Which would you buy Cougar or Montana HC?

Uneasyrider · 08-27-2018, 10:05 AM

So we plan on living in this full time and I really like keystone for us. I thought we had picked out the one we want in a Cougar 310RLS but now am checking out Montana High Country units. I am confused as to the difference between Montana and Montana High Country and if the High Country which fits my budget and needs is better for us than a Cougar.

Any input would be most appreciated.

JimMach1 · 08-27-2018, 10:48 AM

Montana if you are full timing it. And we have a cougar but Montana claims better for full timers.

Mikendebbie · 08-27-2018, 10:52 AM

Testimonials from Cougar owners will be found here.
I had a Laredo before the Montana and found lots of good info here also.

You can go to the Montana Owners Club forums and read much more about experiences with those units.

**JRTJH** · 08-27-2018, 11:38 AM

There are some significant differences between the Montana and the Montana High Country. Notably, the HC is a "lightweight model" meaning it has sandwiched floor construction rather than 5/8" solid flooring under the vinyl and carpet. There are some "shorter models" in the HC line that use 10" frame rails with 12" rails on the longer models. In the Montana line, all trailers employ 12" frame rails. The suspension system is different, CRE3000 on the HC and Road Warrior suspension on the Montana.

There are enough differences between the two lines to give anyone cause to compare them but also to contrast them. They are not "the same with just a lower option choices"....

larry337 · 08-27-2018, 12:45 PM

As stated the Montana High Country is a lighter, stripped down version of the Montana. The cougar is lighter yet. Between the 2 I'd choose the Montana HC, mostly because you'll find the drop frame construction offers much larger basement storage areas. If you can afford it, I'd actually just get a real Montana if you plan on living in it. It should hold up longer and be more comfortable in the long run.

Uneasyrider · 08-27-2018, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There are some significant differences between the Montana and the Montana High Country. Notably, the HC is a "lightweight model" meaning it has sandwiched floor construction rather than 5/8" solid flooring under the vinyl and carpet. There are some "shorter models" in the HC line that use 10" frame rails with 12" rails on the longer models. In the Montana line, all trailers employ 12" frame rails. The suspension system is different, CRE3000 on the HC and Road Warrior suspension on the Montana.

There are enough differences between the two lines to give anyone cause to compare them but also to contrast them. They are not "the same with just a lower option choices"....

These are just the kind of things that I am interested in. Forgiving my ignorance, what is sandwiched floor construction? I notice that the axles on the HC have a higher GAWR which I like since I am looking for a short one with the 10" frame rails you are talking about I assume. I this better construction than the Cougar? I think that the frame is from my reading about drop frames which is how I got to this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry337

As stated the Montana High Country is a lighter, stripped down version of the Montana. The cougar is lighter yet. Between the 2 I'd choose the Montana HC, mostly because you'll find the drop frame construction offers much larger basement storage areas. If you can afford it, I'd actually just get a real Montana if you plan on living in it. It should hold up longer and be more comfortable in the long run.

I don't want to buy a heavy trailer which the Montana seems to be, looking for 10K to 11K empty. Nice to know about the bigger basement, thanks. We want to live 1 month in a park and move on to another for about 8 to 10 years. We used to do this summers in our 40's on a Goldwing during school vacation with nothing that wouldn't fit in closed bags and we were gone 8 weeks at a time for 10 years. We want to spend more than one night in our favorite areas and really get to know them and winter a few months here in Florida.

NotyetMHCowner · 08-28-2018, 02:46 AM

We have a 2015 Montana High Country 305RL that we plan on full timing in beginning 6/2022 that we purchased new. When we decided to full time, we really wanted a Mobile Suites but already had the HC. We just couldn't justify trading the HC and having to buy a much newer truck (I have a 2006 Ford dually but it wouldn't "legally" tow a Mobile Suites). I would look at used Mobile Suites if you have or will get the proper sized tow vehicle since the Mobile Suites is so heavy.

If you are determined to purchase new and the choice is between the two you mentioned, I would definitely get the High Country. We love our and have had very few issues with it.

Javi · 08-28-2018, 03:42 AM

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

Uneasyrider · 08-28-2018, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

Could you tell me what the many things that you don't like about the lightweight construction are?

Javi · 08-29-2018, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uneasyrider

Could you tell me what the many things that you don't like about the lightweight construction are?

The other folks have pretty much covered the issues with light weight construction.. And as others have said even a $500,000 dollar 5'er will have problems.. just not as many

The DW and I have talked about chunking it all and hitting the road but I wouldn't want to trust the Cougar to hold up to heavy use on a daily basis...

Things like the 5200 pound axles but wheels rated for less than the O.E.M. tires it came equipped with...

GVWR of 12,350 and if I fill all the tanks I'd have to unload everything else in the trailer..

Virtually no storage behind the axles which gives lie to the advertised dry pin weight..

Axles moved forward to lighten the pin weight creating a terrible "swing" when turning or backing..

Without a drop frame the basement is uselessly small...

The slides are great except I bump my head every time I sit down in the recliner or at the table.

As discussed the floors are not 5/8" plywood, so there are spots in the floor that we avoid by putting a foot rest or rug over them..

The 12" frame trailers are also 6" wider than the light weight or even the 10" trailers..

I could go on and on but I think you can get the point of all this.. I can use this trailer and enjoy it a few days at a time, but unless forced to by circumstances beyond my ability to control... I would never freely decide to "LIVE" in it..

Bottom line... I compromised what I wanted to accommodate the truck I had and bought a trailer to "FIT" my truck. And then found out that the reality was the pin weight was much heavier than would be indicated by the dry weight.. So much so that I traded in a one year old F250 to get something that would legally carry the trailer that I bought to "FIT" my truck

I'm stupid and "trusted" the numbers,

but I can learn... I bought an F350 dually, just so this ain't gonna happen again..

In my case it wasn't the monetary difference of $10K - $15K in pricing between a heavier trailer and this Cougar... really not much difference in the payments anyway.... it was BUT I ALREADY HAVE THIS NICE TRUCK... that bit me in the butt...

Buy what you can afford... and live with the reality

tmihalic · 09-02-2018, 08:18 AM

All of the talk, but it is still talk. Every rig has a few problems. It's just the way they are built. RV manufacturers haven't caught up to auto/truck manufacturers in the way they do quality. I have a 38' Cougar that is 13'2" tall and weighs 12K. I have had it 4 years. I have no oxidation because I wax it twice a year, which is really easy if you use the right stuff, such as "Wash, Wax All" which is made for jetliners and easy to use. That's right, still no oxidation. The size of the basement is dependent on the model you choose. My domestic refer didn't cool as cold as I thought it should. I bought an electronic control box on ebay for $20 that solved that problems. Lots of friends have added that an no more cold problems. If thy want you can make your refer section a freezer with it. I haven't had problems with my cable slides, but friends with hydraulic ones have. I have 7L pound axles. So as you can see, it the model you buy. In answer to your first question, what to pull it with. A diesel dually. No ifs, ands or butts about it. I prefer the Ram. I have a 2013 that handles that trailer like it isn't even there. Shop around, and buy a workable floor plan, buy it, and maintain it, and wax it twice a year.

Gurlieee97 · 09-02-2018, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

Javi · 09-02-2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurlieee97

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

Because the lightweight trailers like my Cougar (which by the way isn't considered a 1/2 ton trailer) just aren't constructed to hold up to every day use... A weekend here and there with a week long or two once in a while... sure but daily use 365 24/7... nope...

But I guess if you can lighten your load by keeping your wardrobe down to a couple of changes of outfits, buying groceries every couple of days, using the laundromat, paper plates and carrying no more than you have to you could keep it under the GVWR.. maybe..

1760 lbs. don't go far if you start adding water.

Fresh water tank is 500 lbs. by itself.. if the waste tanks are full it's another 950 lbs...

don't leave much room for tools, food, clothes, grills, pots, pans, dishes, DVD's, fishing rods, tackle... etc.

Do... IT...

**JRTJH** · 09-02-2018, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurlieee97

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

Not to beat a dead horse, but here goes

The "regular weight" trailers use either a 7/8", 3/4" or 5/8" solid, Dynaspan floor. The "light weight" trailers use a 1/4" luan/1.5" Styrofoam/1/8" luan sandwich. If you've ever "jumped on a 1/4" sheet of plywood, you know that it isn't going to hold up to the same "walking weight" as a 3/4" sheet of floor decking. That suggests that over a period of a few years (take my Cougar XLite as an example) the floor will become "spongy" as the Styrofoam core breaks down into "little Styrofoam balls".... Then, add lightweight plastic shower walls with a plastic shower base instead of a fiberglass shower stall...

We haven't even begun to discuss the cabinet structure (hardwood stiles vs hardwood cabinets) or axle ratings, frame rail size, outrigger construction, gauge of the aluminum tubing used in the wall structures, spacing of the aluminum tubing (16" centers vs as needed for anticipated engineering loads).

There's a significant difference in "light weight construction" vs "conventional construction....

It's not just in trailers, if you stop and think about what a 2x4 used to measure vs what today's 2x4 really is (3.5x1.5) you'll see that "light weight" isn't as strong as the "regular stuff"....

Again, not trying to

but you can only jump on/bend/stress Styrofoam so many times before it breaks down. You get significantly more strength from solid wood/wood component flooring than you do from Styrofoam flooring. It's the same with many other "concepts" in light weight engineering. YMMV

gearhead · 08-28-2018, 06:12 AM

We had a Cougar XLite for a year, then the Montana HC.
I'm now looking at used DRV, etc.
I have no plans to full time in a trailer.
I would look at a used regular Montana before I bought a new HC.
I would look at a new Grand Design Reflection before I looked at a new HC.

Uneasyrider · 08-28-2018, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearhead

We had a Cougar XLite for a year, then the Montana HC.
I'm now looking at used DRV, etc.
I have no plans to full time in a trailer.
I would look at a used regular Montana before I bought a new HC.
I would look at a new Grand Design Reflection before I looked at a new HC.

So what am I missing that makes you not like the HC? I have been looking at a standard Cougar 5th wheel, not a half ton or lighter.

Dave W · 08-28-2018, 08:57 AM

We own a '14 Montana HC. We are very satisfied with what we have. We looked at 5ers from outta sight price wise, regular Montana's, various Forest River products and Cougars, mostly their 327RES. For our dollars we have found that it serves our purpose completely.

Have we had problems, not really anything big, just little niggles. Have a couple component items failed - so far a kitchen water faucet. Have we made upgrades - phew!! For sure, including better tires, heavier suspension, disc brakes and a second a/c.

It is not a 4 season RV though we have managed to put well into the 22-23,000 mile bracket over 4 years and next week begins our late summer travels where we expect another 3-4000 miles to be added.

This 38 footer has the 10" frame and to date, nary a problem. It is NOT, as noted above, a very light 5er at just under 12,000 pounds ready to travel tho with 10 gallons of water regardless of what the brocure info says.

Good bang for your buck and IMHO, a good value. A Cougar - it's not too far behind either and was our 3rd choice

**JRTJH** · 08-28-2018, 09:28 AM

As has been posted, fifth wheels vary by much more than just floorplan and features. The construction techniques are not clearly outlined with each brand and vary from brand to brand. What is used in the Montana may not be used in the Montana HC, but is used in the Cougar but not the Cougar Half Ton.

Essentially, it's "sort of safe to say" that the Montana and the Cougar employ "heavy weight construction techniques" while the Montana HC and Cougar Half Ton employ "light weight construction techniques"... That is NOT a "hard and fast rule" and many of the "heavy construction" features are incorporated in the Montana HC while some of the "light weight" features are used in the Cougar line.

Confusing ???? Just wait until you try to figure out just what is and what is not in each trailer line.... When you try to build a comparison using a checklist, you'll find that even within a given brand lineup, you'll have some models that use one kind of construction while others use a different technique. Example: 10" vs 12" frame rails while still using the "drop front frame".... Then start adding lighter axles, lower headroom in the front of the trailer (bedroom on most models), 6'6" slide headroom vs 6' headroom, laminated floor vs solid floor, rear cap vs hanging rear wall.

It's extremely difficult to "line things up for an apples to apples comparison, even when you go right down to the component level. Just when you think you've got it figured out, along comes an optional package that changes three things when it adds one more.

Essentially, the biggest difference between the Montana and the Montana HC is the "light weight construction techniques" used in the HC. For me (others may disagree completely) that alone would cause me to lean toward the Montana and away from the HC line. Having a Cougar XLite with the laminated floor (luan/Styrofoam/luan) in place of a solid floor with insulation under it is my only experience with the "sandwich floor". Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the performance even though it reduces overall trailer weight.

To add to this already confusing post, consider that the Cougar is a "mid height" trailer with "mostly heavy trailer construction" but weighs about the same as the HC which is "mostly light weight construction". That extra weight is added by "luxury, real wood cabinet stiles and appearance items" while the "weight is removed by using "Styrofoam rather than solid decking" in the floor. So, what you see in the HC "looks like a Montana" but doesn't perform as such......

Whew, I'm glad I'm not the one trying to decide what to buy.... Good Luck.

NotyetMHCowner · 08-28-2018, 09:41 AM

We are keeping our HC as a full time rig because it gets us on the road sooner. To purchase a larger truck and take a possible loss on our HC for a DRV would require us to stay home longer than we desire.

We love our HC but if we had it to do over again, we would buy a used DRV for the same price we paid for our rig. Then I would have bought a newer F350 or F450 and we would have had about the same money tied up.

That is why I suggested a used Mobile Suites if you know you're full timing. They are built much better than any of the other trailers listed in the thread. We found a 2015 DRV Mobile Suites 34TKS (IIRC) for the mid $50k's. That's almost what we paid for our new 2015 HC.

Like I said before, if you are dead set on a new unit, I would go HC. A new DRV is just under $100k.

Mikendebbie · 08-29-2018, 02:55 AM

[QUOTE=JRTJH;304610
Essentially, the biggest difference between the Montana and the Montana HC is the "light weight construction techniques" used in the HC. For me (others may disagree completely) that alone would cause me to lean toward the Montana and away from the HC line. Having a Cougar XLite with the laminated floor (luan/Styrofoam/luan) in place of a solid floor with insulation under it is my only experience with the "sandwich floor". Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the performance even though it reduces overall trailer weight.

To add to this already confusing post, consider that the Cougar is a "mid height" trailer with "mostly heavy trailer construction" but weighs about the same as the HC which is "mostly light weight construction". That extra weight is added by "luxury, real wood cabinet stiles and appearance items" while the "weight is removed by using "Styrofoam rather than solid decking" in the floor. So, what you see in the HC "looks like a Montana" but doesn't perform as such......

Whew, I'm glad I'm not the one trying to decide what to buy.... Good Luck.[/QUOTE]

Our 2017 Laredo had an issue that was fixed under warranty, but basically the black tank was not installed correctly to the floor seal in the factory. Stuff sloshed and splashed up and our bathroom floor rotted out around the potty in 10 months. The dealer told me something like this...”since they have gone to sandwich floor for light wt construction we have had nothing but problems that we did not have when floors were plywood or OSB.” It did not make sense to me at the time but with the statement above “Luann-styrofoam-Luann” it makes complete sense how easily the floor in my bathroom was weakened and rotted out.

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