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Old 07-06-2017, 08:49 AM   #1
Racebug
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3 air conditioners

My 2017 Fuzion 417 came with 3 air conditioners. You can only run 2 at a time. Further more you must run the middle unit and choose from the front or rear unit to help cool. There are only 2 breakers for the air conditioners. I want to run the front and rear air conditioners OR run all three. My question is how or where are they controlled? I know the thermostat tells what to run and when, but is there a way to run all three? I can 2 of them on a 30 amp hook up, so why am I not able to run all 3 on 50 amp? I understand I am going "on my own" here and keystone did what they did for a reason. Has anyone been able to run 3 ac's at a time?
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:36 PM   #2
ctbruce
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The three unit rigs have a power control/management module built in to them to only allow 2 AC units to operate at a time. There has been discussion about this on the Forum in other posts. The power manager is supposed to rotate between the units to maintain the set temperatures. If you do a search, you will find several threads on this. I don't believe that any of them concluded that there was a way to run all three at the same time.
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:22 AM   #3
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You can add a 20A additional service, run it from the pedestal's 20A outlet, with a breaker dedicated to the 3rd unit. That's what I did with my Outback. It might void your warranty but maybe not if the dealer did the installation. I got tired of resetting breakers and added a second 30A service along with a 20A service strictly to run space heaters in cold weather. I requires some electrical knowledge if you do it yourself, but I'm in the marine business and I deal with shore power all the time.
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:46 AM   #4
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As previously stated these 3 AC rigs have a power management system the run (power up) two ACs at a time, therefore only two breakers. And yes you will be on your own to do that rewiring to enable 3 ACs to be powered. Control circuit modifications will also be required. Worth it ????
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Landry View Post
You can add a 20A additional service, run it from the pedestal's 20A outlet, with a breaker dedicated to the 3rd unit. That's what I did with my Outback. It might void your warranty but maybe not if the dealer did the installation. I got tired of resetting breakers and added a second 30A service along with a 20A service strictly to run space heaters in cold weather. I requires some electrical knowledge if you do it yourself, but I'm in the marine business and I deal with shore power all the time.


I added a third ac (and circuit ) on my Outback too! It rocks being able to run three ac units at the same time!

Everyone calls mine the three-hump camel.

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Old 07-13-2017, 04:43 AM   #6
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I took some stuff apart last night looking into how everything is controlled. It looks like the center unit has its own breaker. The front and rear units share a breaker. There is one romex wire that runs from that breaker up into the ceiling and I am guessing it is spliced at the top of that wall and goes to the front and rear units. They have 120 power all the time. I think the thermostat does all the controlling and load distribution. If I was to add a breaker (there is an empty spot) and tie it into the rear unit where the splice currently is and reconfigured the zone jumpers on the control boxes at each unit, I might be able to make this work. Any thoughts? I obviously understand to only run all 3 when plugged into 50 amp....
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Racebug View Post
I took some stuff apart last night looking into how everything is controlled. It looks like the center unit has its own breaker. The front and rear units share a breaker. There is one romex wire that runs from that breaker up into the ceiling and I am guessing it is spliced at the top of that wall and goes to the front and rear units. They have 120 power all the time. I think the thermostat does all the controlling and load distribution. If I was to add a breaker (there is an empty spot) and tie it into the rear unit where the splice currently is and reconfigured the zone jumpers on the control boxes at each unit, I might be able to make this work. Any thoughts? I obviously understand to only run all 3 when plugged into 50 amp....


For sure. If each a/c unit has its own 120 volt circuit, you can run all three. At that point it is just a matter of fixing/removing the controller that switches between the two. If each one has its own thermostat they can run independently.

I added a third unit in a camper not designed for one. That meant I had to run power to it (in addition to cutting a hole in the roof and framing it). My main unit is connected to the ducts with a thermostat on the walk. The other two are direct dump units with the knob thermostat.

As an additional task I took on was adjusting the thermostat in the direct dump units. They always cycled off too soon... so I figured out how to adjust the thermostat. It is just a screw on the micro-switch. I can get the temp way cold even in 100+ degree temps!


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Old 07-17-2017, 04:33 PM   #8
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Found it. Wired one to the breaker and tied the other into the washer\dryer circuit since I don't plan on having a washer or dryer.

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Old 07-26-2017, 04:41 AM   #9
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update: Best mod I could ever do to the toy hauler!! we were in a state park last weekend and it was 90 degrees and as humid as it could ever be. I was able to run all 3 AC's with the help of a 30+20 to 50 amp adaptor on a 30 amp plug in. never got above 70 degrees inside all day!
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:10 PM   #10
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So did you have to change anything in the thermostat to allow 3 A/C's to turn on at once?
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:32 AM   #11
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no, didn't change anything on the thermostat.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:32 PM   #12
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I know this is a fairly old post but thought I would try - where did you find the control box that has both 120 lines coming into?? Thank you. Dave B
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:06 PM   #13
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On ours it was behind the lowest kitchen drawer, between the fridge and the stove. The main breaker panel is below the fridge right next to the dividing wall b/w the living room and garage. Once I removed the drawer it was accessible.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
The three unit rigs have a power control/management module built in to them to only allow 2 AC units to operate at a time. There has been discussion about this on the Forum in other posts. The power manager is supposed to rotate between the units to maintain the set temperatures. If you do a search, you will find several threads on this. I don't believe that any of them concluded that there was a way to run all three at the same time.
We just took delivery of a new 2018 Raptor 353TS that has 3 AC units and the "new" Omni-Chill feature. However, it still only runs 2 of 3 units at any one time, cycling between the bedroom and garage circuits with the main unit always on. So far, I'm not seeing any difference with the Omni-chill feature.

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Old 05-21-2019, 05:21 AM   #15
Dab6529
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Way old post but we were talking about ac units on FB yesterday. I removed the power management box and added a 20 amp breaker to the panel. Now I can run all three air conditioners at the same time when on 50 amp. It was a blessing at Disney last year in the heat. I just have to make sure I shut one of them down when I run the onan generator.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:18 AM   #16
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I can run all 3 on my built in generator (5500 watt I believe). Just don't start all 3 at the same time.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:47 AM   #17
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This is an old thread, but still a current problem. We thought our 2018 trailer had the new "omni-chill" system - turns out it didn't. So we were faced with the issue of only being able to run 2 of the 3 AC units at any given time. Additionally, it would always run the main cabin + either the garage or bedroom. So when the garage is being used as a bedroom, someone is not getting AC!!!

Thanks to guidance from Racebug and others on this forum, we found an easy fix. Our trailer includes the same Precision Circuits Power Saver Switch referenced by Racebug in his post. In a 2018 Raptor 353TS, this switch was behind the fireplace just below the WFCO power center. The switch is a "dumb" switch - that is it requires NO external controls. If it senses current in the "primary" circuit (in our case the bedroom AC), it will not allow current in the "secondary" circuit (in our case the garage AC). If current is 0 in the primary, then the secondary can get line power. I've included the documentation and wiring diagram for this switch in this post.

Simple fix (for us): Lift off the faceplate of the fireplace and remove 4 screws for fireplace; set fireplace to the side and remove 2 screws for power saver switch cover. I removed the "secondary" wires from this switch and routed the wires into the WFCO power center just above it. I didn't have to cut or lengthen any wires. I hooked the garage AC wire up to share the 20A circuit for the washer/dryer area in the garage. We don't plan to ever install a washer; but if we do, it would mean that we would need to shut off the AC in the garage before we started the washer.

No other modifications were necessary. All 3 AC units now run including running them with the 5500 watt generator - my guess is that you couldn't run much else on the generator when you do this. You might want to shut off the breaker for the converter to delay any battery charging - in our case, the solar system keeps the batteries topped off so there is little demand on the converter. Make sure the fridge is on propane to minimize demand to only that necessary for the DC controls.

Wow - we ran 3 units for about an hour in Tucson when it was nearly 100 degrees and we could immediately tell how much better the AC system performed. This is the best modification I could ever make to an already great trailer.

00-10031-000-Power-Share-Switch-RevA.pdf
Trouble-Shooting-PSS.pdf

Hope this might help someone else - it's worth it IMO.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:25 AM   #18
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Super excited to have found this, again! We bought the 2016 Fuzion with one of the main reasons being that it had 3 AC units.

We were in Needles, CA this weekend in 109° weather. We fiddled with the control unit and strategically place fans throughout the trailer to keep it just under 100° ugh!!!

I have this saved for the husband Weekend project time!!!

Thank you Racebug for sharing your fix to this awful problem.

Lisa
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:44 PM   #19
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Thanks for sharing!

I saw this thread a few days ago and took the time tonight to get it done. So far so good!

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Old 08-09-2019, 06:34 PM   #20
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Done!

I’d also been planning this mod for my 414. I performed it tonight essentially the same way Lewis B did by wiring the Garage AC to share the washer/dryer breaker. The 414 has a poor arrangement in the garage with the sink outside the bathroom so I have no intention of adding a washer/dryer but should I decide to use it, I just have to remember not to run the AC at the same time.

On my unit, the WFCO is near the floor in a cabinet against the wall shared with the basement storage. My power saver device was behind the walling separating the storage from the protected area behind the convenience center and hot water heater. There was plenty of cable length to pull back the garage AC wiring from the secondary circuit on the power saver and push it into the WFCO power center and wire it in.

I’m posting a picture of something I was surprised to find during this project. I know I asked the dealer and Keystone via their contact number if the 2016 Fuzion had roof Solar prep. Answer? No. I guess they ran a cable through the tank vent anyway and left it tied up under the vent cap.
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