Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-20-2018, 05:32 AM   #21
jsmith948
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central San Joaguin Valley, CA
Posts: 2,117
Haven't heard anything good or bad about Countrywide tires. The OEM tires that come on most new trailers are built in China and most (some more than others) have developed poor reputations as to quality.
Our 2012 Cougar came with ST225-75-15D Power King Towmax tires. We made one trip to the northwest with these tires. After about 3000 miles, we noticed cracks in one of the sidewalls. Having read numerous threads about these "China bombs", we switched to E rated Maaxis 8008 tires and had great service from them. When they timed out, we switched to E rated Carlisle tires and had great service from them as well. We put about 23000 miles on the rig after getting rid of the Towmax and had zero issues.
Now, our new trailer came with Trailer King D rated tires. Have read numerous posts/threads regarding these tires and they appear to have a worse reputation than the Towmax. So, here we go again. Towed the trailer home from Tuscon and have made two short trips to the coast for a total of about 900 miles. Planning on a trip up through the northwest, glacier Park, Grand Tetons, SIL's house in Northeast Nevada and then back home. We will definitely replace the Trailer Kings with either Carlisle or Maaxis before the trip. I have to agree with what some others on here have stated. We have a $500 deductible on our insurance - why not spend the $500 on better tires and avoid the possibility of damaging the trailer. JMHO
__________________

Jack & Marty
2018 Laredo 298 SRL
2011 F-250 SB Crew Cab 4x4 6.7L
jsmith948 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 08:33 AM   #22
Carrottop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 329
Not to add to this debate but, to comment on the landfill piece, there have been many strides in tire recycling and not nearly as much ends up in land fills as before. There is still a lot that does but they are being used as a fuel for cement plants in the kilns and as filler in asphalt as an example. There are many other applications but not as mainstream yet.
Carrottop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 10:34 AM   #23
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrottop View Post
Not to add to this debate but, to comment on the landfill piece, there have been many strides in tire recycling and not nearly as much ends up in land fills as before. There is still a lot that does but they are being used as a fuel for cement plants in the kilns and as filler in asphalt as an example. There are many other applications but not as mainstream yet.
Up to 25% of new tire compounds come from recycled tires. Especially from foreign tire manufacturer's.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 03:49 PM   #24
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Special Trailer (ST) tire brand names. Why are so many unknown and so many others unpopular. There is a link there. The unknown might just be the unpopular with a new name and new start. Same mold, same mix, new name and maybe even a different USA wholesaler. The one thing on that mold they can’t change? Its plant location code.

Just one application of a popular tire being used at or near its maximum capability can quickly put it in the unpopular category.

Since this is about trailer tires let’s look at the method used to select them.

The trailer is built to maximum specifications. The GVWR is the maximum amount of weight the trailer is built to support, including all options and cargo.

The amount of weight the axles MUST support when added to the trailer manufacturer’s recommended tongue weight for that trailer MUST not be less than the trailer’s GVWR.

The tires fitted to the trailer’s axle (s) must have a load capacity equal to the certified GAWR of the axle they are fitted to. Here is where maximums and minimums get confusing, to some. The GAWR set by the vehicle manufacturer for each axle is the maximum total load allowed for that axle. Tires fitted to that axle must provide, at the minimum, a load capacity - via tire inflation - that supports the maximum loaded axle.

This is what a trailer manufacturer can do with that fitment. Install and certify the axles at 5080# GAWR each. Then fit two tires to each axle rated at 2540# of load capacity at 65 PSI.

If an owner has a situation anywhere near that fitment they need to direct their finger pointing in the direction of NHTSA, who allows that sort of fitment all the time.

When tires fitted to that situation fail early, they are normally replaced with others just like them but with a higher load range. Those replacements last much longer, the owner is happy and says what good tires they are as opposed to the OE tires, which in their own right, may be just as good but were a product of misapplication (?).

Another culprit of early trailer tire failure is abuse. Abuse by the delivery driver. Abuse by the dealer or seller. The Trailer sits around for a few months in the same spot never having its tires properly inflated. Seller decides to take it to a RV show. Shines the tires and sells the unit. New owner pops some tires on the way home with the new trailer. I would wonder about their inflation pressures for that trip.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 04:53 PM   #25
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrottop View Post
Not to add to this debate but, to comment on the landfill piece, there have been many strides in tire recycling and not nearly as much ends up in land fills as before. There is still a lot that does but they are being used as a fuel for cement plants in the kilns and as filler in asphalt as an example. There are many other applications but not as mainstream yet.

John,

Speaking of other applications for tires;

There is a place in NM, somewhere outside Nogal if I recall, where someone actually built the walls of their home with what appeared to be filled, old tires. Took be aback when I first saw it and had to back up to check it out....yep, walls of tires and the other half of the house was built into the mountainside.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 06:31 AM   #26
Carrottop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 329
That's cool. I will have to google it and try to find it. We frequently go down to MN and that is something I would want to check out.
Carrottop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 09:30 AM   #27
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,306
http://www.messagemedia.co/millelacs...a5d2434f5.html

Ask and you shall receive.....(Doesn't work with the IRS)
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 02:49 PM   #28
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Your 5er has a GVWR at 10,000#, have you considered upgrading to LT tires. This would require switching out to 16" rims, but far superior tire and carcass construction. Rated for less weight, but for much higher speeds, meaning to me at normal highway speeds much better tire.

Otherwise do what about 90% on here go with Maxies.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 06:45 PM   #29
Bolo4u
Senior Member
 
Bolo4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: NorCal
Posts: 386
Or stick with a GOOD quality, known brand (Maxxis, Sailun, Carlisle) ST tire, and not need to buy rims. If your existing rims are sufficient for the pressure of the next higher load rating than you currently have, that's an option you have too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
2019 Ram 3500 CTD, CC, Limited, DRW, 4x4, Aisin/4.10's
2017 Ram 3500 CTD CC DRW 4x4, 6.7/auto (Sold)
2016 Cougar 333MKS (sold to Camp Fire survivor)
Bolo4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 07:03 PM   #30
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Your 5er has a GVWR at 10,000#, have you considered upgrading to LT tires. This would require switching out to 16" rims, but far superior tire and carcass construction. Rated for less weight, but for much higher speeds, meaning to me at normal highway speeds much better tire.

Otherwise do what about 90% on here go with Maxies.

I have to chime in and say that there are MANY options with ST tires that are optimal for your situation that don't require buying new rims and don't require you to drive at excessive speeds to feel like you're taking advantage of those new LT tires.....with less weight rating.....???
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 07:59 PM   #31
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I have to chime in and say that there are MANY options with ST tires that are optimal for your situation that don't require buying new rims and don't require you to drive at excessive speeds to feel like you're taking advantage of those new LT tires.....with less weight rating.....???
I did not state I drive at excessive speed! I stated that the LT tires do have a lower weight rating, but in my case the tires are rated to carry that weight at 106 mph, this says to me at 60 to 65 mph I have carrying capacity reserve even if I am running at the tires max weight.

The majority of ST tires while having a 300# to 400# rating advantage, but only to speeds to 65 to 75 mph. In addition most don’t trust their ST tires to anywhere near their rated capacity. I am running my LT’s at 82% of rated capacity how many feel safe with running ST’s at 82% of capacity?
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 02:20 AM   #32
Tinner12002
Senior Member
 
Tinner12002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I have to chime in and say that there are MANY options with ST tires that are optimal for your situation that don't require buying new rims and don't require you to drive at excessive speeds to feel like you're taking advantage of those new LT tires.....with less weight rating.....???
There you go with that poking stick again! Lol!!
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
Tinner12002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 07:35 AM   #33
KHBama
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Pike Road
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
I'll stand by what I wrote, and yes I do think there have been members bullied on this tire issue. I have been on my own all my adult life and not about to change. I wish there was a better way to collect and report tire data...not in todays world.
yes... I asked a question about tires one day and got nothing useful from the 1st 10 posters, mostly "popcorn" posts and some smart a** remarks. Finally some posters chimed in with actual experience from the tires I asked about, some good some bad. That is all we can ask for when we post a question (especially people who are fairly newbies)
KHBama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 09:56 AM   #34
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
I did not state I drive at excessive speed! I stated that the LT tires do have a lower weight rating, but in my case the tires are rated to carry that weight at 106 mph, this says to me at 60 to 65 mph I have carrying capacity reserve even if I am running at the tires max weight.

The majority of ST tires while having a 300# to 400# rating advantage, but only to speeds to 65 to 75 mph. In addition most don’t trust their ST tires to anywhere near their rated capacity. I am running my LT’s at 82% of rated capacity how many feel safe with running ST’s at 82% of capacity?
I'm sorry if you misinterpreted. I didn't say you drove at excessive speed. In your original post (from memory) you said the LT's offered less load carrying ability but a higher speed rating....and in this case it would require new wheels. The only positive point out of that is that you can run at higher speeds, which isn't recommended pulling a TT. So that was what my comment alluded to. I wasn't trying to "poke" you.

As far as LTs giving a higher speed rating and lower load capacity my take is this (right or wrong); a higher speed rating refers to a tire's ability to "hold together" at speed from centrifugal force.....bonding to the carcass more or less and the compounds/designs required to do this. When driving a sports car or hot rod it's extremely important that the tread stay connected to the carcass of the tire at high speeds or if you're inclined to do a burn out - or cars/trucks running down the highway at higher speeds. The load capacity refers to a tire's ability to ....."carry/hold" a specific amount of weight - 2 different things to me. The ST then takes that "carrying" capacity and tries to complement it with a suitable speed rating that takes into account what the tire was designed for -carrying a large load. Therefore, IMO you get a stouter "load carrier" but not so much a sports car tire.

You may not agree with this but it's what I've come to think from everything I've read and observed about tires over the years.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 06:45 PM   #35
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
I did not state I drive at excessive speed! I stated that the LT tires do have a lower weight rating, but in my case the tires are rated to carry that weight at 106 mph, this says to me at 60 to 65 mph I have carrying capacity reserve even if I am running at the tires max weight.

The majority of ST tires while having a 300# to 400# rating advantage, but only to speeds to 65 to 75 mph. In addition most don’t trust their ST tires to anywhere near their rated capacity. I am running my LT’s at 82% of rated capacity how many feel safe with running ST’s at 82% of capacity?
You really need to clear something up here. Your trailer was most likely certified by Keystone to use standard LT tires. Isn’t that what’s on the trailer’s certification label?

Note: 1. A tire’s durability factor does not have anything to do with its ability to carry the maximum load listed on its sidewall. 2. The speed at which a tire can carry its maximum load is determined by its speed rating (letter), it’s a durability vs. capability thing.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 08:07 PM   #36
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
You really need to clear something up here. Your trailer was most likely certified by Keystone to use standard LT tires. Isn’t that what’s on the trailer’s certification label?

Note: 1. A tire’s durability factor does not have anything to do with its ability to carry the maximum load listed on its sidewall. 2. The speed at which a tire can carry its maximum load is determined by its speed rating (letter), it’s a durability vs. capability thing.
Well it is a 2005, no tire certification label, just a GVWR label inside a cabinet above the sink.
It came from the factory with the 235/85-16E’s per the build sheet I got from Keystone after purchase used.
This is a fact you should be aware of tire/payload sticker was not required until 2006.
The abuse an LT tire takes on a TV is far worse than it takes on a trailer. Many blame instances of curb scuffing, potholes, and hitting bad RR crossings for blowouts on ST tires, while I try to avoid these I don’t worry when it does happen.
As to weight capacity, seeing how my LTs have a 3,042# capacity good to 106 mph, I would believe that at 65 to 70 mph they are capable of supporting more than that at the lower speeds. I don’t expect them to support any more than their rated 3,042#, in fact they are only supporting 82% of that when fully loaded with 10,000# on the two axles.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 02:44 AM   #37
Tinner12002
Senior Member
 
Tinner12002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by KHBama View Post
yes... I asked a question about tires one day and got nothing useful from the 1st 10 posters, mostly "popcorn" posts and some smart a** remarks. Finally some posters chimed in with actual experience from the tires I asked about, some good some bad. That is all we can ask for when we post a question (especially people who are fairly newbies)
Well I have to say that yes, sometimes I will have a smart a** remark to make about an issue but I try not or at least I don't intend for it to be degrading to the poster. I think most that are familiar with my posts are also aware of that. You have to realize that sometimes a post comes through that has been beat to death time and time again on this forum and so many others so when another question comes up about the same topic, it gets a little humorous because we know where the post is going after seeing it, though that doesn't mean it may not a valid question. I know sometimes looking for previous posts on topics can be sometimes hard to find unless you post an exact word phrasing. The thing is, no one on here tries to or intends to devalue or degrade someones posts or questions to intentionally upset or poke fun as you say to the poster. We do try to seriously help everyone we can with issues they have on their RVs as we have the ability or knowledge to. Some on here are way more knowledgeable than others which is a good thing for the different posters asking questions but we all have nothing but good intentions in trying to help each other and newbies as well because that's why were here. Whew, with all that being said, I will still try and throw out a funny every now and again to get a smile or to try and lighten up a heated conversation, so sit back and enjoy what you read here, don't take things personal and we'll all have a great time reading and answering and educating ourselves with all the different posts and questions regardless of the number of times they've been asked!
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
Tinner12002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:52 AM   #38
CaptnJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Ocean Isle Beach
Posts: 1,431
These tire threads are great. They never end while they should be so easy. The could be over with sanity quickly. Sailun , Goodyear (G614 only), maxxis, or Carlisle. Those are proven. If people go up 1 LR with a proven product they should be fine. Note, we should appreciate those paying GY to test Endurance over the next 4 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________

2022.Montana 3855 BR
2019 F350 6.7 4X4 DRW
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 11:29 AM   #39
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Well it is a 2005, no tire certification label, just a GVWR label inside a cabinet above the sink.
It came from the factory with the 235/85-16E’s per the build sheet I got from Keystone after purchase used.
This is a fact you should be aware of tire/payload sticker was not required until 2006.
The payload sticker has nothing to do with tire size. That's one of the purposes of the vehicel certification label.
The abuse an LT tire takes on a TV is far worse than it takes on a trailer. That's mostly because they are on drive and steer axles and are designed for them. The only entity that has the authority to say it's an appropriate fitment on other vehicles is the vehicle manufacturer. Many blame instances of curb scuffing, potholes, and hitting bad RR crossings for blowouts on ST tires, while I try to avoid these I don’t worry when it does happen.

As to weight capacity, seeing how my LTs have a 3,042# capacity good to 106 mph, I would believe that at 65 to 70 mph they are capable of supporting more than that at the lower speeds. I don’t expect them to support any more than their rated 3,042#, in fact they are only supporting 82% of that when fully loaded with 10,000# on the two axles.
On the record, no one will officially say a LT or ST tire with a 3042# maximum load capacity really has a higher load capacity. However, there are two standards for measuring a tire's load capacity. For all ST & LT tires the Load Range formula is the official number. For all passenger tires it's the load index formula. So for the LT235/85R16 LRE tire the maximum load capacity is 3042#. If a load index number of 120 was used for that same tire it would be 3086#....It's just how the industry works.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.