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Old 02-12-2019, 06:46 AM   #1
c_l_phillips72
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New 290BHS and several random questions

So after looking at all sorts of TT, and buying 3 but backing out on 2, I've decided to buy a 2019 Bullet 290BHS.

I know some people may have an opinion that the 290BHS is too much of a TT for my truck, but after looking at all of the numbers I'm confident I'll come in under max payload, GVWR and GCVWR of my truck.

To be very clear, if I loaded the TT to it's FULL capacity (1,792 lbs), then I would not be able to stay under max payload without removing things from my truck (running boards, tonneau cover, rear seats if that's even possible).

If I loaded the TT with ~700 lbs, I will be within the max payload (and that's with 15% of the tongue weight using up my payload, and it may not be 15%).

So here's a few questions...
1) The manufacturer lists the hitch weight at 705 lbs, and the GVWR at 7600. So the tongue weight they list is 9.27% of the GVWR. Does that mean that the manufacturer believes the trailer rides best when 9.27% of the TT weight rests on the truck, or is that just a random number that was picked out of a hat?

2) What options are available to attempt to load ~10% tongue weight on the truck? Is it all done by adjusting the Weight Distribution hitch? Does it have ANYTHING to do with where things are sitting inside the camper? For example, would putting everything in the back of the camper help with reducing the tongue weight on the truck?

3) I've read that the driving experience will be different based on the tongue weight. Sometimes for a better experience, you need more or less tongue weight, so I'm just trying to understand how I could vary the tongue weight.

4) Are there other 290BHS owners out there? I've read some reviews and most weren't positive.

5) I've been previously told that I might want to use LT tires, but I don't remember what the benefit is to use them. Are these like the ones that most would suggest?

https://www.bbwheelsonline.com/nitto...count-217-330/

6) I have to pick up the 290BHS in Liberty, MO, and I live in Lincoln. My local Keystone dealer salesman told me I may have to bring that trailer to Liberty for warranty service since my local dealer doesn't sell the 290BHS. Is this true, or most likely that salesman trying to discourage me from buying elsewhere? I'm thinking the latter, as I think there would be a lot of ticked off customers who have something terribly wrong happen on vacation and not be able to get it fixed until it's Semi'd back home for warranty work.

7) What happens if something majorly goes wrong with the trailer that prevents it from being trailored to a dealer?

8) What if the slide won't slide back in? Can it still be towed behind the truck? I'm thinking it would be very dangerous to do so.

9) Is there any reason to believe that when the trailer is drained of water (fresh, grey, dark) that not all water will get out, or does ALL water drain? Do I need to flush the lines or anything to make sure everything comes out?

Thanks in advance.

Chris
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:11 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by c_l_phillips72 View Post
1) The manufacturer lists the hitch weight at 705 lbs, and the GVWR at 7600. So the tongue weight they list is 9.27% of the GVWR. Does that mean that the manufacturer believes the trailer rides best when 9.27% of the TT weight rests on the truck, or is that just a random number that was picked out of a hat?
The 705 lbs is roughly 12% of the empty weight and is only used for spec listing.

The actual tongue weight will be unknown until it is actually weighed after everything is loaded up. For calculation purposes, most people use the trailer GVW (7600 lbs) to determine the tongue weight. It will usually range from 10-15% of that weight, and most people use 15% as that gives you a rough maximum to use for safety purposes.

I'd guess that the actual tongue weight once loaded, would be somewhere between 900-1000 lbs for that trailer.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #3
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7) What happens if something majorly goes wrong with the trailer that prevents it from being trailored to a dealer?
8) What if the slide won't slide back in? Can it still be towed behind the truck? I'm thinking it would be very dangerous to do so.
There are mobile technicians available that can come to the trailer if needed.

NEVER tow with a slide out.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #4
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Liberty RV and the folks there are excellent. I have bought 3 Trailers from them. I think very highly of them. Honest, easy to work with. Great dealership.

Dealers, unlike the car dealers, do not have to work on the trailers they do not sell. That said, it would be because of that. Not that they could not because they dont sell that trailer. That is baloney. All the parts are the same on all the trailers. If you can work on one, you can work on all of them.

If you do a search on the forum, you'll find lots of posts about this topic.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:18 AM   #5
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9) Is there any reason to believe that when the trailer is drained of water (fresh, grey, dark) that not all water will get out, or does ALL water drain? Do I need to flush the lines or anything to make sure everything comes out?
Yes, there will be residual water in those places. Do a search about winterization and you will find numerous information on how-to's and other pertinent knowledge.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:28 AM   #6
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Liberty RV and the folks there are excellent. I have bought 3 Trailers from them. I think very highly of them. Honest, easy to work with. Great dealership.

Dealers, unlike the car dealers, do not have to work on the trailers they do not sell. That said, it would be because of that. Not that they could not because they dont sell that trailer. That is baloney. All the parts are the same on all the trailers. If you can work on one, you can work on all of them.

If you do a search on the forum, you'll find lots of posts about this topic.

If it’s warranty work, then the “servicing” dealer has to an authorized dealer for payment from factory, Non warranty anybody can do. We no longer sell Keystone products so we won’t do any warranty work on them.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by c_l_phillips72 View Post

1) The manufacturer lists the hitch weight at 705 lbs, and the GVWR at 7600. So the tongue weight they list is 9.27% of the GVWR. Does that mean that the manufacturer believes the trailer rides best when 9.27% of the TT weight rests on the truck, or is that just a random number that was picked out of a hat?

The manufacturers hitch weight is a mandatory weight the trailer builder must use during vehicle certification. It reads like this. The sum of the hitch weight when added to the total vehicle certified GAWR weight MUST not be less than GVWR. It's a computer generated weight that will fit within the lower end of what most industry experts recommend for safe loading. As you can see from how it is used it's not a dry weight because it provides coverage all the way to GVWR, the maximum weight for that trailer. Once you own the trailer it becomes 100% your responsibility to properly manage that weight.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:33 AM   #8
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5) I've been previously told that I might want to use LT tires, but I don't remember what the benefit is to use them. Are these like the ones that most would suggest?
https://www.bbwheelsonline.com/nitto...count-217-330/

The OE tires on your Tow Vehicle were fitted to it with the ability to carry all loads up to GVWR safely. So it will be your call to make decisions based on the truck's performance with the trailer in tow. I'd recommend using the maximum permissible inflation pressure displayed on the tire sidewall for towing and then lowering it back down when the trailer is parked.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:03 PM   #9
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An attempt to answer some of your questions:

1) The manufacturer listed approx. 12% of the dry weight as the "dry" tongue weight (this was already answered). The manufacturer does not think the trailer tows best with 9.27% of the weight on the truck.

2) You don't want less than 10% on the tongue - there's a 99% chance it will really be squirrely to pull. You can adjust tongue weight, a little, by the way you load the contents and selecting what you carry. It will never be at dry weight once you own it. Plan on 12-15% for it to tow at an optimal level.

3) You can adjust the tongue weight by the above and adjustment of the WDH - within reason.

4) Don't know.

5) Some like LT tires on a trailer - I'm not a proponent. On a trailer of the size you are getting I would not think they would be needed.

6) Your local dealer is giving you the straight scoop. If you buy it from a far away dealer, that may be the only place that will perform any warranty work. If you want to pay out of your pocket, I'm sure the local folks will be more than happy to oblige. If you search you will find many stories of this.

7) There are various "insurance" plans out there that will get your trailer where it needs to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

8) You will need to find a way to get the slide back in. DO NOT pull the trailer with a slide out.

9) There is every reason to believe that all the water when drained will not come out. There are many, many threads on winterizing as well as videos if you google on how to perform the winterization. DO NOT just open the drains and call it good. You do need to flush the lines, and depending on where you live, then add antifreeze.
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:32 PM   #10
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Chris-
As for the tire issue, I would save some money and simply put a set of Carlisles or Sailuns on it in ST 15" LRE size. That will give you plenty of carrying capacity while getting rid of the China bombs. The ride will be better than LT tires, especially since you won't be packing much in the unit.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:15 AM   #11
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I'm wondering if the OP wasn't asking if his TV should have LT tires....His link shows 20" Grappler.
Chris, when you take delivery of your new toy kindly post on here what brand tires Keystone put on your new trailer. We can better tell at that point if we have good news or bad news for you. There are a few brands out there (Trailer King comes to mind) that are notoriously prone to blow-outs. Usually it is just a matter of picking up five Carlisle's or Maxxis (or other brands we can tell you about) and selling the 5 originals on Craigslist or to the tire dealer.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
Liberty RV and the folks there are excellent. I have bought 3 Trailers from them. I think very highly of them. Honest, easy to work with. Great dealership.

Dealers, unlike the car dealers, do not have to work on the trailers they do not sell. That said, it would be because of that. Not that they could not because they dont sell that trailer. That is baloney. All the parts are the same on all the trailers. If you can work on one, you can work on all of them.

If you do a search on the forum, you'll find lots of posts about this topic.
Yeah, I've been working with Travis (the internet sales manager), and he's been great to work with. Evidently, his brother is the GM and the finance manager, and their friend is the owner.

I told Travis today that my local dealer (Leach's) told me that they could not perform any warranty work since they don't sell the Bullet line of Keystone. They sell other lines like, Hideout, Passport, etc, but not the Bullet.

Travis was pretty ticked off that Leach's would say that, and he spoke with his Keystone rep. His rep told him that Leach's was not being honest with me, and that they COULD do the warranty work and if I had problems with them doing so, he would call and get it taken care of.

I'm also going to buy an extended warranty that makes any dealer available to work on it, and pays the full hourly rate rather than the factory warranty rate. That has made me feel quite a bit better.

Travis also told me that he could get a field tech out to me, rather than me bringing it in, but if I brought it to him he'd take good care of me knowing I bought it from out of town and brought it back for service from out of town.

I just don't want to have my camper sitting and waiting for service throughout the entire summer and not even be able to use it.

Anyway, I'm happy to have finally decided on the one that I want, because quite honestly I was getting tired of looking at them. Two straight weeks, every day, looking at campers is too much.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:34 PM   #13
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I'm wondering if the OP wasn't asking if his TV should have LT tires....His link shows 20" Grappler.
Chris, when you take delivery of your new toy kindly post on here what brand tires Keystone put on your new trailer. We can better tell at that point if we have good news or bad news for you. There are a few brands out there (Trailer King comes to mind) that are notoriously prone to blow-outs. Usually it is just a matter of picking up five Carlisle's or Maxxis (or other brands we can tell you about) and selling the 5 originals on Craigslist or to the tire dealer.
Yes, you were right. I was asking about my TV. I think maybe someone was suggesting LT tires because it would help support the new full GVWR better.

As for the RV tires, I wonder if I could just ask for better tires from the manufacturer since the RV hasn't even been finished yet.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:39 PM   #14
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An attempt to answer some of your questions:

1) The manufacturer listed approx. 12% of the dry weight as the "dry" tongue weight (this was already answered). The manufacturer does not think the trailer tows best with 9.27% of the weight on the truck.

2) You don't want less than 10% on the tongue - there's a 99% chance it will really be squirrely to pull. You can adjust tongue weight, a little, by the way you load the contents and selecting what you carry. It will never be at dry weight once you own it. Plan on 12-15% for it to tow at an optimal level.

3) You can adjust the tongue weight by the above and adjustment of the WDH - within reason.

4) Don't know.

5) Some like LT tires on a trailer - I'm not a proponent. On a trailer of the size you are getting I would not think they would be needed.

6) Your local dealer is giving you the straight scoop. If you buy it from a far away dealer, that may be the only place that will perform any warranty work. If you want to pay out of your pocket, I'm sure the local folks will be more than happy to oblige. If you search you will find many stories of this.

7) There are various "insurance" plans out there that will get your trailer where it needs to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

8) You will need to find a way to get the slide back in. DO NOT pull the trailer with a slide out.

9) There is every reason to believe that all the water when drained will not come out. There are many, many threads on winterizing as well as videos if you google on how to perform the winterization. DO NOT just open the drains and call it good. You do need to flush the lines, and depending on where you live, then add antifreeze.
Thanks for your responses. When I pick up the trailer, would they be able to show me how I could use the WDH to vary the tongue weight? Is that something that they would know?

I'll have to do some more research on winterization. At camp grounds with full hookups, is there a way to flush the lines to make sure I get everything out? I really don't want to drive with any water weight, at all.
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:26 PM   #15
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As for the RV tires, I wonder if I could just ask for better tires from the manufacturer since the RV hasn't even been finished yet.

The post in the reference below addresses the subject above.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=36622
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:54 PM   #16
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Thanks for your responses. When I pick up the trailer, would they be able to show me how I could use the WDH to vary the tongue weight? Is that something that they would know?

I'll have to do some more research on winterization. At camp grounds with full hookups, is there a way to flush the lines to make sure I get everything out? I really don't want to drive with any water weight, at all.

You don't want to use the WDH to try to manipulate the weight loads per se. Load the trailer as you intend to camp - and the truck. You NEED to load it with what you actually will take and what you NEED to enjoy the trip - that will weigh several hundred pounds (barest minimum) and needs to be there no matter what. When loaded (propane full, batteries installed) then install the hitch (or dealer). Then it will be set for you load. If you are getting the Equalizer download their installation manual which is informative. If unable, let the dealer set it up but be very familiar with the setup procedure and guidelines - many dealerships have techs install them that don't really know what they are doing. If you don't do the above you will need to readjust the hitch installation to account for the additional weights.

Staying at full campsites with full hookups and using the city water inlet just turn it off and cover the outside inlet on the trailer. You don't want to be opening the low point drains every time you leave a campsite. There won't be much water in the lines after that process (2 gal.?? guess - 8lb.) and certainly not worth messing with before each move.

I am not sure what tires are on your truck but if they are P rated passenger tires (the size designation will begin with a P), you need to upgrade to LT tires in the size the manufacturer put on the truck - if you haven't modified it.

As far as your selling dealer being upset with your local dealer because they said they wouldn't do warranty work....of course they would be - they don't want you to be thinking about that. As far as them contacting Keystone and Keystone will then "make", "force" etc. your local dealer take care of you....ain't gonna happen. Every dealership determines what lines of RVs they are going to carry...and service. The manufacturers don't call them up and tell them to sell or service anything. If it were me, I would be in the office with "Travis" and the GM asking for assurances in writing. "Internet sales" folks, and "GMs" from unassociated dealerships from far away will swing exactly zero influence with your local dealer.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:26 PM   #17
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New 290BHS and several random questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
You don't want to use the WDH to try to manipulate the weight loads per se. Load the trailer as you intend to camp - and the truck. You NEED to load it with what you actually will take and what you NEED to enjoy the trip - that will weigh several hundred pounds (barest minimum) and needs to be there no matter what. When loaded (propane full, batteries installed) then install the hitch (or dealer). Then it will be set for you load. If you are getting the Equalizer download their installation manual which is informative. If unable, let the dealer set it up but be very familiar with the setup procedure and guidelines - many dealerships have techs install them that don't really know what they are doing. If you don't do the above you will need to readjust the hitch installation to account for the additional weights.
Ok, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Staying at full campsites with full hookups and using the city water inlet just turn it off and cover the outside inlet on the trailer. You don't want to be opening the low point drains every time you leave a campsite. There won't be much water in the lines after that process (2 gal.?? guess - 8lb.) and certainly not worth messing with before each move.
Ok, I can live with that.

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I am not sure what tires are on your truck but if they are P rated passenger tires (the size designation will begin with a P), you need to upgrade to LT tires in the size the manufacturer put on the truck - if you haven't modified it.
The tires I have are 275/55/R20 OWL All Season Tires. I don’t see anything with a P, at least on the Window Sticker.

As for the truck, I’ve modified it a little. I put on a leveling kit so the front end is level with the rear.

Would it still be best to put LT tires? What is the benefit? I’m not arguing about it. I just want to understand why it’s recommended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
As far as your selling dealer being upset with your local dealer because they said they wouldn't do warranty work....of course they would be - they don't want you to be thinking about that. As far as them contacting Keystone and Keystone will then "make", "force" etc. your local dealer take care of you....ain't gonna happen. Every dealership determines what lines of RVs they are going to carry...and service. The manufacturers don't call them up and tell them to sell or service anything. If it were me, I would be in the office with "Travis" and the GM asking for assurances in writing. "Internet sales" folks, and "GMs" from unassociated dealerships from far away will swing exactly zero influence with your local dealer.

I didn’t think anyone from the selling dealership would have any influence, but I thought maybe their Keystone rep would. It might even be the same Rep for KC/Lincoln dealers, but I’m not sure.

I guess I’m confused why they’d outright refuse to do warranty work, and I’m confused (and a little pissed) at Keystone for allowing their sellers to provide such horrendous service for their product.

If I was the owner of Keystone, I’d want the best possible experience for my customers and would require all Keystone dealers to provide warranty service. If a specific seller didn’t want to do that, I’d go elsewhere and that seller wouldn’t be selling my products.

Since you’re saying that’s not the case, what’s going to happen when I go on vacation to somewhere that sells Keystone products, but they don’t sell the Bullet line? They just turn me down for service and I pay thousands of dollars to hire a semi truck to trailer the camper back to my selling dealership? That sounds ridiculous, and would for sure guarantee that I’d never buy any Keystone product again for the rest of my life.

But still, my main question is why some/most/all places would reject the warranty work and why Keystone feels its good business practice to let their customers get screwed over.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:45 PM   #18
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Ok, thank you.



Ok, I can live with that.



The tires I have are 275/55/R20 OWL All Season Tires. I don’t see anything with a P, at least on the Window Sticker.

As for the truck, I’ve modified it a little. I put on a leveling kit so the front end is level with the rear.

Would it still be best to put LT tires? What is the benefit? I’m not arguing about it. I just want to understand why it’s recommended.




I didn’t think anyone from the selling dealership would have any influence, but I thought maybe their Keystone rep would. It might even be the same Rep for KC/Lincoln dealers, but I’m not sure.

I guess I’m confused why they’d outright refuse to do warranty work, and I’m confused (and a little pissed) at Keystone for allowing their sellers to provide such horrendous service for their product.

If I was the owner of Keystone, I’d want the best possible experience for my customers and would require all Keystone dealers to provide warranty service. If a specific seller didn’t want to do that, I’d go elsewhere and that seller wouldn’t be selling my products.

Since you’re saying that’s not the case, what’s going to happen when I go on vacation to somewhere that sells Keystone products, but they don’t sell the Bullet line? They just turn me down for service and I pay thousands of dollars to hire a semi truck to trailer the camper back to my selling dealership? That sounds ridiculous, and would for sure guarantee that I’d never buy any Keystone product again for the rest of my life.

But still, my main question is why some/most/all places would reject the warranty work and why Keystone feels its good business practice to let their customers get screwed over.

Chris, I don't have a lot of time at the moment but a couple of things; the leveling kit on the truck is detrimental to towing IMO. You raised the front/lowered the rear. That's fine to "look cool" I guess but your trailer is going to drop the rear of your truck more than it would have if the tail had been left high - the WDH and loading won't fix what the leveling kit has done. I think some on here have installed a leveling kit and tow but I don't know what they did to compensate for that - especially with a 1500.

RV dealerships aren't car dealerships. The RV dealer chooses which RVs he wants to sell and service. The RV manufacturers WANT those dealers to carry their lines of products. Realize there are a myriad of RVs out there and a dealer can pick and choose which lines they want to carry. The DEALER is obligated to do the warranty work on a unit he sells....no one else. And, warranty work is paid at a lower rate and the hours allotted for a given repair are generally on the low side....so, the dealership, which is probably flooded with all kinds of service requests, full pay, make ready and warranty, will want all the full pays he can get but will make room for HIS warranty work....sometimes with very extended delays. Good dealerships will take care of you, others not so much. Also, good dealerships will take in warranty on an RV of the kind they sell....but they don't have to, and many don't. Confusing and aggravating? Yes. Real life? Yes.

On the tires, look at the load rating at max pressure so we can figure out what they are.

If you are traveling and have a breakdown you need to be prepared: for a long wait if someone will do the warranty work, or, make sure you have the monetary means to get the work done and "encourage" the dealer to "take care of you". On the other hand, I bought my trailer from Camping World, and many have negative things to say about them, but they have been stellar in taking care of me across the country, warranty and non warranty. I hope you find the same in your travels.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Chris, I don't have a lot of time at the moment but a couple of things; the leveling kit on the truck is detrimental to towing IMO. You raised the front/lowered the rear. That's fine to "look cool" I guess but your trailer is going to drop the rear of your truck more than it would have if the tail had been left high - the WDH and loading won't fix what the leveling kit has done. I think some on here have installed a leveling kit and tow but I don't know what they did to compensate for that - especially with a 1500.



RV dealerships aren't car dealerships. The RV dealer chooses which RVs he wants to sell and service. The RV manufacturers WANT those dealers to carry their lines of products. Realize there are a myriad of RVs out there and a dealer can pick and choose which lines they want to carry. The DEALER is obligated to do the warranty work on a unit he sells....no one else. And, warranty work is paid at a lower rate and the hours allotted for a given repair are generally on the low side....so, the dealership, which is probably flooded with all kinds of service requests, full pay, make ready and warranty, will want all the full pays he can get but will make room for HIS warranty work....sometimes with very extended delays. Good dealerships will take care of you, others not so much. Also, good dealerships will take in warranty on an RV of the kind they sell....but they don't have to, and many don't. Confusing and aggravating? Yes. Real life? Yes.



On the tires, look at the load rating at max pressure so we can figure out what they are.

When I asked about the leveling kit, the installer said the rear end would be left the same but the front end lifted to match the rear. I think it was like a 2” or maybe 2.5” front lift. Not sure if that changes anything, but thought I’d mention it to be as clear as possible. I guess I could have the lift taken out if I had to.

As for the tires and max rating, does the pic give you what you’re asking for? Click image for larger version

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Thanks,

Chris
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:18 PM   #20
Gegrad
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Chris, that sticker is a useful starting place, but on the actual tires themselves, in small raised lettering the tires will say "max load XXX lbs at XXX PSI". That is what others are looking for to best help with your tires. For example, I have the Michelin Defender LTXs on mine and they are rated for 2649 lbs at 44 psi. That is what we are looking for.
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