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Old 08-14-2019, 04:46 PM   #21
mwemaxxowner
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I have free unlimited access to a scale, as I work for a trucking company.

But, before I got this job, I learned that both my local scrap yard, and my kind of local landfill will let me use their scale if I want free of charge. All it took was being a friendly customer and asking if they would mind.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 5J's View Post
Good catch. I looked for the vehicle mfg date but didn't think to look at the sticker posted. However the best way to know is like I stated earlier, pack the truck for a camping trip and head to the scales. Subtract the scales weights from the GVWR and GAWR. Or as posted earlier ask the TV salesman, the F150 is fine for a 36' Alpine. [emoji16]
I completely agree with the bolded statement!!!

Many owners look at the payload sticker, then add running boards (50 lb), a truck cap (175 lbs), a bed liner (75 lbs), a GPS, rear DVD player, TPMS for trailer, brake control, Sirius radio, maps, seat covers, floor mats, and other "additions, and say, "My payload sticker says my trailer can weigh XXX and my trailer tongue is only XX." The omit the DW, DS, DD, pooch, ice chest and camping cargo/firewood/grill/propane tank/generator (because they aren't "permanently attached".....

The best way to know what you can carry (or what you're carrying) is to drive across an accurate scale and get the numbers.....

As for that 36' Alpine, yeah, probably OK, but don't opt for the 39' version....
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:19 AM   #23
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Got it...and a 150 is defiantly short for a fiver....
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:18 AM   #24
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I own an F-150 Lariat with a max tow package that I use to tow my 2017 Cougar X-Lite 25RES. I have had no issue with handling or performance. Before I bought the 5th wheel I called Ford Support and gave them the VIN. They cam back with the data that I needed to make an informed decision.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:28 AM   #25
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Looking for any experiences this group has with the half ton fifth wheels. We want to move up from our travel trailer as fifth wheel towing is safer and more fun. We have a F150 with tow package, etc. Ford guide says our model can take a 10k # fifth wheel. Really? We could handle the 27SGS with a weight of 8k # ok?
I have a 2016 Cougar that's "half-ton towable". I would never put that thing behind a half ton. It would max a half ton out and forget going over any passes. Sorry but my advice is don't.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:28 AM   #26
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Oregon duck is right on. half ton towable are a real push for the capabilities of a half ton truck. the numbers might look like it will work, BUT not in the real world of towing. You will be maxed out on flat ground, let alone a mountain climb. one ratio I have used is 1 to 1.3 10,000 lb trailer (full load-not dry weight), truck should be capable of towing 13,000 lbs. more is always better.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:44 AM   #27
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We bought a small 5th wheel in 2013, a Crossroads Cruiser. We then had to find a pickup (Sticker Shock!) We wanted a half-ton for better mileage when we weren't towing. We shopped around carefully and ended up ordering a Ford F150 6 cycl Ecoboost, specifically sized to tow our camper safely (heavy-duty payload, tow package, etc.). MANY people told us what a huge mistake we were making, that a half-ton would never tow a 5th wheel or that the brakes, engine, transmission wouldn't hold up.

Here we are, on our second small 5th wheel, towing it with our 2014 F150 with no problems. We have 50,000+ on it and have towed the camper all over the US, including the Rockies. No problems with the engine or transmission, we had the brakes replaced this year. I love our choices and combination.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:54 AM   #28
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I am sure you will get a lot of response here on your question; I can be a first. Safest answer is no. Dry weight of the rig should not be considered when looking at your towing ability; you'll want to calculate what the rig would weigh fully loaded. And more importantly, it is all about your payload - the truck's payload that is. Pin weight (at 20% of the total loaded weight of the rig) plus all the weight of your truck (passengers, full tank of gas, etc). Compare that number to your yellow door sticker. I have a Cougar half-ton 5'er and am right at my max payload for my F250.

If I could go back in time, I would have gotten the F350. As mentioned, I'm sure you'll hear from many on this forum that the "half-ton towable" 5th wheel is more of a marketing angle, in that there are only a select few half-ton trucks that can truly, safely, tow one.
I too would have bought a very capable TV a few years ago rather than "experimenting". I had a Dodge 2500 Cummins and a Cougar X-lite, supposedly that could be towed with a half-ton. My 2500 struggled. I upgraded to a 3500 and that was very capable of towing the Cougar. In my opinion the only RV that is 1/2 ton towable are those that are very light weight. Would I tow a fifth wheel with a half ton? Nope. Yes, the manufacturer of those trucks will claim "tow ready" which in many cases is just the wiring, brake controller and the hitches. Our 3500 diesels are much more capable with larger axles and brakes, robust suspension, exhaust brakes and engines/transmissions that can handle those loads.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:51 AM   #29
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Saying things like, "We wanted a capable tow vehicle for when we travel but also want a vehicle that gets good gas mileage when not towing and is easy to park in the grocery store parking lot" is much like saying, "We want a large family, maybe 8 or 10 kids, but don't want our grocery bill to be any more than when it was just the two of us."

If you can find that vehicle, (I haven't)...
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #30
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I learned the hard way

I learned the hard way. The first thing is to weigh the 5th wheel with everything you are going to take on a trip Including fresh water and full propane half full black and gray tanks use water to fill them. Now go to a CAT Scale (pilot, Flying J. or other) and weigh the truck and trailer with axles on different parts of the scale so each axle is weighed. Yes the 1/2 ton I was using would pull the so called half ton trailer, but I was way over its limits. The Pin weight alone was 1,540 Lbs this with the front compartment almost empty and very light items in it. The batteries and full propane tanks added a bunch. Then I checked the axle specs and the tires on the half ton tow veh and found that they were not designed to carry all of the weight from the trailer and what was in the truck. I also had a F250 and it was barly in spec's. Never had a problem towing even in the mountains, but I wish I would have had a F350 for safetys sake. Weigh weigh the rig fully loaded and then make a desicion.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #31
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The fuel mileage thing, imo, is moot.
Our '17 Ram 3500 6.7l Diesel gets the same if not slightly better mileage than our '12 Ram 1500 with a 5.7l Hemi gas motor. Right at around 18mpg empty. Pretty decent for a 1 ton dually, to say the least.


If not towing with the Ram, we use the Fusion anyway
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:20 AM   #32
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I HAD a 2013 F150 with a towing package. The RV dealership said no problem! I bought a 2014 Keystone Laredo 8500 pound dry weight. Pulled it with the F-150 for two years. No problems as long as I was on straight level ground. That's not an issue here in Louisiana. Had to replace the brakes in 2015 but it was when the transmission started going out in 2016 that I bought my F250. Thanks Dixie RV!
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:48 AM   #33
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Interesting...I have the same set up. What is your truck’s payload
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #34
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I have a similar set up but am concerned about payload. I’m only at a little under 1600. How about yourselves?
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:19 PM   #35
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I have a similar set up but am concerned about payload. I’m only at a little under 1600. How about yourselves?
If your payload is under 1600 lbs...no way are you going to get a 5ver that will fall under that all loaded up, hitch and family and all, ready to go! Unless it's a teeeeeeeeny tiny 5ver. Lol


I used to tow 5th wheels. Now it's a bumper pull. A 5th wheel does tow better. Due to the geometry and physics it's almost impossible for one to sway like a bumper pull, but it's not the end of the world. Good hitch selection, careful hitch setup, and good loading will go a long way.

There are other pros to a bumper pull. Such as roof clearance. A little less likely to catch on tree branches in wooded parks or Lord forbid on a low bridge that you didn't pay attention to. There is one not that far from the in NC that is infamous for taking out RVs.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:04 PM   #36
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Here are the "very light" (half ton towable) models produced by Keystone:

Springdale: 253FWRE FIFTH WHEEL
Shipping Weight 8615 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 1685 lbs.
Hitch 1500 lbs.

Laredo: 255SRL SUPER-LITE FIFTH WHEEL
Shipping Weight 7113 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 2887 lbs.
Hitch 1375 lbs.

Hideout: 262RES FIFTH WHEEL
Shipping Weight 7956 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 2544 lbs.
Hitch 1605 lbs.

Cougar Half Ton: HALF-TON 25RES FIFTH WHEEL
Shipping Weight 7582 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 2418 lbs.
Hitch 1505 lbs.


Some comments about the above:

Shipping Weight PLUS Carrying Capacity gives the GVW
Hitch Weight is EMPTY. Add batteries, propane and the weight of the fifth wheel hitch (around 100-150 pounds) to get the actual "empty trailer" pin weight with hitch applied to the truck bed directly above the rear axle.

Consider, if the truck's payload is 1600 pounds, the lightest empty pin weight for a Keystone fifth wheel is the Laredo at 1375. Add a "light hitch" at 100 pounds and the empty trailer will add 1375+100=1475 pounds to the truck. That leaves 125 pounds for the DW, kids, pooch, ice chest, generator, fire wood, tools, and anything else that might find its way into the truck......

So, to answer the question, "Will 1600 pounds be enough payload to tow a Keystone fifth wheel?".... The short answer is, "For two people, nope, not in this lifetime."

There are some fifth wheels that will work. Here is one model, the Escape 5.0 https://escapetrailer.com/trailers/the-5-0-escape/
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:06 PM   #37
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Also, most F150s people drive these days are short bed, so a slider hitch is very likely needed, so it will be heavier than a standard 5th wheel hitch
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:27 PM   #38
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Also, most F150s people drive these days are short bed, so a slider hitch is very likely needed, so it will be heavier than a standard 5th wheel hitch

Grand Design sells a line specifically for 1/2 ton trucks and the pin box is made by Lippert called “turning point”. The pivot point is at the back.
https://www.lci1.com/rv-pin-boxes
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:30 PM   #39
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I have a 2019 Keystone Cougar 30 RLS 34 foot 5th wheel and it says HALF TON on the front of it. Loaded it weights right at 12,000 pounds.

I tow with a 2012 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7 diesel, 3:73 gears, 4x4 4 door short bed single rear wheels.
Tows great and on average mpg towing ranges from 10 to 12 mpg. If I hit a lot
of 6% hills up or down it will drop down to 9 to 10 mpg.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:56 AM   #40
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Looking for any experiences this group has with the half ton fifth wheels. We want to move up from our travel trailer as fifth wheel towing is safer and more fun. We have a F150 with tow package, etc. Ford guide says our model can take a 10k # fifth wheel. Really? We could handle the 27SGS with a weight of 8k # ok?
I have to echo the other posters who advised you to take your current F-150 to the scales. If you can stop by a CAT scale the next time you're out with your TT, unhitch the TT and weigh the pickup with your family and gear on board, that'll give you a good idea how much payload you'll have leftover for the fifth wheel's pin weight and the fifth wheel hitch. Take the scaled weight and subtract it from your 7000# GVWR to get your actual available payload.

The F-150 with a Heavy Duty Payload Package is rare on the used market. It's basically has the lower end payload capacity of a 3/4 ton, so its not you're average 1/2 ton.

I know a lot of people say that the 5er tows much better than a TT but in my experience, the difference isn't as much as I thought it would be. I think that speaks to the effort I put into setting up my 12K Equal-i-zer WDH with my 7300# TT. But you still have to have tow vehicle that's properly matched to the weight of the TT. So, if the only reason you want to upgrade to a 5er is for a better towing experience, I suggest you should try to dial in your WDH better first, and save yourself a lot of money.

With respect to the slider hitch comment, my 5er has the Reese Revolution pinbox which LCI copied to make their "Turning Point" pinbox. It works fantastic with a shortbed (mine is 6'9") but it does eliminate the possibility of using the Andersen Ultimate hitch.
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