2012 Cougar Axel Story

[Azcougar]

We’re on the last leg of our vacation to Minnesota in our 2012 Keystone Cougar 5th Wheel, 10 miles west of Gallup, NM on I40 which is in the middle of nowhere. A Semi pulls up beside my wife and I and our 2 dogs and starts waving and honking, but at 65 MPH and very little shoulder to work with I could neither hear him or pull over so I slowed down and checked my outside mirrors which appeared to confirm that nothing was wrong. Mary and I started talking and thought that maybe the spare tire fell off but couldn’t confirm anything as the nearest exit was 8 miles away at the Arizona/New Mexico border, where we were going to stop at for gas, anyway. In the meantime another Semi comes along side and starts doing the same thing. We finally get to the truck stop I get out to see if the spare tire is still there and find that the whole drivers side wheel on the rear axel is completely missing, the only thing I see is the end of a bent up axel. A couple of interesting things; when I looked in the rear view mirrors all I could see is the front tire so that’s why I didn’t see the problem and the front tire looked fine, the end of the axel was about 3 to 4 inches above the ground so that’s why I didn’t see any sparks, and when the wheel separated from the trailer there was absolutely no damage nor any indication that any thing was wrong, everything looked and acted fine. Well the truckers came over and told me where the wheel went off, so I went back there the next day but didn’t find anything. Good Sam sent out a tow truck to lash up the end of the axel so that we could drive it back to Gallup but it turns out the tow truck driver couldn't find a way to lash it up without damaging the Cougar. So they had to send out another tow truck from Gallup, drop the rear axel, block up the front axel, putting all the weight normally absorbed by two axels and four tires on one axel and two tires and that’s how it was towed back to Gallup. Oh, I almost forgot, the rear leaf spring on the passenger side of the trailer was completely broken. To shorten the story we came on home the next day leaving the trailer in Gallup to be repaired. On that Tuesday I called Dexter, the axel manufacturer, after talking to the dealer we bought it from, to see if there was anything they could do or any recommendations they might have. As a result of those conversations Dexter felt that the front axel may have been comprised during this incident in addition to their concern that the serial numbers on these axles showed that they were load rated at 4400lbs/axel or 8800lbs combined and the max trailer load could be 8500lbs when you take 15% off the max load for the hitch which means there’s only a 300lb margin of error, or 150lbs/axel. So where are we now, there was no damage to the trailer or any vehicle, no one was hurt or injured, and Dexter is not only is picking up the cost of two new bigger 5200lb axels, but also bigger brakes, bigger bearings, replacing all four 2200lb leaf springs with 2600lb leaf springs, a brand new wheel, tire and 3 hours of labor to cover the install. It couldn’t have turned out any better, the only concern I have is that the next Keystone owner may not be as lucky as I don’t believe that most are aware of the axel ratings vs. the trailer load. It seems to me that Keystone in there zeal to contain cost may have went to far. I'm not an engineer but 150lbs/axel on todays roads does not seem to be a big enough margin of error. I will also say that I can't say enough about Dexter and their handling of this and Ace Truck Repair in Gallup, NM. Both of these companies in my opinion exemplify what customer service should be. Keystone on the other hand.......

[danimal]

Sorry to hear about your incident and glad no one was hurt and that you did not suffer any financial losses as a result of this mishap. Keystone must be getting cheaper and cheaper. My trailer listed below has a dry weight of 6600 lbs and dry pin weight of 1200 lbs meaning there is only 5400 lbs on the axles, dry. My trailer has 5200 lb axles! 10400 total axle rating. The trailers GVWR is over 10,000 lbs. Your trailer is light years ahead of my in terms of features and layout but it is sad that they cost cut and sacrifice safety.

[CWtheMan]

When looking at the specs for your Cougar on Keystone's web site and doing some calculations using those specs I cannot find a problem with them.

The vehicle manufacturer is not required to provide any load capacity reserves with the Original Equipment axles.

Installing 5200# axles is inviting overloading. Knowing your trailers specs and their relationship with overloading is the owners responsibility.

Only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified modifier has the authority to increase a trailer's GVWR. As long as the hitch weight and the GAWRs have a combined weight equal to or greater than the GVWR the load is within acceptable parameters. (GAWRs = 8800# + 1410 hitch weight = 10210# GVWR).

http://www.keystonerv.com/previous-y...ugar&year=2012


CW

[Azcougar]

Interesting reply, but neither I nor Dexter ever stated that this invited overloading as I believe that most owners could not tell you what their leaf springs, axles and brakes are rated at. I should also point out that when the manufacturer of the axle expresses concern then I think I should listen especially when I read about all the product issues associated with RV manufacturers. I used to be an engineer and we always factored in acceptable margins of safety as we knew that people would always push the LIMIT; when dealing with users you should always take into account that they given the opportunity they'll always push the limit. This Cougar is a little over a year old with less that 6000 miles on it and runs 9500lbs or less on each trip. I posted this story so that other less informed owners, like myself, might be made aware of a potential issue they may want to look into. It also seems reasonable to me that most owners have neither the time, knowledge or inclination to explore the engineering and design aspects of their respective coaches in order to determine if they're safe or not and I believe that any responsible manufacturer should not expect them to. In this case everything turned out well but it could also have been catastrophic. I applaud Dexter for stepping up to the plate and going above and beyond, I now have less respect for Keystone for engineering to the minimums.....

[dankent]

Thanks for the posting. I should look at my 333MKS and see what axles it has and what i am good for.

[byrdr1]

Originally Posted by Azcougar

Interesting reply, but neither I nor Dexter ever stated that this invited overloading as I believe that most owners could not tell you what their leaf springs, axles and brakes are rated at. I should also point out that when the manufacturer of the axle expresses concern then I think I should listen especially when I read about all the product issues associated with RV manufacturers. I used to be an engineer and we always factored in acceptable margins of safety as we knew that people would always push the LIMIT; when dealing with users you should always take into account that they given the opportunity they'll always push the limit. This Cougar is a little over a year old with less that 6000 miles on it and runs 9500lbs or less on each trip. I posted this story so that other less informed owners, like myself, might be made aware of a potential issue they may want to look into. It also seems reasonable to me that most owners have neither the time, knowledge or inclination to explore the engineering and design aspects of their respective coaches in order to determine if they're safe or not and I believe that any responsible manufacturer should not expect them to. In this case everything turned out well but it could also have been catastrophic. I applaud Dexter for stepping up to the plate and going above and beyond, I now have less respect for Keystone for engineering to the minimums.....

thanks,
I will look at mine over this nice pretty weekend..because I can't go camping so it' s parked at the house and I can crawl around on the concrete pad the tires are on.
randy

[airforceret]

I think it would be great if everyone had an opportunity (or requirement) to run their rigs across a CAT scale configured and loaded for travel. I think some would be surprised both under and overweight!

I've always done mine for insurance reasons in the event of an accident or major break down so they can't claim overweight!

[CWtheMan]

RV trailer axle information often overlooked or misunderstood.

Each individual axle installed as Original Equipment on your RV trailer is selected by the trailer's manufacturer. The information found on the individual axle for load capacity does not necessarily indicate the actual certified load capacity for the installed axle (s). The trailer manufacturer has the authority (found in the certification regulation) to set the GAWR to satisfy other regulations such as cargo capacity and tire/rim selection.

The most important label found on your trailer is the cargo label. If the information on the trailer's certification label is correct you cannot overload your trailer if you follow the cargo label information. That rule was implemented in 2007.

CW

[Pmedic4]

When I read your story, my initial question is, What caused the tire/wheel to come off? Did it shear the wheel bolt studs? Lug nuts come off? Hub broke? Axle Nut came off? Tire blow-out Etc? Probably lost the most important evidence with the tire and wheel/ hub.

I'm not questioning if you did something wrong, just wondering where the failure was on the axle. Clearly, I don't want it to happen to me or anyone else! The one thing our dealer prep person told us was to check the lug nuts as it seems the Alloy wheels on the Cougars had a tendency to loosen, and everyone talks about checking the tire pressure on the RV, so between the lug nuts and tire pressure, I've probably been overly cautious. The longest trips we've taken are 100-ish mile trips, so definitely not in the range you went ( Someday... Someday), and only have total of around 1200 miles since we picked up. Also, as an individual, I can't afford to replace the axles on my 5ver with axles like you had done, but ours is close to yours in weight and size, so as you can imagine, I'm concerned.

[Jabber2Jake]

Cat Scale readings....

Entire rig, on 3 scales at once

Truck Steer axle 4,500 lbs
Truck Drive axle 5,240 lbs
Trailer axle 7,980 lbs (both axles combined)
Gross weight (truck & trailer) 17,720 lbs
Pin weight 1,880 lbs
Trailer weight 9,860 lbs
Trailer's GVWR 11,785 lbs

Trailer weight minus pin weight = 7,980 lbs (trailer axle weight)
My axles are rated at 5200 lbs each

Thus, 7980 lbs riding on 10400 lbs axle rating leaves a margin of 2420 lbs.
This seems fine to me.

Do others have a similar margin of error?

[jsmith948]

Well...all that is great. Your new, heavier rated axles give you plenty of cushion. But; what I (and I'm sure some others) would like to know is what was the cause of the wheel coming off?
If I'm reading your original post correctly, you are implying the wheel came off because the axle was under rated. If the wheel wasn't properly torqued; or, if the bearing failed (or the spindle nut came off) then I wouldn't think that was due to a weak axle. I guess more info/details would be good

[LittleJoe]

Also don't forget the fact that the front axle tires have probably been compromised front carrying far in excess of thier capacity while the trailer was towed back on the front axle, especially if there was more than a short distance and low speed involved.

Loosing a tire/wheel is a very serious offence in the commercial truck world, if it is proven to not be a hub failure. The fine is IIRC 5K to driver and 25K to company.(edit to add "in Ontario")

[Ken / Claudia]

I phoned dexter shortly after the purchase and they send me by email papers showing the all the axle, brake, serial, etc information. Very nice folks I talked to. I did not have any problems, just looking for information at the time. I actually phoned them several times, years ago regarding IDs on possiable stolen trailers by useing the serial numbers of their axles when there was no other ID left on the trailers and was able to recover stolen trailers.
Regarding how the wheel and tire came off may never be know but, I would guess(since we do not have the facts) the lugs got loose and it came off. I also only guess, that the other damage was caused after the axle shifted without a wheel/tire traveling that way for some miles. It is great that he got new axles and better ones at that.

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

...
Regarding how the wheel and tire came off may never be know but, I would guess(since we do not have the facts) the lugs got loose and it came off. I also only guess, that the other damage was caused after the axle shifted without a wheel/tire traveling that way for some miles. It is great that he got new axles and better ones at that.

Personally, I wouldn't think it was the lugs coming loose, which is why I asked the question previously. A picture would be worth a thousand words. The way most of us RVr's would view the answer of the lugs coming loose, it would be the fault of the owner: it is our responsibility to maintain our RV and some of the critical maintenance items is checking tire pressure and the lugnuts being torqued tight, and checked on a regular basis. If not maintained properly, it isn't Dexter's responsibility to replace the axles.
My guess is there was something visibly wrong with the axle, such as the spindle broken, causing the wheel to come off - so the tire, wheel and hub came off in one piece, therefore clearly the fault of the axle manufacturer. While we are all pleased to hear that Dexter gave AZCougar great service, went above and beyond by upgrading his RV axles, it would seem something had to point to a product failure for them to honor their product warranty.

And who knows, perhaps it was Keystones fault for installing the wrong axle assemblies - it's not hard to imagine a company moving a few hundred axle assemblies a day around, might have installed the wrong ones, and Keystone helped make it right. Of course, maybe they were just being a good company. It is interesting to see how AZCougar got great service, when others complain about poor service from RV manufacturers. I'm willing to bet AZCougar was friendly, pleasant and courteous to the people he dealt with on his problem.

[Ken / Claudia]

Pmedic4, I reread the 1st post and caught the part about finding only a axle. (wheel/tire,brakes missing)
I missed that before. So, you can be right. I would add that I have seen bearings fail due to no lube or over weight. They over heat, the wheel starts shimmying at high speeds, the wheel and tire come off. Its all possible. If heat was invloved I would think it could be see on the axle. We really will never know for sure at this point what happened.

[dankent]

wow .. my axles on my 333MKS are 5200 lbs and i have 2 which mean 10400

So when i weighed my setup a couple weeks ago the scale that had my trailer sitting on it was at 9600 lbs.

So there deffinetly is not much wiggle room.

[Jabber2Jake]

dankent,
Was that the trailer by itself unhitched?
If hitched, the axle weight is less, as 20 - 25% of the
weight is on the 5er's hitch.

[dankent]

It was connected to the truck on the scale, I have not been able to weigh the trailer on its own yet.

[CWtheMan]

Here is a good reference to use when heading to the scales with your trailer.

http://www.trucktires.com/bridgeston.../WeighForm.pdf

CW

[dankent]

wow thanks for that .. lol i have been weighing the whole thing, truck and trailer at the same time. Guess i should find a better scale , as doing that at a CAT scale gonna cost me.