Girard Tank-less ?

lifecamper · 03-09-2014, 02:55 PM

Would like to hear from anyone that has actually used or presently has a Girard tank-less hot water heater. I am about to spend the $529 to put one in my Springdale 5er. My present 6gal just gave up (explodes when lighting when it does light). I can replace it for 1/2 the cost of the Girard but think the tank-less is worth the price. What say you?

f6bits · 03-09-2014, 03:13 PM

I have a tankless at home and looked into the Girard for the trailer. There are only two quirks about the Girard:
1) EDIT: I could have sworn instructions said to turn it on to FULL, then add cold water to set the temperature. Now the instructions say DON'T USE COLD WATER. They instruct you to use a trickle for full blast heat, but crank it to FULL for its lowest temperature (about 90°). Neither of these options appeal to me.
2) It's Propane-only. Some people like the option of using electric only to conserve propane. This is a downer for those with full hookups and hate refilling their propane.

My gut instinct is to stick with what I have. It's simple, reliable, and easier to repair/replace. And it does the job.

**JRTJH** · 03-09-2014, 03:28 PM

We installed an auxiliary demand hot water heater in our house in Louisiana. It was about 70' from the hot water heater to the master bath and it was a long wait for hot water, so we installed a demand system in the master bath. The demand water heater has two significant disadvantages, one is listed above: it only activates when it senses water flow and to do that, the faucet needs to be turned on completely. That is frustrating when you're trying to wash your hands and must splash rather than slowly use water.

The other disadvantage, and I think the most frustrating one for me, is that the demand water heater heats water to a specific temperature above the input temperature. In the summer, when the outside water was 55F, the hot water in the shower was, let's say 75F above that, or 130F. In the winter when the input water temperature was 35F, you still got the same 75F temperature rise, but the output hot water was only 110F. That plays havoc on anti-scald faucets and automatic temperature faucets. It may be that we had an "early technology" model as it was installed in 2003, but if that's the same technology as today's demand heaters, I don't think I'd want one in an RV.

When you want to wash your hands, and one time it's the right temp, but next time, with a different water source, you scald your hands, it's not a system I would want my young kids to use. And, if you have to turn the hot water on full blast to get the heater to activate, it's not conducive to dry camping. Might be OK in a campground, but sort of defeats the ability to conserve water when not hooked to an endless supply of water.

PARAPTOR · 03-09-2014, 04:39 PM

For those who have say 6 gallon Hot Water Heaters in their trailers, demand more hot water, and are not willing to conserve, the on demand tank less system may be their only solution. I assume the hot water tank cavities in these trailers are sized to contain only that size tank and replacing it with say a 12 gallon tank is not possible. As John discussed in a previous Thread when Dry camping its a whole different world and you can not only address say hot water capacity without talking about fresh water and gray tank capacity.

Not sure the type controls on this RV model? At home I installed an on demand tank less system and if used properly it can be an energy saver and a convenience. The obvious advantage is that hot water capacity is not a function of tank size, therefore you have as much hot water as your water supply. With a tank system the user has to mix the hot and cold water to get the desired temperature. So lets see now, we use a certain amount of a water resource, then use an additional energy source to heat it up (say 120 degrees F) and then another water resource to cool it down to the desired temperature. Sound like a waste of a couple of resources. With the tank less on demand system, at home I dial in the temperature I want and use a single source of water which is heated by an another resource to exactly the required temperature. Just use the hot water faucet. Much better use of resources

Not sure this RV system in question has the same controls to realize these same savings.

And as discussed in a previous post a certain flow is required to get it ignited.

My 2 cents

WaltBennett · 03-09-2014, 04:54 PM

I've thought about switching to tankless several times in the past, but 1) couldn't justify the cost, and 2) realized how to get enough hot water to take a decent shower out of a 6 gal. tank one (have BOTH electric and propane on at the same time). Now we've a ten gallon heater and I leave the electric on all the time & turn on propane when LOML and I are taking turns - haven't run out of hot water yet either.

Festus2 · 03-09-2014, 05:12 PM

While the tank-less HW system might produce "endless quantities" of hot water with virtually little or no wait time, there is a price to pay for this convenience. First, these systems don't come cheaply - their higher initial cost may be prohibitive to many. Secondly, the vast majority of these systems only operate on propane so if you are in a campground with electrical hookups (which are "free" - sort of), you are paying for the propane to heat your water. Thirdly, the lack of temperature control may be a concern as was pointed out by John in his post.
While the tank-less, on demand system may be worth considering in a stick-house, its use in an RV does not seem to make much sense - practically or financially.

PARAPTOR · 03-09-2014, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

While the tank-less HW system might produce "endless quantities" of hot water with virtually no wait time, there is a price to pay for this convenience. First, these systems don't come cheaply - their higher initial cost may be prohibitive to many. Secondly, the vast majority of these systems only operate on propane so if you are in a campground with electrical hookups (which are "free" - sort of), you are forking out more money for propane. Thirdly, the lack of temperature control may be a concern as was pointed out by John in his post.
While the tank-less system may be worth considering in a stick-house, its use in an RV does not seem to make much sense - practically or financially.

Never heard of a stick house on demand tank less water heater without a temperature control. As discussed in my previous post on my home unit you enter you desired temperature which is an input to the controller in the unit. There is a temperature sensor on the water output side of the unit which is the second input to the controller Based on the difference of these two inputs an output of the controller regulates the gas valve accordingly (BTU). Basically you have a constant output water temperature based on desired temperature and a variable BTU heating rate. Therefore regardless of the input water temperature, output water temp is held to the desired temp with varying amount of BTU Heating. Sounds like the system you were referencing is a fixed BTU heating unit and output water temperature is based input water temp raised by a fixed BTU heating unit. I would not have one of these!!!!

Did quickly read some info on the Girard tank less system, definitely from what I read is not a constant water output temp system based on a desired temp. Their control does not set the desired temp but appears to set the BTU output of the burner. So under current conditions of input water temp, you get out your desired water temp. Say the next day you turn on the hot water and turn no controls the hot water temp will be a function of that set BTU output applied to the current temp of the input water. If I am reading that information correctly nothing like mine closer to what John had described.

Festus2 · 03-09-2014, 07:13 PM

PARaptor -
You may well be right in that there is some kind of temperature control but having that feature is not enough to convince me that an on-demand, tank-less water heater in an RV is the "way to go". For use in an RV, the tank-less water heater with its propane only and initial high cost just make it too restrictive and expensive to operate.

I can't comment on its energy and cost saving features for use in a stick home but obviously you have found it to your liking. If, for some reason I had to replace my existing electric/gas HW heater, I would not be tempted to install an on demand, tank-tank-less WH. But I am not counting on having to do that......

**JRTJH** · 03-09-2014, 07:41 PM

I can't find any of the information manuals for our old house. I think almost all of them were left with the buyers when we closed on the sale. Anyway, from memory, the system we had was electric, mounted on the wall in the master closet and was connected to 220VAC. It supplied the shower, both hot water faucets at the sink but not the whirlpool tub. It was plumbed in series with the tank hot water heater and once the water from the hot water heater got to the master bath, the "overtemp" cutout on the instant heater kicked in and it "coasted" from there until it needed to produce hot water again. It definitely didn't have an adjustable temperature control on it. We used it for showers and to get hot water to the sinks rapidly. Before we installed it we'd have cold water at the hot faucet for up to a minute or more.

Here is a link to a smaller version of what I think we had. It was a multiple point of use heater and in the winter, the water was "warm" and in the summer it was "hot". I see then newer ones have an adjustable thermostat on the face of the unit. That was not on ours.

http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/dhc.html

PARAPTOR · 03-09-2014, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

PARaptor -
You may well be right in that there is some kind of temperature control but having that feature is not enough to convince me that an on-demand, tank-less water heater in an RV is the "way to go". For use in an RV, the tank-less water heater with its propane only and initial high cost just make it too restrictive and expensive to operate.

I can't comment on its energy and cost saving features for use in a stick home but obviously you have found it to your liking. If, for some reason I had to replace my existing electric/gas HW heater, I would not be tempted to install an on demand, tank-tank-less WH. But I am not counting on having to do that......

I am with you, my Raptor has a 12 gallon Electric/Propane Hot Water Tank and I would not think of replacing it with anything but what I have now. WORKS FOR ME. I have never run out of hot water but have to admit when I thought I would I ran the propane and electric at the same time to get a faster recovery rate. As a veteran I have lived through water conservation as well as Food

People with smaller tanks and can not conserve may be looking for another option

dm1401 · 03-09-2014, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifecamper

Would like to hear from anyone that has actually used or presently has a Girard tank-less hot water heater. I am about to spend the $529 to put one in my Springdale 5er. My present 6gal just gave up (explodes when lighting when it does light). I can replace it for 1/2 the cost of the Girard but think the tank-less is worth the price. What say you?

Just a thought, from what you are describing, I would think your existing tank hasn't really crapped out, but has a faulty igniter / flame sensor or has a blocked flame out put port, I have had this issue twice over the years and both times it has been the igniter/flame sensor.

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