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Old 10-17-2016, 12:44 PM   #1
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Why should we buy a Raptor?

My wife and I just sold our Class A Tiffin MH because we want to carry the bike and have a detachable tow vehicle. We have three 5th wheel toy haulers in mind and are down to the final scrum over which it will be. We will be purchasing for next summer as winter will be here soon in Minnesota. We have seen all three, and like different aspects of each one. We have heard the dealer hype and want a fold down side deck so floor plans have been resolved. Now I want to hear from the owners of this specific model who know far more than dealers and have different motivations. Why should I spend my hard earned money on a Raptor?

Thanks for your input,

Tammie and Ken

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Old 10-17-2016, 03:02 PM   #2
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

Cause you want to take the bike? We've had good luck with our Keystone.

All kidding aside, the manufacturers all use the same stuff, and they're all pretty much the same. Pick the floor plan that works best for you, buy a Condor "Pit Stop" Wheel Chock, and enjoy your time away!

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Old 10-17-2016, 03:48 PM   #3
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

Ken, we have had our Raptor for a few years now. Once we rid ourselves of "China bombs" for tires that the rig came with our problems have been minor. One converter and two water heater thermostats about covers our problems. And I suppose I better add that neither is built by Keystone. It was 21 degrees last night and we heated the living and bedroom/bathroom area totally with one electric heater. What more can I say?
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:20 PM   #4
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

My wife and I just bought a 2017 Fuzion 414 which is basically a Raptor with a different floorplan and perhaps different standard features and different available options. Essentially the same construction. We did a lot of research ourselves then went to the RV show in Hershey PA to see all the TH's we could see in 3 days. It boiled down to Raptor, Fuzion, and Grand Designs Momentum. It was the floorplan that was the deciding factor between these manufacturers. Heartland Cyclone/Road Warrior also was in contention. Forest River and Jayco products just didn't cut it for us. So,,,the reason we bought a Fuzion. You can use the same mentality for a Raptor.
1. Simple, straightforward construction. The interior doors are solid core. The furniture is the best out there until you get into the uber high end stuff.
2. The slides are cable operated on the Fuzion. It may sound unsophisticated because it is. Thats the point. Less to go wrong.
3. Fit and finish is questionable across the industry. This line appeared to be better than most in initial quality. (so far, so good).
4. It came with the appliances we wanted. We wanted a convection microwave, Suburban range, and a Samsung domestic fridge. AT first I wanted a Norcold 18Cu.Ft. dual sided model, but too many reported issues.
5. I wanted a Mor-Ride pin box, CRE-3000 suspension, and G rated tires. The Fuzion has all of that and a Mor-Ride deck fence and stairs at the main entrance of the RV. The tires are Sailun S637 G rated tires. All work good so far. The RV rides and handles with ease.
6. I wanted 5000 pound tie downs in the toy box. These are hard welded to the frame. Some brands look cheesy.
7. I demanded a comfortable living area that has a touch of luxury and comfort with overall feeling of quality. A lot of toy haulers make me feel like the living room and kitchen is a big compromise in comfort. Too much emphasis on "man cave". And no comfortable places to watch TV without craning your head. The 414 has an awesome layout. One large couch "ain't" doing it for me. Sitting 5 people abreast is no fun. Sorry. Ours has 2 smaller couches that are quite comfortable and well built.
8. We both wanted a kitchen big enough to actually cook in and appliances good enough to cook with. The 414 has it all. And we have a real pantry.
9. We wanted a decent sized master bathroom/bedroom along with a half bath for the toy box for guests. We got that too.
The price for all this other than the check we had to write? Its big. 43' long. Which is longer than what I wanted to lug around. I really wanted to keep it under 40'. Unfortunately the only models out there that fit the bill under 40' were the Fuzion 371, Raptor 355TS, and the Grand Designs Momentum 350M (very nice RV), but my wife won out on the battle for real estate. I would have been happy with any of those models. They are all 2 axle models which is fine and may add to a bit of maneuverability alone with being shorter, but they are also easier to gross out in weight. Once you load a toy or 2 in the back, you don't have much payload left before those axles are maxed out. The 3rd axle gives a lot more headroom, at the expense of the RV weighing 1800 pounds more with the extra length and running gear.
The RV comes with the Jensen In Command control panel to control lighting, slides, and the generator. We also have the IPhone Apps on our phones that allow us to do the same with those devices. Its nice to extend the slides from outside the RV when in tight quarters.
I failed to mention the Cummins Onan 5500 watt generator was a must have as well as a 3rd zone air conditioner/heat in the toy box. Ours came with that and a heat pump just for the toy box. 2 small A/C ducts just doesn't cut it. Sorry. I don't buy it for one minute. Not when its 95 degrees out. 2 A/C's will barely keep up in the main part of the RV.

We live in Maine and traveled to Hersey for the show as mentioned. We made a deal over the phone with the dealer we met at the show and travelled back to Pittsburgh area to make the deal and come home with our new rig. We towed 1100 miles and took 4 days and nights to do it, staying in campgrounds so we could relax and become familiar with our new rig and shake out any bugs. So far the only fault has been a loose piece of ceiling trim that I re-tacked up with a sheetrock nail. Everything works fine on it. It tows very well albeit its big and heavy. I tow with a 2016 Ram 3500 CTD dually and that truck works fine. I wouldn't do it with any less. the pin weight mandates a DRW truck. Gas engine,,,,forget it. Diesel all the way. I've gotten used to the length for the most part. I pre-plan my route first before I set out. I backs up very nicely. With 3 axles, I am careful not to turn too quickly backing up. I feel the extra capacity of the 3rd axle is worth it, but you have to weigh that value for your own needs. Just make sure you get good rubber. You'll need it. I hope this answers your questions. Yes, I would do it all over again. Just choose the floorplan that fits your needs. If I was ordering, I would spring for full body paint. Its expensive, but it looks great and less prone to fade. Much less.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:08 AM   #5
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

Thank you Schmeg. That's the sort of reply to the post that I'd hoped we'd receive. Very informative and some excellent points made.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:27 PM   #6
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

I own a Raptor TH with no experience in other brands. The finish work, flimsy outside comparment doors on the Raptor and small details are horrible so if they are highly respected, I hate to see the others!!

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Old 10-20-2016, 07:29 AM   #7
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

fish...just curious what you owned prior? I am in the entry line of the 5th wheel toy haulers and find it to be similar quality as its competitors, I have no issues with what I have.

I could certainly understand your comments if you came form a $500k diesel pusher.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:15 PM   #8
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

For us it came down to price, we had four different campers on our list. When the one we bought came available we jumped on it, if the price hadn't been so good we might still be looking.

The original owner bought it after leaving Alaska with the intention of living full time in Fl, his wife didn't like it and wanted to go back to Alaska. So instead of towing it back to Alaska they sold it real cheap and even delivered it to us from Fl to NC. I had it gone over before we paid for because to price was so low.

So far we changed the tires which I would recommend, switched the OEM king for a sleep number and added a washer/dryer in the garage because we spend most of the summer in the camper.

Other than that it's been perfect!
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:01 PM   #9
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jeep View Post
fish...just curious what you owned prior? I am in the entry line of the 5th wheel toy haulers and find it to be similar quality as its competitors, I have no issues with what I have.

I could certainly understand your comments if you came form a $500k diesel pusher.
Came from nothing and bought the Raptor. It is not built very well. I have to add screws here and there, trim inside falls off. The details are terrible.

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Old 10-24-2016, 07:12 PM   #10
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

I can tell you there will be some problems . It all boils down to how competant the service department is. They all like to sell and a lot of dealers won't hire service technicians. Do some research about your dealer . I wished I had that advice when purchasing my toyhuler. There heavy in the front you really need a 1 ton to stay in specs the door sticker.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:47 PM   #11
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

Okay, pop the corn, fill your glass and sit back....

As a technition that PDI's, repairs and does walk throughs let me give you my thoughts. Why buy a Raptor? Why buy a Ford Focus vs. a Chevy Cruze or Toyota Prius?

Personal choice. If you set a price point and then go looking, all the available units will be about the same, with maybe one having a few more staples or screws than another. In an effort to please everybody, ALL the manufacturers of RV's are trying to lose weight, increase carrying capacity, and add amenities while holding to an affordable price. I've worked on $15,000 toyaulers and $125,000 toy haulers. Was the 100K a "better" unit? It was bigger, more fresh water 3 A/C's bigger gen and refer. The walls were the same material and I didn't notice any extra staples. Does that make it better? You decide.

Pretty much EVERY unit I have PDI'd has had some issues. Some minor, like trim falling off, others major like screws run into tanks when the floor was installed. Trick is finding them at PDI. Some dealerships don't do a proper PDI and even don't do any warranty work on the unit they just sold you. There isn't any money to be made on warranty work and NO, PDI IS NOT PAID BY THE FACTORY. If the tech works in a flat rate shop, he/she is under the gun to finish in allotted time.

Then we have customer expectations. Many want to pay for a Pinto but own a Town Car. True, depending on where you live and earn your money, $20,000 can be a drop in the bucket or a significant portion of your yearly income. When you test drive that Pinto, you had expectations and the same applied when you drove that Town Car.

Where is the Raptor in the large scale? We don't carry them so I'm not aware of their price range, but I will say, if you take the average price of the Raptor YOU LIKE, and then using that criteria, go looking at other brands you'll find them all to be about the same in quality, crafmanship and amenities.

Like I said before they all have issues and if the dealership does their due diligence, the $15,000 toy hauler can be just as "nice" as the $40,000 one in respect to quality and craftsmanship.

Hopefully I haven't bored or confused you, go shopping and find the toy hauler that grabs YOU! Then make sure the dealer will service your unit. Don't take delivery until YOUR happy, and don't DEMAND service when something breaks, because something WILL break, calm respectful dialog goes a LONG way.

If I left anything out, I apologize, feel free to PM me and we can discuss any particular point.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:16 PM   #12
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

I agree with much of Chuckster's sentiments. The quality of craftsmanship and construction dynamics of trailers are relatively similar across many brands of the same price point. Materials are equivalent and build quality is redundant. Obviously, comparing a $100K Airstream to a $20K ultralite Bullet is apples and oranges. Comparing a $60K Keystone Raptor to a $60K Dutchman Voltage maybe just apples and apples (or different trim). As I've heard many times over in the short time I've been RV'ing, "pick the floor plan" first. That's what we did. Worked out well so far.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:36 AM   #13
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Re: Why should we buy a Raptor?

We compared a 90k Raptor to those others in the price range and they didnt have the floor plan nor the larger appliances that we liked in the Raptor and most only had 10-11ft garages. So we bought the Raptor.

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