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Old 04-10-2018, 05:40 PM   #1
eokip1
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TW - Help

If the weight behind the rear axle of your TV is added to your TW would it be proportionate to say that what ever weight I add behind the rear axle of the TT would be subtracted from the TW, or is it based on a percentage? I'm new at this and want to do it right as I want to be a responsible tower! more questions to follow! lol
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:54 PM   #2
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TT tow better if they are level or just a hair nose down. Tongue weight should be about 15%. The only accurate way to do that is with a tongue scale of some sort or at a scale when you do multiple weights in the connected and disconnected states. Hope this helps. Forward of the TT axle adds and behind can reduce it depending on where it is.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:59 PM   #3
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I'm not sure I understand your question.

Simplified, your truck weighs X, your trailer weighs X. Your truck has certain weight capacities like payload that you can use as a guide to calculate what you can/cannot tow behind the truck due to that restriction. You have gross axle weights, gross vehicle weight, gross combined vehicle and trailer weight then you trailer has a dry weight, gross vehicle weight and your axles have their own gross weight. LOTS of things to take into account.

The best, only, way to KNOW what you have is to use a scale. In lieu of that use your truck capacities, your trailer specified weights and then use (for me) 12% of your trailer gvw (bumper pull) to give you and IDEA of where you are at if looking for tongue weight. Rear axle, in front, behind, etc. etc. play a huge role in where those weights fall, but you need to know the front end numbers to even start. Hope that helps, at least a little if I understood correctly.
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:35 PM   #4
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sorry guys! What I meant to say was if weight behind the rear axle of the TV is added to the TW then could I not add weight behind the rear axle of the TT to reduce the TW, if so is it equal or based on a percentage? Example: want to reduce TW by 30 pounds so if I add 30 pounds behind rear axle of TT will it reduce TW by 30 pounds?
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:46 PM   #5
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No, it's not a proportionate thing. Adding behind the trailer axles "can" reduce tongue weight. You have to take into account what is required at the tongue to produce a level/appropriate load on the truck to make things tow well. Anything added in the truck, in front or behind the axle, adds to the weight of the truck and reduces the payload of the vehicle - and can drastically reduce the "fun" of towing.
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:45 AM   #6
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To determine the effect of loads at various positions relative to the pivot points (axles and hitch tongue), the engineering tool used is called a "free body diagram". A google search will give you more insights, but it does take an understanding of physics to use appropriately.

I am speculating now: Not sure why the interest in reducing your tongue weight for your combination. You have plenty of payload capacity with the F250 for a 23RB. As sourdough points out, the fun of towing reduces as one's TW reduces. On the flip side, too much TW and TV tracking can get squirrely as load comes off the front end if the WD is not adequate.

We too run a F250 (but gasser) and a 23RB. I never worry about loading since getting the F250, and having the hitch set up properly.

Here is a summary of our Cat Scale numbers: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=25193
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:32 AM   #7
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As others have stated the only way to know the TW is to weigh it. Don't over think it, the engineering of weight and placement of said weight are useless without knowing where the center of gravity is. The manufacturer does not provide this as it's not critical as it is in an airplane. If you search this forum you will ring many posts on how to get the weights, just load the camper for your trip and get your weights. After that initial weight recording you should be ok adding reasonable weight (this excludes rock collecting or finding lost treasure like gold billion. If you find gold let me know and I'll personally drive out and help you ) The more you do this the more you should get the "feel" for where to load additional items.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:09 AM   #8
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Trying to determine if I really need a WDH. Using a 2 1/2" shank which the spec plate states good for 8500 lbs with a max of 850 lbs of TW. My fully loaded TT weighs 5400 lbs but my TW is 850. Was thinking if I could my TW to at least 15% that I would not need a WDH. TT doesn't sway at all, not even in 30 mph winds or passing semis! My TV doesn't even know the TT is back there! If I am thinking wrong please let me know! I have been looking at the Equal - 4 point but if I don't need it why buy it! Help
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:33 AM   #9
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There's some very interesting information about weight distribution hitches, when/how to use them. Doing a "google search" with the question: "Do heavy duty trucks need a weight distribution hitch?" will provide much information about the topic.

Here's just one link that offers a seldom seen perspective: https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/to...-still-needed/
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:44 AM   #10
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According to the 2015 F250 towing guide it is recommended you use a WDH if your trailer weight is at 8500lbs or tounge weight 850lbs is at maximum. From this point it really becomes your personal decision. I tow with an F150 so it is a must for me and I use the Equalizer 4 point system. If I were in your shoes I would probably add the WDH just for piece of mind worry free driving. Again just my opinion.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eokip1 View Post
Trying to determine if I really need a WDH. Using a 2 1/2" shank which the spec plate states good for 8500 lbs with a max of 850 lbs of TW. My fully loaded TT weighs 5400 lbs but my TW is 850. Was thinking if I could my TW to at least 15% that I would not need a WDH. TT doesn't sway at all, not even in 30 mph winds or passing semis! My TV doesn't even know the TT is back there! If I am thinking wrong please let me know! I have been looking at the Equal - 4 point but if I don't need it why buy it! Help
The numbers you state are I assume the MAXIMUM weight rating. Why push it to the max? If your tires are rated at 120 mph max do you drive it that fast? There's lots of good advice and info given but you have to ask yourself what is your families safety worth? What is the liability worth? Also keep one other thing in mind while digesting all this information and reading the various publications, the condition of the trailer and tow vehicle. Your max hitch wt, max tow rantings etc are assuming new conditions on all components involved. Are your steering components in new condition? Ball joints tight? Sway bar bushings? Steering box? Tie rod ends? How about spring tensions? Spring shackles ? Tires match factory specs and aired properly? Hitch mounts, ball on trailer clearance? All these variables can not be accounted for hence the new condition of the stats. Brings me back to the original question, what's it worth. I realize few people have the luxury of unlimited funds but when it comes to safety I think it requires some deep consideration and prioritizations .
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eokip1 View Post
............... TT doesn't sway at all, not even in 30 mph winds or passing semis! My TV doesn't even know the TT is back there! If I am thinking wrong please let me know! I have been looking at the Equal - 4 point but if I don't need it why buy it! Help
I suggest you get the 4 point Equalizer for the sway control. Sway can exist at the least opportune times. Better to have the 4P and never experience sway, than not have it and experience sway that one time. Think of it as cheap insurance after spending all the other money on the TV and TT.



BTW: Not sure about the diesel, but the gasser handles much better with weight put back on the front end, therefore the WD is needed IMO for the gasser.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:31 AM   #13
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I would encourage you to get the WDH/sway control. I use the Equalizer 4 point and would recommend it. I know it seems like a waste and your truck seems to pull your trailer without issues. BUT, I can assure you that your trailer CAN be whipped by the wind and cause your truck to do crazy things. Looks like your from FL and I know from spending months there every year that the winds are nothing like those encountered in other places. If you plan on traveling out of the state (and even if you don't) things could change drastically in a heart beat. When it happens, you very well may not have the luxury of "wishing" you had bought the wdh when it's all over. You cannot put a price on the safety of yourself and others and I personally believe in trying to prevent the bad from happening instead of trying to deal with the aftermath, or gamble that luck is going to be on my side so I won't need any safety equipment.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:17 AM   #14
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Iokip, in answer to your first question, without going into a long dissertation that few would understand (including me) let me give you an example. In our 2013 39 foot Raptor toy hauler if I loaded our Road King with side car (1040 lbs) in the garage it reduced the pin weight 115 lbs. With multiple axles it is NEVER a 1:1 ratio. I recommend a WDH for your situation, but then I'm not spending your money.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:19 PM   #15
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Well I think the responsible thing for me to do is invest in an Equalizer 4 point WDH. I would never want to be responsible for hurting or killing someone else over stupidity! I'm at 860 TW without water or the truck loaded, about 400 lbs in the back of the truck. What pound bars would you guys recommend ? Don't want a stiff ride!
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eokip1 View Post
Well I think the responsible thing for me to do is invest in an Equalizer 4 point WDH. I would never want to be responsible for hurting or killing someone else over stupidity! I'm at 860 TW without water or the truck loaded, about 400 lbs in the back of the truck. What pound bars would you guys recommend ? Don't want a stiff ride!


The Equalizer website has a tool for entering your TW and cargo weight in the bed for determining which bars to get.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:46 PM   #17
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Well I think the responsible thing for me to do is invest in an Equalizer 4 point WDH. I would never want to be responsible for hurting or killing someone else over stupidity! I'm at 860 TW without water or the truck loaded, about 400 lbs in the back of the truck. What pound bars would you guys recommend ? Don't want a stiff ride!

When I was trying to dial mine in I went thru 1k, 1.2 & 1.4k bars trying them out. I actually could not tell much difference. I ended up with the 1200 lb. bars since they are more than my tongue weight and I used the 14k extended shank.
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