Half Ton Towing

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by raycan2

...The Eco Boost pulls a lot better and more comfort it was well under wt at the box
...

Yup, there's no problem towing with the Ecoboost. It has better low-end torque than Ford's 6.2L V8. And there's usually not a problem with the F150's Tow Capacity either.

The problem is with the truck's payload and rear axle rating. People that did not get the HD payload option are almost always over their truck's limits, either GVWR or rear GAWR or both when hauling a 5er.

The F150 with HD payload option, is really a different truck with beefed up frame, suspension, 7 lug axle & wheels, and LT tires.

For us to move up to a light-weight 5er, I would want at least a 2500# payload with the HD Payload Option. And the closer to 3000# payload the better.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by BruLaz

Yup, there's no problem towing with the Ecoboost. It has better low-end torque than Ford's 6.2L V8. And there's usually not a problem with the F150's Tow Capacity either.

The problem is with the truck's payload and rear axle rating. People that did not get the HD payload option are almost always over their truck's limits, either GVWR or rear GAWR or both when hauling a 5er.

The F150 with HD payload option, is really a different truck with beefed up frame, suspension, 7 lug axle & wheels, and LT tires.

For us to move up to a light-weight 5er, I would want at least a 2500# payload with the HD Payload Option. And the closer to 3000# payload the better.

And therein lies the problem. The base stripped down model might get there but after all the package accessories and large fuel tank the final numbet is less than 2K even with the H/D package.
Heck, my stripped down XL F250 with 10K option only has 2600 and some of the King Ranches only hit the high teens

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by Javi

And therein lies the problem. The base stripped down model might get there but after all the package accessories and large fuel tank the final numbet is less than 2K even with the H/D package.
Heck, my stripped down XL F250 with 10K option only has 2600 and some of the King Ranches only hit the high teens

How did you get a "stripped down XL F250" with only 2600# payload? I just looked at a very nice 2013 F250 4x2 XLT SCab on the lot today that was 3800# right on the door. Very close to the F250 brochure's estimate of 3860# for that wheelbase/engine/cab.

As for F150's, the same is true. Many XLT's are close to the posted payloads in the brochure, and I wouldn't call them stripped down. My FX2's payload was only 25# less than what the brochure listed, and that was because of the 20" wheels. The fancy electronic options are pretty much weightless.

It's moon-roofs, big wheels, tailgate steps, bed liners and stuff like that. With the Lariat, King Ranch and above models, well, a lot of that heavy stuff comes standard, and it definitely weighs them down.

Still, an F150 4x4 SCrew with HD Payload can only have a max 2310# payload. Maybe not enough IMHO. Same with the 4x4 Scab too. But a 4x4 RCab with 8' bed (145", the shortest wheelbase that you can get the HD payload option on, and my favourite) is 2810#. Or, all the 4x2's are over 2500#. The 4x2 RCab is 3100#.

So, yes, if you want a 4x4 SCrew, and/or a King Ranch with all the goodies, you should probably "upscale" to an F250. I wouldn't necessarily call it an "upgrade" though ...

Oh, another thing about F250's: there's a lot more of them around compared to the F150HD. You usually have to order in the F150 with the HD payload option. And used, the F150HD's are rare and hard to find, usually XL construction trucks.

[Javi]

Its pretty easy really. My truck is a diesel, crew cab, 8 ft bed with nothing extra but power windows and door locks. 37.5 gallons if fuel vs I think 26 for the short bed F250
The sticker is posted in one of these threads.

[labs4life]

What will these guys who are towing over weight do when their insurance company denies a claim because they are overloaded!!! I guess they could just say, "but man it sure pulled good!"

[SAD]

Originally Posted by labs4life

What will these guys who are towing over weight do when their insurance company denies a claim because they are overloaded!!! I guess they could just say, "but man it sure pulled good!"

They will say nothing except, "Thanks for the prompt claim payment"

That's what insurance does, insures against negligence/stupidity.... Doesn't matter whos it is.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by SAD

They will say nothing except, "Thanks for the prompt claim payment"

That's what insurance does, insures against negligence/stupidity.... Doesn't matter whos it is.

I guess I was basing this off of fire policies where an insured knowingly did nothing about a dead tree. Said tree falls into house and company denies claim because of negligence. If tree was alive, no harm as claim is paid.

This to me is like building a new house in a forest of dead trees.....but oh well not my family. I will just most likely be meeting these issues on the road.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by labs4life

I guess I was basing this off of fire policies where an insured knowingly did nothing about a dead tree. Said tree falls into house and company denies claim because of negligence. If tree was alive, no harm as claim is paid.

This to me is like building a new house in a forest of dead trees.....but oh well not my family. I will just most likely be meeting these issues on the road.

If your auto insurance didn't cover your own auto against your own negligence, then what would the purpose of "collision" be? You'd only need liability to cover the other guy.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by SAD

If your auto insurance didn't cover your own auto against your own negligence, then what would the purpose of "collision" be? You'd only need liability to cover the other guy.

You are correct sir.....on another note, why do they even put payload ratings on trucks?? Which is the actual topic I suppose. Sorry for the brief derail!

[SAD]

Originally Posted by labs4life

You are correct sir.....on another note, why do they even put payload ratings on trucks?? Which is the actual topic I suppose. Sorry for the brief derail!

Total guess since no one NOT in the industry has access to enough information to do much but guess....

But the ratings (GVWR and GCWR) are designed to give average joe end user average performance, doing average things for a calculated average period of time (warranty) - all while staying competitive with the manufacturers peers.

GVWR also distinguishes between vehicles for crash test and emissions requirements.

There is no legal bearing for either of these ratings. This is why you can buy 12,000 pound "uprated" tags for your 9,000 GVWR 2500 truck. It's about how much weight did you pay for.

[Javi]

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by Javi

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Winner winner chicken dinner!!

[Randy_K]

Originally Posted by Javi

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Sorry, your Honor. The numbers are confusing, I did not know I was overloaded. The TV / TT dealer said I was ok.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Javi

SAD.... I think you'll find that while your company MIGHT pay, they will also cancel your future coverage. I'm also pretty sure you should re-read the exclusion s clauses of your policy. I know what mine says and I cannot knowingly cause the damage, not sure how a court would rule about intentionally overloading.
I am however very sure that should you be involved in a fatal incident or even a serious injury while knowingly overloaded, you would be in deep poop.

Have a moment if inattention.... Run a red light.... Tbone another vehicle who had the right-of-way... Seems pretty normal... Sort of stuff happens every day... So what you're saying is the guy who ran the red light gets cancelled?

[Javi]

In msny cases that is exactly what happens, now compound that with being overloaded and you have the recipe for a big lawsuit.
And while you may plead confusion and swear that you didn't know you were overloaded, I'll bet the team of investigators that slick lawyer hires will find evidence that you did know and callously chose to ignore it.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by Javi

Its pretty easy really. My truck is a diesel, crew cab, 8 ft bed with nothing extra but power windows and door locks. 37.5 gallons if fuel vs I think 26 for the short bed F250
The sticker is posted in one of these threads.

Amazing.

For that config (F250,4x4,Crew,172.4"WB,10K GVWR) the 2013 brochure says payload can be up to 3140#. But that must be for the 6.2L gasser. The truck I saw today was a 6.2L, and it's 3800# payload closely matches the brochure for its configuration.

Can the diesel really drop the payload by ~500# ??? Knew they were heavy but didn't know they were *that* heavy. Definitely a weighty "option".

And when talking about the F150's, I'm pretty sure there's no options quite that heavy. I hope ...

EDIT: and besides, the F150 brochure lists Max payloads for each engine and configuration separately. The F250 brochure does not list the engines separately. So F150 engine choices are not really "options" as far as calculating actual payload. Dealers should have a list of weights for F150 options so your actual payload can calculated.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Javi

In msny cases that is exactly what happens, now compound that with being overloaded and you have the recipe for a big lawsuit.
And while you may plead confusion and swear that you didn't know you were overloaded, I'll bet the team of investigators that slick lawyer hires will find evidence that you did know and callously chose to ignore it.

So... You're saying that conviction of a crime correlates to a lawsuit?

[Ken / Claudia]

Sad, that is true here and lawsiuts without criminal convictions happen. I helped with a overloaded vehicle 1 ton Dodge pulling a back hoe that had no working trailer brakes besides over loaded. The driver killed 3, I understood he or insurnace paid out several million. That was on a freeway traffic at speed and had come to a stop, he couldn't. Injuryed or worse, people involved will sue and stuff like what gets posted here will be found and show up in a lawyers office.

[labs4life]

The key words in an insurance policy are "sudden and accidental". If you read the policy verbiage you will find these words numerous times.
Towing "knowingly" overloaded is not either. If you choose to do this, you may never have any repercussions from it...if an accident whether at fault or not, I would be sweating bullets.

Like getting pulled over after you have had a few drinks....

[BruLaz]

It's not just what might happen legally if you get stopped by the weight police. Or if you get in an unrelated accident, and the lawyers discover that your truck is over-weight.

Overloading your axles can have very direct consequences, as I found out when I was much younger and accepted the salesman's advice: "just throw another leaf in the spring pack, and it'll be fine". It wasn't. An axle bearing failed and the whole wheel/axle started pulling out. Luckily I was in town and travelling slowly at the time and a pedestrian waved me down. The wheel/axle was sticking out about a foot from the side of the truck.

I keep wondering what would have happened if I was on the Interstate at high speeds towing something large. Because of that experience, I'm pretty strict about GAWRs. It didn't bother me too much that my previous truck exceeded its GVWR by a few hundred pounds, because the GAWRs (and tire ratings) were always OK. Still, I upgraded as soon as I could.