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Old 01-14-2018, 07:13 PM   #41
Gegrad
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Thanks for the explanation John!
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:55 PM   #42
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Thank you to all who contributed.
I'm not sure what I will do ! Lots of great information.

Currently live 1 hour south of Tampa, FL so I'm headed to the super large RV show next weekend. All the manufacturers will be there- however I wont ask too many questions as the reps don't always know much about the actual towing aspect :-)

I started the thread. But, here's my hijacked photos. If I get a fifth wheel and install a hitch, I will certainly miss my home-made 3/4 extension pull out slide for the enclosed pick up bed. What's special is there are no bolts holding it down anywhere and it always stays in place. No holes drilled in the truck bed. There are 4 mini wood boxes wedged around the wheel wells and clevis pinned to the slide mechanism. Basically the plywood slides on aluminum rails & approx. 20 round ball bearings (purchased from Harbor Freight) below. Also, in photo(s) you will see an old, cut-up weathertech mat stapled down for a portion of the slide. Piece of 2" wide black webbing serves as the pull handle. This slide is very well traveled and still serves quite well- from hauling Honda generators to Costco runs!
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:19 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Gegrad View Post
So if the weights are the exact same and it is just a game, then the people who have the lower GVW weight trucks going over by 1000 lbs aren't really dangerous (since it could just have easily been 11500 instead of 9900); they are just "illegal" according to stickers. From a safety standpoint as far as the structural components of the truck there is literally nothing to be worried about.

Edited This kind of manufacturer BS is exactly why people don't worry about going over the payload by a few hundred lbs.
If the payload ratings are different then it could very well be a different spring pack rating which could be pretty hard to tell just by looking. I'm just really amazed at all the manufacturer professionals that are quick to tell someone its ok to exceed their truck ratings...just don't get it. Like telling someone its ok to do what ever you want or feel comfy with! If your truck will pull it, get out there and go!
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:08 AM   #44
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What’s funny, I have Ram 2500 5.7 but the 2500 with the 6.4(same rear HD coils) has 1000 more payload. No one on the Ram forums has been able to explain that one. Same truck with different engine
You might try this site, put in your VIN and you will get the factory build sheet. It might have the necessary information why you have a 9,000# GVWR and not a 10,000# GVWR.

https://chrysler.custhelp.com/app/ch...listing_detail
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:26 AM   #45
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If the payload ratings are different then it could very well be a different spring pack rating which could be pretty hard to tell just by looking. I'm just really amazed at all the manufacturer professionals that are quick to tell someone its ok to exceed their truck ratings...just don't get it. Like telling someone its ok to do what ever you want or feel comfy with! If your truck will pull it, get out there and go!
Someone from RAM should be able to tell if he has a different Coil Spring reducing his GVWR to 9000. Then if so inclined he could personally take a VIN from a 6.4 truck with the 10,000 GVWR and heavier spring, order those springs install them at his own risk, and at least from a safety standpoint be safer. If RAM won't help he would be best taking the VIN's of his truck and a VIN with a 6.4 truck and 10,000 GVWR and taking it to a competent dealer with a competent parts department and have them look up both VINs and see if there is a difference in the part #'s of the coils.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:27 AM   #46
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Someone from RAM should be able to tell if he has a different Coil Spring reducing his GVWR to 9000. Then if so inclined he could personally take a VIN from a 6.4 truck with the 10,000 GVWR and heavier spring, order those springs install them at his own risk, and at least from a safety standpoint be safer. If RAM won't help he would be best taking the VIN's of his truck and a VIN with a 6.4 truck and 10,000 GVWR and taking it to a competent dealer with a competent parts department and have them look up both VINs and see if there is a difference in the part #'s of the coils.
I would bet that the spring is the same part number!
If any difference in the truck likely tires, maybe the 9,000# has 17” wheels and the 10,000# has 18” wheels.
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:11 AM   #47
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I would bet that the spring is the same part number!
If any difference in the truck likely tires, maybe the 9,000# has 17” wheels and the 10,000# has 18” wheels.
I have 20" wheels and get the same GVWR as the 18" wheels. I've been told the coils are identical. When you build a Ram online, selecting 5.7 gives you a 9,000 GVWR and selecting 6.4 gives you 10,000 GVWR. Payload goes from 2250 to 3300 just like that, lol. Total curb weight is 50lbs different. I don't know
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:14 AM   #48
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While none of us "really know" the differences, there could be "no difference at all" or it could be tires, wheels, shock mounts, pinion/ring in the axles, or it could be something as obscure as the rivets that hold the spring mounts to the frame or even the rear bumper/front bumper that don't/won't absorb the impact at below the 5MPH bumper rating. There are thousands of components that make up the entire vehicle and any one of them "could be" a lighter duty component used on a "reduced GVW vehicle"..... Sometimes, it's not even the suspension/tires/wheels/axles that limit the GVW rating, and sometimes it may well be "just a paperwork adjustment"....

The sad part is how difficult it is to research your specific vehicle to see what the limiting factor or factors is/are. It isn't sufficient to research until you find something different and then stop, there may be 100 more parts that make up that package or there may be none. Hard to tell "positively" from just checking a few major components.

Most of the GVW options are aimed at the commercial market where vehicles are "taxed/regulated" by tare weight (and required to post that weight on the door) and most of those GVW options are ignored on private vehicles "not intended for commercial use". But in some states, any truck can be defined as a commercial vehicle by law, without regard to how it's really used. So, a "most confusing situation" for someone with a truck to "really know what its capacity really could be, by changing just springs, or tires, or adding air bags, etc......
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:19 AM   #49
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Trust me, the 4 generation Ram bumper system will not come close to protecting you in a 5 mph crash. Not even empty. New bumper and all attachment components required, plus body damage.
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:46 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by KHBama View Post
What’s funny, I have Ram 2500 5.7 but the 2500 with the 6.4(same rear HD coils) has 1000 more payload. No one on the Ram forums has been able to explain that one. Same truck with different engine
I also have a 2500 with the 6.4L hemi. My "sticker" payload is 3,128lb! The difference is the engine weight and then options. The difference in weight of the cummins alone is around ~800lb, hence the lower payload on 2500 diesel. Gas engines are FAR lighter than diesels, which is what pushed me into the 6.4 gasser.... coil springs for a smoother ride, but with the payload of a 3500!

To to original post... if it helps at all, with my truck with the 6.4L hemi and fifth wheel (34' Hideout 5er) I have a pin weight dry of 1,610 (1,900 loaded, plus reese slider of 200lb), add firewood in the truck bed etc, gear & passengers brings total actual payload including the trailer to usually around 2,800 ~ 3,000lb. My 2500 has a GVW of 10,000 (same as yours) and the last time I hit the scales it showed my truck to weigh 9,850lb - pretty close, but not over.

I think others have said it... you will be very close (like me), if not over your payload of 2,020lb. How much over you can go depends on your comfort level and what you feel is right. I once towed a TT with a half ton that was "very close" to the margins, and back then (even before I bought a 5er) decided to upgrade to my current 2500, because I didn't want to live with being over payload (and I was only 200lb over). I now look at all the 1/2 tons towing TT's (and some 5ers!!) out there, and to be honest - I walk around the campground and a good % are clearly WAY over their payloads based on the size of trailers they're towing. I camped next to a guy who was towing a 32' Cougar fifth with his 1/2 Ton Laramie (IE fully optioned) Ram, and there is no way he wasn't at LEAST 500lb if not more over his payload capacity. Did I say anything? No... but it tells me that everyone will make their own decision about these kinds of things, and so should you.

I wish you all the best with your decision. But know 1 thing - the Ram HD trucks are VERY capable of hauling heavy loads. I have been hugely impressed with my 2500 towing my 5er and so close to my payload limits. It works for me.
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by KHBama View Post
I have 20" wheels and get the same GVWR as the 18" wheels. I've been told the coils are identical. When you build a Ram online, selecting 5.7 gives you a 9,000 GVWR and selecting 6.4 gives you 10,000 GVWR. Payload goes from 2250 to 3300 just like that, lol. Total curb weight is 50lbs different. I don't know
Honestly, the difference in hardware is little....

The reasoning is marketing and sales related really. Ask yourself, as a customer... "What do I get for an extra $2,200 for the 6.4L option?" The answer is... you pay more, then you get a higher GVW sticker, as well as fuel-saver MDS. It means it's a little better on gas with the cylinder de-activation + legally you can haul more with an increased payload sticker. The 6.4L engine is of course more capable, but not THAT much more than the 5.7. If the 5.7 had a 10,000lb GVW also, then nobody would bother buying a 6.4..... it's that easy
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Old 01-16-2018, 08:23 AM   #52
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Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but you can always look up the rating for your specific truck. Punch in your vin

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

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Old 01-16-2018, 10:51 AM   #53
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I also have a 2500 with the 6.4L hemi. My "sticker" payload is 3,128lb! The difference is the engine weight and then options. The difference in weight of the cummins alone is around ~800lb, hence the lower payload on 2500 diesel. Gas engines are FAR lighter than diesels, which is what pushed me into the 6.4 gasser.... coil springs for a smoother ride, but with the payload of a 3500!
curb weight of a 6.4L SLT 4X4 CC is 50lbs more the 5.7L SLT 4X4 CC. I understand the diesel having lower payload, but not the 5.7
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:56 AM   #54
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Honestly, the difference in hardware is little....

The reasoning is marketing and sales related really. Ask yourself, as a customer... "What do I get for an extra $2,200 for the 6.4L option?" The answer is... you pay more, then you get a higher GVW sticker, as well as fuel-saver MDS. It means it's a little better on gas with the cylinder de-activation + legally you can haul more with an increased payload sticker. The 6.4L engine is of course more capable, but not THAT much more than the 5.7. If the 5.7 had a 10,000lb GVW also, then nobody would bother buying a 6.4..... it's that easy
Yep... This is why i giggle at the "weight" police. Its really aggravating to abide to the rules and regulations when they are way off base vs reality.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:42 AM   #55
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This whole discussion is why I really wish we could find out what happens to this guy with his F-250 from the CHP, and any lawyers/ lawsuits (if involved).

https://youtu.be/DOnxT1S4Irw
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:04 PM   #56
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This whole discussion is why I really wish we could find out what happens to this guy with his F-250 from the CHP, and any lawyers/ lawsuits (if involved).

https://youtu.be/DOnxT1S4Irw
He was probably nearing F350 srw weights limits without the modifications to the truck he made. There has to be some common sense used when willing to go over the 3/4 ton 10000 gvwr. Unfortunately his poor choice of judgement was even before it was legal to smoke pot in California, so no excuses.
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:14 PM   #57
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"Yep... This is why i giggle at the "weight" police. Its really aggravating to abide to the rules and regulations when they are way off base vs reality."

I feel pretty much to same way. I have tried and tried to get my pharmacist to issue me a hundred or so amoxicillin just to tide the lovely bride and I over until we get home, but to no avail. I just don't understand why I should have to see a doctor.....
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:37 PM   #58
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Honestly, the difference in hardware is little....

The reasoning is marketing and sales related really. Ask yourself, as a customer... "What do I get for an extra $2,200 for the 6.4L option?" The answer is... you pay more, then you get a higher GVW sticker, as well as fuel-saver MDS. It means it's a little better on gas with the cylinder de-activation + legally you can haul more with an increased payload sticker. The 6.4L engine is of course more capable, but not THAT much more than the 5.7. If the 5.7 had a 10,000lb GVW also, then nobody would bother buying a 6.4..... it's that easy
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He was probably nearing F350 srw weights limits without the modifications to the truck he made. There has to be some common sense used when willing to go over the 3/4 ton 10000 gvwr. Unfortunately his poor choice of judgement was even before it was legal to smoke pot in California, so no excuses.
Yes common sense definitely needs to be used. Keep in mind, my aggravation comes when I'm technically over payload on our "super lite"weight 5th wheel. Now if you see me towing a 12,000-16,000 gvwr 5er with my Ram 2500, please feel free to pull me over and slap me around around a bit
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:58 PM   #59
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I know, totally unrelated. I just saw this guy driving around Los Angeles


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Old 01-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #60
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I know, totally unrelated. I just saw this guy driving around Los Angeles


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Interesting seems like a chopped up late 90’s early 00’s Mercedes carrying a Six PAC camper, thoses were designed for Rangers and Colorado’s. It is sitting level, would love to see how the Mercedes was cut up to make it fit!
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