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05-02-2016, 10:11 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7
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Cougar 336bhs - Outdoor Kitchen Sink Clogs
Hello new Keystone family! We have had several Heartland North Trail TTs with outdoor kitchens and this was a MUST on our list when we chose our Cougar 5th wheel. However, we have a bit of a problem...
We will use our outdoor sink once or twice and it is backed up and will not drain! My husband will pull the gray tank lever towards the rear of the unit and it will release the sink to drain. So, does this sink not go into the gray tank directly? Can anyone tell us what is going on here?
TIA
Todd and Jamie Felts
(still working on signature!)
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05-02-2016, 10:13 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
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welcome to the club. there is a huge 336bhs group here and a post with tons of comments in this forum. Bad news for you though on the drain, its not plugged, it doesn't have a grey tank. it directly trains to the rear tube at the back. so if you want to use it, you need to be hooked up or just drain it to the ground. Many have sworn it has a tank. But its just straight piped to the outside.
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2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
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05-02-2016, 10:15 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
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check out this thread for a ton of great info on your model:
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23346
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
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05-02-2016, 10:37 AM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7
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Thank you, I have read through that thread and it had so much conflicting info, I thought I would ask separately.
We are still trying to figure out the mechanics of this. Does it just go to the extended part of the tube that has the cap (so if we use it - there will always be waste water in the tube to connect the sewer hose to drain the galley tank?) or do we have to pull the gray tank lever for it to drain and then we are draining our galley tank as well (which doesn't make sense if it doesn't go into the gray tank).
ARRGGHHHH!!!! It just doesn't make sense to either of us.
__________________
Todd and Jamie Felts
Nolan (son) and Ella (daughter)
Bailey (Labradoodle) and Nate (German Short Haired Pointer)
2012 F250
2016 Cougar 336BHS
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05-02-2016, 11:16 AM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4
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We brought ours right back to the dealer thinking there was something wrong and that it was clogged! But nope, unfortunately that's how its configured. Most of the places we go camping are dry and I really loved the idea of having an outdoor kitchen so we'll need to come up with a clever solution. Besides that, where they placed the usb charging station (next to the master bed), and where they placed the pendant light switches over the island, we are loving our 336! The layout really fits our family!
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05-02-2016, 11:19 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieTFelts
Thank you, I have read through that thread and it had so much conflicting info, I thought I would ask separately.
We are still trying to figure out the mechanics of this. Does it just go to the extended part of the tube that has the cap (so if we use it - there will always be waste water in the tube to connect the sewer hose to drain the galley tank?) or do we have to pull the gray tank lever for it to drain and then we are draining our galley tank as well (which doesn't make sense if it doesn't go into the gray tank).
ARRGGHHHH!!!! It just doesn't make sense to either of us.
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The release valuve on the tube that is on the rear piple literally just releases the five or so cups of water that you push down the sink when using it before it starts to back up. so either pull it to drain straight to the ground or hook up a tube to it and put it down a rv dump location. I just run a tube into the bushes and water some of the plants nearby if boondocking. As far as I can tell it holds about 1-2 gallons tops.
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
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05-02-2016, 12:15 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North East Pennsylvania
Posts: 96
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The galley tank is hidden between the slides and about 1/4 the way in under the camper. That's how you drain the galley sink. It's a smaller diameter pipe. Another bad design in the drain dept. The rearmost drain and valve is for your outside kitchen. One of my camping pals has a Grand Designs Reflection similar layout to ours and his is the same silly set up. Grand Design however relocated the galley drain that's buried underneath to the docking station where it should be. So no tank just a pipe strait to the sink. It only holds what the pipe holds. Not much. My dealer explained that according to RIVA this is acceptable standard and that's why manufactures do it. Many campers in tents and pupups have sinks that just drain on the ground. So don't feel bad about it. We have one of those sewer caps to garden connections and just run a hose into the bushes or something if it's an issue.
__________________
]2013 Chevy 2500 HD 6.6L 💨💨
2016 Cougar 336
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05-02-2016, 02:36 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
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One of our members here named Weber has pulled the underbelly skin back on the trailer and says there is room to mount a tank back there and plans on doing it. He may be a good guy to reach out to.
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
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05-03-2016, 08:23 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
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I certainly do not know about laws in your area, just mine. Here it is illegal to dump onto the ground. It is a 125 ticket, if the officer wants to write it. Yea even water from a sink pipe. You can get a portable tote tank to use the sink when not hooked up to a sewer.
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2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
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05-03-2016, 09:45 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North East Pennsylvania
Posts: 96
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We don't really camp without hook ups so I didn't see it being an issue for us. For the few times we do I will use it sparingly and a garden hose to a bush will do for me. I'd just assume not use the sink in those situations before I deal with the blue tank hassle if that what it came down to. I'd be interested in a thread on adding a small tank back there also. That would solve the problem. Just looked into it a little and "Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) found at 8365.1-1 (3) generally excludes “wash water” from prohibition against draining or dumping". Certainly local laws and campground regulations most likely see it differently in many situations. Another point of argument would be that when we were looking at new trailers many now have a smaller outside kitchen and we saw more than a few that had just tubs in the outside kitchen sink with no drain. Likely ment to just wash dishes and be dumped out. Clearly the industry is producing these units based on a standard and this practice is acceptable. It should be better advertised so that the consumer can make the decision if this is a system that will work for them. But that falls under the "caveat emptor" clause. From what we saw looking at new campers this winter, outside kitchens without drainage or without a holding tank is becoming more common.
__________________
]2013 Chevy 2500 HD 6.6L 💨💨
2016 Cougar 336
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05-03-2016, 12:18 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia
I certainly do not know about laws in your area, just mine. Here it is illegal to dump onto the ground. It is a 125 ticket, if the officer wants to write it. Yea even water from a sink pipe. You can get a portable tote tank to use the sink when not hooked up to a sewer.
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Don't forget to collect all the water from your outside shower too! LOL.
I mean I get the point, but when we are talking pure water here I don't think anybody is going to get too excited. Now let me be clear I do not condone dropping nasty grey water. Some judgement is involved here and we all need to look out for the environment.
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
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05-03-2016, 04:50 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,605
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Fortunately in my rig, the outside kitchen sink drains to galley grey tank. A friend of mine has a model like yours and he simply places a five gallon pail under the opening then dumps pail when full. It doesn't fill quickly as the sink is used mostly for quick rinses and washing hands. The pail is the politically correct way to dispose of Grey water.
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05-04-2016, 05:13 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Churubusco, IN
Posts: 8
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I have the same camper and was also confused on the drain of the outdoor sink. Our dealer told us without a doubt it goes to tank...wrong! A probable explanation of why the built it this way is that the galley tank is probably too high to drain the outdoor sink into it. You would end up with galley water eventually coming out the outdoor sink.
My immediate solution was to put a 5 gallon bucket under the drain to collect outdoor sink water. That fact that the bucket has several holes drilled into the bottom....well, it at least looks good.
I've thought of a couple longer term solutions: As mentioned previously, there is probably room to put a 7-10 tank somewhere behind the rear axle. I haven't opened the bottom to take a look yet. I also though about getting one of those little condensate pumps that are used for air conditioners. Think of it as a mini lift station to pump the water up into the top of the galley tank. So far we typically only use that sink to wash hands, and rinse jalapenos just prior to grilling, so the water is mostly just water.
Agree with some of the other posts, the ceiling and pendant light switch location doesn't make much sense and some have already installed a wall switch in series with the panel switches. USB charging port location, also strange. I was thinking of getting a couple of outlets that have USB ports integral to them and placing them at various locations in the kitchen, etc.
And my final jeer, why on earth is that galley tank drain valve located practically mid-way underneath the camper???
Other than that, we absolutely LOVE the camper.
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05-05-2016, 04:52 AM
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#14
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7
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Thanks everybody! I have spent several phone calls and emails with Keystone and they were a big help and not so much on other topics, but hey, I've gotten my answer at this point.
I have hand drawn a schematic since they do not share with the retail public (WTH, I bought it and want to know how it's set up but whatever).
Here's the gist and it's on the attachment as well...
1. Black tank, Grey #1 and Grey #2 all drain to stub out below the convenience center. Black tank and Grey #1 pull valves are in the convenience center. Grey #2 pull valve is under the coach tee’d into the stub out pipe.
2. The outdoor kitchen sink is straight piped to behind the rear tire. There is a pull valve here for this only. This pipe will hold approximately 2 gallons of water before the sink back ups.
If anyone still has questions, let me know - we are now well versed in the plumbing of our new rig!
__________________
Todd and Jamie Felts
Nolan (son) and Ella (daughter)
Bailey (Labradoodle) and Nate (German Short Haired Pointer)
2012 F250
2016 Cougar 336BHS
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05-27-2020, 08:41 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
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Anybody have a 2015 336BHS with the same issue?
I know this is an old post but I just found this and am having the same issue.
My 2015 Cougar 336BHS outdoor kitchen sink will not drain. I just bought the unit over the winter from a private seller and forgot to even ask about this. The diagram someone posted was very helpful but I have no pull valve underneath at the pipe for the drain out. I don't know if there was a change in manufacturing between 2015 and 2016 and they added a pull valve or if mine just fell off. Otherwise the diagram is exactly identical to mine.
I also cannot seem to find anything in that area underneath that wound indicated a pull valve was ever even there.
Any help from anybody that has a 2015 of this model would be extremely helpful. At the least it would eliminate other possibilites as to why I cannot get this to drain.
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