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03-25-2018, 07:32 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Fifth wheel king pin question
Our Sprinter came equipped with a LCI 1116 king pin. During our first tow, which was run with minimum loading, I felt that there was an excessive amount of jarring and movement transfer to the TV. The jarring and movement transfer was both vertical and horizontal in nature. My opinion is that the rigid king pin is the most likely cause. We are using a Reese puck adapter, slider and hitch. The hitch is capable of both left-right and fore-aft limited rotation. Would I have a better ride by changing out to a cushioned king pin? Thanks in advance!
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-25-2018, 07:39 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,238
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Pin box is just one factor in "chucking". You have wheel base of TV, Airbags, Suspension, Weight on king pin as a few. That said I did change my rigid to an LCI "Trail air" and noticed a big difference. ANYTHING IMO is better than the rigid king pin.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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03-25-2018, 08:21 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Thank you for the quick reply chuckster57!
The Ram is stock with the exceptions of the OEM towing mirrors and the Voyager proportional brake controller.
My initial thought was since we were running with a light load (< 1/2 tank fresh water and little clothing), that the king pin weight was lighter than it normally would be fully loaded because the weight aft of the axles was relatively normal. We do have a second run planned in a few weeks that we will run with full water load to test the theory out. I keep a journal about the runs initially until things get ironed out or become normal for the rig.
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-25-2018, 10:05 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Oswego
Posts: 604
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Full water tank may make it worse if the tank is located in the rear of the fifth wheel - could take weight off the pin (water is about 8#/gal). Low pin weight can cause the issue.
Air bags can make an improvement - will not eliminate all chucking. I run about 45 psig in the air bags.
Good to check how level the fifth wheel when towing - "nose high".
__________________
RV - 2017 Avalanche 320RS
TV - 2011 Chevy Silverado 3500HD LTZ CCLB Duramax SRW 4X4
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03-25-2018, 10:13 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: NorCal
Posts: 386
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Adding your "normal" camping cargo to the basement can add some pin weight and may help with the chucking. As Norske indicated, if the trailer is nose high, it may be part of why you're feeling it more. The pin on our Cougar 333MKS is rigid and I run a cushion disk in between the pin plate and hitch plate. It's a generally smooth ride. Also, if there isn't a lot of cushioning built into the hitch, some on the chucking may be getting amplified through the hitch/frame and into your truck frame.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
2019 Ram 3500 CTD, CC, Limited, DRW, 4x4, Aisin/4.10's
2017 Ram 3500 CTD CC DRW 4x4, 6.7/auto (Sold)
2016 Cougar 333MKS (sold to Camp Fire survivor)
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03-25-2018, 01:36 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or
Posts: 172
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It's too much 5th wheel for your truck. 39' and 12,000? lbs with 2600+ on the pin? 39' at that weight will jerk your truck all the time regardless of hitch. Have you weighed you truck and 5er?
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03-25-2018, 01:55 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goducks
It's too much 5th wheel for your truck. 39' and 12,000? lbs with 2600+ on the pin? 39' at that weight will jerk your truck all the time regardless of hitch. Have you weighed you truck and 5er?
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Key specifications - 3531FWDEN
Shipping Weight 10,750
Carrying Capacity 3,250
GVWR 14,000
Hitch 2,155
Length 39' 0"
Height 12' 6"
Well the dry weight isn't too bad, the GVWR is big, but so is the CCC at 3,250, if loaded with 2,000# of STUFF then 12,750, might be within specs of a 2500 Hemi. dry pin is just over 20%, with our unit we need 22% for a smooth ride. So 22% of 12,750# would be 2,850. you will be working to stay under the 10,000# GVWR of the TV.
Well there are far more issues that cause chucking;
Is 5er level?
Do you have at least 20% to 25% pin weight?
Does the TV have very good shocks?
Does the 5er have shocks?
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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03-25-2018, 03:55 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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If you stay lightly loaded and near empty tanks all the numbers should be good. Only a trip over the scales will tell. Do you have a tow/haul mode? Use it if you do. Set the Ram brake controller to Heavy Electric about 8 or 9 to start with. Many of us tow with the 4 generation Ram and the 6.4 or 6.7 CTD and do well. Yes a cushioned pin box will smooth things out, MORryde is a popular option. Also what kind of suspension do you have on the trailer? Any of the rubber cushioned center pivots will help. One last thing of interest, those of us with the 6.7CTD are almost 1000 lbs heavier to start with which relates to a different feel in how the load (5ft wheel) pushes the TV around.
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03-26-2018, 12:47 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,899
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Had an old 25 foot fiver that had a rigid pin box. It beat us up on every rough road and every bridge we towed on. Got the almost 40 foot Montana that came with the MorRyde pin box, and the ride is great. You still experience a little chucking on extreme spots, but we have never had the ride so bad that it felt like you were losing control. Get a MorRyde or a Trailair or some other cushioned pin box. Unless the trailer came with shocks, you likely will not get much improvement trying to add them, as there usually isn't enough room to add them so they are fairly vertical to get the benefit from them.
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Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
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03-26-2018, 02:18 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
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Here is what I had on another RV and it also came factory on my new one, seemed to help quite a bit on both.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROTO-FLEX-1...ZaBGpY&vxp=mtr
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2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
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03-26-2018, 05:12 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Thanks to all for the concern about being overloaded. The 2015 Ram manual addendum stated that it has a 15,610 tow capacity with 3,086 haul capacity.
The water tanks are between the king pin and the axles. The axles have a MORryde bushing device that I'm still researching.
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-26-2018, 08:12 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Mole
Thanks to all for the concern about being overloaded. The 2015 Ram manual addendum stated that it has a 15,610 tow capacity with 3,086 haul capacity.
The water tanks are between the king pin and the axles. The axles have a MORryde bushing device that I'm still researching.
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You do understand that those two numbers are best case numbers. So the only work for lightest Ram Hemi HD 2500.
Your payload number is on the yellow tire loading tag on the drivers door post.
Keep in mind part of the issue you are having with ride, is likely due to a lite pin, to correct it you need to increase your pin weight.
You stated that your FW is forward of the axles, fill it full and see if the tow is better.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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03-27-2018, 05:04 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
You do understand that those two numbers are best case numbers. So the only work for lightest Ram Hemi HD 2500.
Your payload number is on the yellow tire loading tag on the drivers door post.
Keep in mind part of the issue you are having with ride, is likely due to a lite pin, to correct it you need to increase your pin weight.
You stated that your FW is forward of the axles, fill it full and see if the tow is better.
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Yes, the Tradesman model. Which is what I own and why there was a special insert to my owners manual for this vehicle.
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-27-2018, 05:22 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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With all due respect the 4 generation Ram trucks are tested and certified to the SAE J2807 towing standards. If you do not understand them please study them before posting incorrect data as this confuses others. The OP's vehicle has the capabilities he stated in his post.
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03-27-2018, 06:32 AM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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Frank,
Chrysler, just like Ford and GM, advertise "BS" in their charts. You posted a link to the RAM towing charts and speak of "the gospel" (truth ????) about SAE J2807 towing standards. Those standards, just like everything before them, is only as good as the documentation presented to the consumer.
Examples from the chart you posted:
LINE 1 (first truck in the chart):
GVW: 9000 PAYLOAD: 2680 GCWR: 18300 MAX TLR: 11510
When doing the math, if the truck is at GVW, with a GCWR of 18300, the max trailer weight is 9300, not 11510.
LINE 5 (first diesel in the chart):
GVW: 10000 PAYLOAD: 2630 GCWR: 24300 MAX TLR: 16450
Doing the math on this one, if the truck is at GVW, with a GCWR of 24300, the max trailer weight is 14300, not 16450.
Every truck listed is "advertised in the Chrysler chart" well above the "true max towing rating".... Chrysler's "sleight of hand" is that they deduct the payload from the trailer rating. They do this by "SAE certification" that excludes the payload from the max trailer rating.
There is NO WAY to tow a trailer without having "payload" exerted on the truck. So, is it "false advertising" or is it "using different conditions to maximize the chart"???
The OP's truck, just like every other truck, has optional equipment (not included in the chart "base model" that will decrease the "maximum rating" that is depicted in the chart. Adding spray in bed liner, running boards, electric windows, floor mats, etc, all add weight to the "base model truck" and decrease the payload, which also decreases the max trailer rating, (IF YOU FOLLOW THE GCWR) from the maximum rig weight.....
Every manufacturer reflects their advertising with similar charts, every manufacturer "lies" by advertising the maximum trailer rating with an empty truck, a condition that simply can't be accomplished. Consumers really need to actually look at the chart and analyze it, not just pick a number and expect that it will "stand on its merit" as an individual rating. All of the ratings matter and all of the ratings affect each of the other ratings.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-27-2018, 06:50 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Requesting the admin to review or lock thread.
Dear Admin:
Seeing that very few are looking at the original question I had and are jumping, heck, using an aircraft carrier's steam catapult to launch themselves to the foregone conclusion that I can not read nor comprehend my vehicle specifications and that both the vehicle manufacturer and the SAE are liars, I am humbly requesting that this thread be reviewed and or locked.
I realize that most mean well but this is starting to sound like a political discussion about gun control in which no one asks a question but by the heavens above they sure do know the answer to your problem and you are the center of the problem.
Thanks in advance.
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-27-2018, 07:06 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Pike Road
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Mole
Dear Admin:
Seeing that very few are looking at the original question I had and are jumping, heck, using an aircraft carrier's steam catapult to launch themselves to the foregone conclusion that I can not read nor comprehend my vehicle specifications and that both the vehicle manufacturer and the SAE are liars, I am humbly requesting that this thread be reviewed and or locked.
I realize that most mean well but this is starting to sound like a political discussion about gun control in which no one asks a question but by the heavens above they sure do know the answer to your problem and you are the center of the problem.
Thanks in advance.
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haha it never fails whenever weight is brought up, getting ridiculous. On another note, how much does the hitch itself come into play on chucking? I have a pro series 16k hitch now but I'm seriously looking at the Andersen ultimate hitch-rail version. Heard very good things about the andersen
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03-27-2018, 07:16 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Midlands of South Carolina
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHBama
haha it never fails whenever weight is brought up, getting ridiculous. On another note, how much does the hitch itself come into play on chucking? I have a pro series 16k hitch now but I'm seriously looking at the Andersen ultimate hitch-rail version. Heard very good things about the andersen
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At this time we are using Reese: Puck adapter (which was installed very loosely and has been corrected), square tube slider and 16K hitch. The hitch does have limited left/right and fore/aft mobility but no cushioning. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that, now I'm afraid that the Reese company is full of liars as well.
__________________
Bill & Anne, Athena (cat), Jada (pup), and Cupcake (cat)
Retired Navy CPO, Vollie Firefighter and Industrial Maintenance Specialist
Wilson III: 2015 Ram Tradesman 2500 6.4l CC 4x4 SB
the gypsy, Belle III: 2018 Sprinter Limited 3531 FWDEN
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03-27-2018, 07:24 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 375
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We had two Reese hitches in a previous truck and both were terrible with chucking. Newer truck has the Curt puck system; pulling the same fiver with Morryde hitch. Absolutely no chucking with the new setup. My WAG: the problem is the Reese.
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03-27-2018, 07:26 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Pike Road
Posts: 130
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exact same hitch I have but the lower end Reese, Pro series version. I get alot of chucking also with my 5er.
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