #1 - quitting time, the earlier the better, #2 - payday, the more the better, no loyalty or pride & could give a rat's a## how it got put together.
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:58 AM   #26
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I am positive that some countries manufacture at high standard; such as Japan; most of the stuff made there is fine. Other countries manufacture JUNK unless the company in that country is owned by a 1st world company. A company, say from the USA manufactures in China, I think there is a liklihood of greater quality control and higher material quality than a Chinese based company. Not saying this is true in every case but I doubt it makes a great deal of difference if a tire is made in China in a factory controlled by a US (or Canadian or Brit or German, etc) company or if the tire is made in those 1st world countries itself. For instance, the Triumph Bonneville line of motorcycles was built in the UK and they moved operations to Thailand (I am pretty sure that is correct but it is a 3rd world country) and the quality hasn't dropped off. I have owned bikes made in both places and the quality, fit and finish and parts are indistinguishable. I agree with Danny that the work force is important but companies have control over the quality of the work force and I believe that a work force being paid by a 1st world country regardless of where the manufacturer is located will be better than a sweat shop crew in China or India.
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:47 AM   #27
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I think if you re-read my post you’ll realize that’s not what I said at all. I never said that I think foreign-made products are a guarantee either. I’ve consistently said on this and other forums that the quality of a product is dependent entirely on what the company paying for the manufacture demands. It does’t matter where the product was made - USA, Canada, China, Thailand, wherever - its the design and the quality standards used in the manufacture.

Our Toyota RAV4 is made here in Ontario and is a good quality vehicle. My Maxxis ST trailer tires are made in Thailand and are a good quality product. You can easily find domestic and foreign made products that are crap.

I said I won’t buy another domestic car (and I mean cars, not trucks - I own a F-250) because my experience has been that the Toyota and Nissan cars I’ve owned have been far superior to the Big 3’s cars I’ve owned. (I owned a Honda once and it was good but cost of ownership was similar to a GM.) Plus domestic car dealerships have been far inferior to Toyota and Nissan dealerships I my experience.

Sorry, I know this is about tires but just have to throw this out since it's been thrown out.

I've owned LOTS of new cars in my day, foreign and domestic. I will say that several years back it was a given that a Japanese vehicle was better built; years before that they were built like little playtoys (1973 Toyota Celica comes to mind) made for 4' midgets. The one thing you could count on was the engine was going to be tight with no leaks and no oil usage. Fast forward to today -

The U.S. companies have got the message. The current crop of autos will compare with most anything from Japan. The Japanese still make a very tight engine....just no power. The US engines have gotten to be very tight and trouble free as well. My Ram has 69000 on it and the oil is still just barely light brown and doesn't use a drop in the every 5k I change it. Huge difference over the old days. The Japanese used to build a tighter body with more attention paid to details - the U.S. vehicles by and large are comparable (dollar for dollar). I traded a 17 Ford Explorer in for a 17 Toyota 4runner (I had had a previous '10 4runner). Comparison? The Explorer was built just as well as the 4runner; it ran much better (more power); the U.S. electronics is head and shoulders above the Japanese nowadays (used to be the reverse); Explorer would have been quieter if it hadn't had cheap Hankook tires on it; and, US autos use MUCH better glass on their vehicles. In all my U.S. vehicles it would take a sizable rock to chip a windshield - they usually just bounce off. Toyota glass must be tissue thin. On my last 2 4runners the glass was chipped within 7 days of purchase. The 2010 got a hole so deep you could stick your finger in it - same on the 17 but not quite as deep. The 17 has about 15k on it now and it has 6 dings in the windshield already; if you STARE at it for more than a minute it cracks.

Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there as we discuss "tires". Oh, did you ever notice how a Japanese vehicle designed the driver layout...?? Sort of like built for that odd shaped person that doesn't exist and needs a steering wheel off center from the driver seat? Ha! Just received a survey from Toyota on the 17 Wednesday and one of the questions is if I had a complaint about the off center steering wheel!

Edit: Forgot about the dealerships. Toyota has good dealerships in general (I've used them all across the S and SW), they are better if they also sell Lexus. On the other hand the U.S. dealerships have gotten much better than they used to be - I think because the bar had been raised.

Bottom line IMO is that it would be a mistake to write off the Big 3 vehicles because of a misperception that the Japanese make the best vehicles out there bar none - they don't. Like anything else, do your due diligence, look, poke, prod, test drive and pick what fits for you....mechanically all of the vehicles have moved light years ahead of what "they used to be".
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:58 AM   #28
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You know nowadays I tend to look at price 1st then look at reviews 2nd. If the reviews are good I'll go with it. If the reviews are bad I'll move on. Doesn't really matter where it's made as long as it does the job. And for more than a week. That too is important.
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:06 AM   #29
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Wow, I asked a question 17 posts ago and here we are still debating!
God bless our country and this forum for enabling the average person to express their opinion.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:30 AM   #30
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Wow, I asked a question 17 posts ago and here we are still debating!
God bless our country and this forum for enabling the average person to express their opinion.

Ha! I think we are in the middle of a long weekend and folks have some time on their hands looking for something to do and what works better than a forum and group of friends where one can "opine" on most any subject!
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:49 PM   #31
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I just put on a set of Goodyear Endurance tires on our 2015 Sprinter TT this past Spring. Driven over 2500 miles on 'em & so far I'm impressed with their ride and handling. As to longevity, we shall see..... but, I have an idea that GY has come thru with a winner this time - and a made in the USA one at that. Just my 2cw on trailer tires.
PS: I had no trouble from the factory Trailer Kings use for the first three seasons. Maybe because I kept them aired properly and stayed within their speed ratings. Just decided not to push my luck. And, yes, RSL, "tires are good"! :-)
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:17 PM   #32
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I just put on a set of Goodyear Endurance tires on our 2015 Sprinter TT this past Spring. Driven over 2500 miles on 'em & so far I'm impressed with their ride and handling. As to longevity, we shall see..... but, I have an idea that GY has come thru with a winner this time - and a made in the USA one at that. Just my 2cw on trailer tires.
PS: I had no trouble from the factory Trailer Kings use for the first three seasons. Maybe because I kept them aired properly and stayed within their speed ratings. Just decided not to push my luck. And, yes, RSL, "tires are good"! :-)
Careful...! Although I'm anal about air pressure before departing daily, never exceed 65mph along with many others, you just implied that YOU take care of business and anyone else that has had trouble with "China bombs" didn't do as good a job as you..... There are SO many more considerations to take into account that you apparently are ignorant of... You might think of loading, weights etc. before you figure you've got the answer to everything (or, might search the forum).
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:08 PM   #33
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I don't believe that I made any claim to having the "answer" to anything at all. Nor do I make that claim now or ever. Also, you may read whatever you care to in my statement, however being the actual author of the statement, I made NO such implication. You decided to take it in a negative way - not me. It was simply a statement of how things went for me. BTW, those who speak of ignorance are generally well versed in it themselves. I believe that my opinions and experiences are just that - MINE, And, I will share them as I wish. Now, go insult someone else who might give a damn
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:17 PM   #34
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I have been enjoying the friendship shown on this forum - until now. That being said , I bid you all farewell. Life's too short......and getting shorter.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:41 PM   #35
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I don't believe that I made any claim to having the "answer" to anything at all. Nor do I make that claim now or ever. Also, you may read whatever you care to in my statement, however being the actual author of the statement, I made NO such implication. You decided to take it in a negative way - not me. It was simply a statement of how things went for me. BTW, those who speak of ignorance are generally well versed in it themselves. I believe that my opinions and experiences are just that - MINE, And, I will share them as I wish. Now, go insult someone else who might give a damn

Sorry if you felt insulted, it wasn't intended. I tried to point out that your choice of wording actually put down lots of folks that check their air pressure daily and watch their speed - your statement would imply they didn't. How else would "you" be successful doing that while so many have had failures? And, Trailer Kings (China bombs) have caused catastrophic damages to several members; you actually imply that could have been averted by doing what you do - " Maybe because I kept them aired properly and stayed within their speed ratings. Just decided not to push my luck."

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge; what I felt might be the problem by the statement made and why I referenced other mitigating factors other than speed and pressure. Ignorance is not a bad thing unless you choose to not grow your knowledge.

I too really like this forum, the friendship and the knowledge. We have to, as best we can, express ourselves in a way that gets the message across without offending...too much. Having had to write MANY documents over my lifetime to MANY different groups with various perspectives I can tell you that your statement; " Also, you may read whatever you care to in my statement, however being the actual author of the statement, I made NO such implication. You decided to take it in a negative way - not me." - needs some thought. YOU need to know what I'm going to read into your words and what you actually said; it is irrelevant if you think your words are negative...it's the audience you need to think about. But, enough of that.

Don't go away mad. This is a great group and we want to share thoughts and experiences - we all grow from them. I wasn't offended by your post, just wanted to point out the implication of your words. We also have to understand what we write and the meaning; accepting any feedback without being insulted. And, life IS too short, stay on board or just go have fun.
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:43 AM   #36
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To Danny's point...There seems to be a trend today that has steered us away from civil discourse. Whenever we make a statement, be it fact or opinion, there will be those that disagree and that is fine. We run into trouble when we are offended and/or take personally someone disagreeing with our statement.
I've been knocking around in this old world for 71 years and I like to think that I've got a pretty good grip on how things work. However, from time to time, someone will point out the error in my thinking or remind me that I'm not as smart as I think I am. I'm thankful for that.
For my part, I enjoy the discourse and banter as long as it is intended to inform and help us all enjoy our chosen camping lifestyle. so, let's keep it going, keep it clean, and keep it fun. Don't get offended, pick up your marbles and go home. Stay involved so we can all learn from your knowledge and/or lack there of.
Good post Danny - I agree with your statement
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:21 PM   #37
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Tires - or any product for that matter - made in the USA or Canada are not an automatic guarantee of good quality although they are good for the local economy. We can all think of domestic products that are inferior to the same product from oversees be it Asia or Europe. Cars are a perfect example. I refuse to buy another car from the Big 3 and I live in a community where GM and their feeder companies are a major employer. It all depends on what the company paying for the build wants to specify for quality. My Maxxis ST trailer tires are good quality and made in Thailand.

Edit: I’ve had Carlisle ST tires before and would buy them again.
The only way to verify where a specific tire is/was manufactured is to read the plant code from the sidewall of your tires.

I take a lot of tire pictures. I don't often post plant code pictures because the next batch of their tires may come from a completely different plant.

http://www.maxxisglobal.com/mg1/techcenters.html
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