Which would you buy Cougar or Montana HC?

[NotyetMHCowner]

The bottom line is to get what you can afford and start living your dream of full timing. There are people that say you cant full time in anything less than a $175K+ New horizons. There are people that say you cant full time in anything less than a $100K DRV. There are people saying you cant full time in anything less than a $80K Montana. The reality is that many people are full timing in $30k Cougars, old camper vans, small Airsteams ( they are $$$). Its just what can you afford to get started. With a more expensive unit, you should have a longer time before having problems and replacing stuff, but you will still do it. As furniture degrades, lights fall out, suspension parts wear, etc. just replace them with better quality parts and keep on a keepin on.

Most full timers will tell you to buy ALL that you can afford, but not to put it off trying to afford it.

[Mikendebbie]

[QUOTE=JRTJH;304610
Essentially, the biggest difference between the Montana and the Montana HC is the "light weight construction techniques" used in the HC. For me (others may disagree completely) that alone would cause me to lean toward the Montana and away from the HC line. Having a Cougar XLite with the laminated floor (luan/Styrofoam/luan) in place of a solid floor with insulation under it is my only experience with the "sandwich floor". Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the performance even though it reduces overall trailer weight.

To add to this already confusing post, consider that the Cougar is a "mid height" trailer with "mostly heavy trailer construction" but weighs about the same as the HC which is "mostly light weight construction". That extra weight is added by "luxury, real wood cabinet stiles and appearance items" while the "weight is removed by using "Styrofoam rather than solid decking" in the floor. So, what you see in the HC "looks like a Montana" but doesn't perform as such......

Whew, I'm glad I'm not the one trying to decide what to buy.... Good Luck.[/QUOTE]

Our 2017 Laredo had an issue that was fixed under warranty, but basically the black tank was not installed correctly to the floor seal in the factory. Stuff sloshed and splashed up and our bathroom floor rotted out around the potty in 10 months. The dealer told me something like this...”since they have gone to sandwich floor for light wt construction we have had nothing but problems that we did not have when floors were plywood or OSB.” It did not make sense to me at the time but with the statement above “Luann-styrofoam-Luann” it makes complete sense how easily the floor in my bathroom was weakened and rotted out.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Uneasyrider

Could you tell me what the many things that you don't like about the lightweight construction are?

The other folks have pretty much covered the issues with light weight construction.. And as others have said even a $500,000 dollar 5'er will have problems.. just not as many

The DW and I have talked about chunking it all and hitting the road but I wouldn't want to trust the Cougar to hold up to heavy use on a daily basis...

Things like the 5200 pound axles but wheels rated for less than the O.E.M. tires it came equipped with...

GVWR of 12,350 and if I fill all the tanks I'd have to unload everything else in the trailer..

Virtually no storage behind the axles which gives lie to the advertised dry pin weight..

Axles moved forward to lighten the pin weight creating a terrible "swing" when turning or backing..

Without a drop frame the basement is uselessly small...

The slides are great except I bump my head every time I sit down in the recliner or at the table.

As discussed the floors are not 5/8" plywood, so there are spots in the floor that we avoid by putting a foot rest or rug over them..

The 12" frame trailers are also 6" wider than the light weight or even the 10" trailers..

I could go on and on but I think you can get the point of all this.. I can use this trailer and enjoy it a few days at a time, but unless forced to by circumstances beyond my ability to control... I would never freely decide to "LIVE" in it..


Bottom line... I compromised what I wanted to accommodate the truck I had and bought a trailer to "FIT" my truck. And then found out that the reality was the pin weight was much heavier than would be indicated by the dry weight.. So much so that I traded in a one year old F250 to get something that would legally carry the trailer that I bought to "FIT" my truck

I'm stupid and "trusted" the numbers, but I can learn... I bought an F350 dually, just so this ain't gonna happen again..

In my case it wasn't the monetary difference of $10K - $15K in pricing between a heavier trailer and this Cougar... really not much difference in the payments anyway.... it was BUT I ALREADY HAVE THIS NICE TRUCK... that bit me in the butt...

Buy what you can afford... and live with the reality

[tmihalic]

All of the talk, but it is still talk. Every rig has a few problems. It's just the way they are built. RV manufacturers haven't caught up to auto/truck manufacturers in the way they do quality. I have a 38' Cougar that is 13'2" tall and weighs 12K. I have had it 4 years. I have no oxidation because I wax it twice a year, which is really easy if you use the right stuff, such as "Wash, Wax All" which is made for jetliners and easy to use. That's right, still no oxidation. The size of the basement is dependent on the model you choose. My domestic refer didn't cool as cold as I thought it should. I bought an electronic control box on ebay for $20 that solved that problems. Lots of friends have added that an no more cold problems. If thy want you can make your refer section a freezer with it. I haven't had problems with my cable slides, but friends with hydraulic ones have. I have 7L pound axles. So as you can see, it the model you buy. In answer to your first question, what to pull it with. A diesel dually. No ifs, ands or butts about it. I prefer the Ram. I have a 2013 that handles that trailer like it isn't even there. Shop around, and buy a workable floor plan, buy it, and maintain it, and wax it twice a year.

[Gurlieee97]

Originally Posted by Javi

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Gurlieee97

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

Because the lightweight trailers like my Cougar (which by the way isn't considered a 1/2 ton trailer) just aren't constructed to hold up to every day use... A weekend here and there with a week long or two once in a while... sure but daily use 365 24/7... nope...

But I guess if you can lighten your load by keeping your wardrobe down to a couple of changes of outfits, buying groceries every couple of days, using the laundromat, paper plates and carrying no more than you have to you could keep it under the GVWR.. maybe..

1760 lbs. don't go far if you start adding water.

Fresh water tank is 500 lbs. by itself.. if the waste tanks are full it's another 950 lbs...

don't leave much room for tools, food, clothes, grills, pots, pans, dishes, DVD's, fishing rods, tackle... etc.

Do... IT...

[rmhaney]

My daughter is on her second Montana. Lots of quality issues included the frame bent out of the factory that Keystone does not want to fix. They have lived in Vermont and other places full-time as my son-in-law works in an industry that requires him to travel. They are pretty much done with Montana and are moving on to Grand design currently under construction. I am happy with my Sprinter 296RLS and F-250 gas burner. Good match but I would not want to full time in it. I am usually in Kansas during December and the furnace with 2 electric heartens keep it warm in the core but if the power drops I am sure we will freeze. That 0degrees to 100 degrees is a little misleading. If I were going to be in KS for more than two weeks at a time I would be thinking Granddesign.

Originally Posted by gearhead

We had a Cougar XLite for a year, then the Montana HC.
I'm now looking at used DRV, etc.
I have no plans to full time in a trailer.
I would look at a used regular Montana before I bought a new HC.
I would look at a new Grand Design Reflection before I looked at a new HC.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Gurlieee97

Why do you say don’t buy a lightweight if you plan on living in it?

Not to beat a dead horse, but here goes

The "regular weight" trailers use either a 7/8", 3/4" or 5/8" solid, Dynaspan floor. The "light weight" trailers use a 1/4" luan/1.5" Styrofoam/1/8" luan sandwich. If you've ever "jumped on a 1/4" sheet of plywood, you know that it isn't going to hold up to the same "walking weight" as a 3/4" sheet of floor decking. That suggests that over a period of a few years (take my Cougar XLite as an example) the floor will become "spongy" as the Styrofoam core breaks down into "little Styrofoam balls".... Then, add lightweight plastic shower walls with a plastic shower base instead of a fiberglass shower stall...

We haven't even begun to discuss the cabinet structure (hardwood stiles vs hardwood cabinets) or axle ratings, frame rail size, outrigger construction, gauge of the aluminum tubing used in the wall structures, spacing of the aluminum tubing (16" centers vs as needed for anticipated engineering loads).

There's a significant difference in "light weight construction" vs "conventional construction....

It's not just in trailers, if you stop and think about what a 2x4 used to measure vs what today's 2x4 really is (3.5x1.5) you'll see that "light weight" isn't as strong as the "regular stuff"....

Again, not trying to but you can only jump on/bend/stress Styrofoam so many times before it breaks down. You get significantly more strength from solid wood/wood component flooring than you do from Styrofoam flooring. It's the same with many other "concepts" in light weight engineering. YMMV

[itat]

Since others have mentioned non-Keystone brands for regular (not ultralight) trailers, I’ll offer some suggestions from Forest River. The Cedar Creek is probably a starting point but the Riverstone or Cardinal would be a step up but demand a bigger tow vehicle.

If I were going to full time, I’d opt for a heavier weight trailer but I can say this. I subscribe to YouTube channel “Love Your RV” and they full time in a Cougar they bought new about 7 years ago although he’s done a ton of mods - some to upgrade a few things and many to personalize it including solar. The point is that it can be done in a lightweight trailer as long as you understand the compromises. Personally, in a lightweight trailer, I think the Forest River Rockwood is constructed better than the Cougar (I’ve researched both for our next trailer) but they both have pluses and minuses and neither is as upscale as the heavier trailers.

[CaptnJohn]

In 2015 e bought a new 2016 Cougar ~ not a lit or 1/2 ton. We had it 13 months with only a few minor problems over 13 months and 13,500 miles. All were taken care of under warranty. At 34' it was a bit tight so the hunt for a Montana began. I would not be comfortable towing a Montana of size with a 1 ton SRW ~ would want a dually. Had one dually and never again. Wanted a big basement, OK for full time, large shower, and king size bed. Needed 7K axels and at least 3K CCC although only will use about 2K. Wheels rated to 110PSI required. Wifey had a list too. We stumbled on a 2017 HC. Met every item on our list. At 43' it is towable with my F350 even with 2 batteries and a separate washer & dryer it remains a little under payload loaded for snowbird. We have pulled over 15K miles and spent 10 1/2 months in it. Only a few cosmetic items taken care of under warranty.

[atrochman]

We have spent almost 4 years of the past 8 living and traveling around the USA (3 times) and have had problems with the lightweight floor. It got very soft so I had a local metal shop make small support beams that I braced the floor with. It also is delaminating by the bathroom so I'm planning to put 3/4 inch plywood over top in bathroom
Still, we love the floor plan and I've made lots of mods so well keep living in this trailer until we have to quit for health reasons. It's a great compromise as its small enough to allow us to fit in most state parks, but big enough to live in for months at a time. It's paid for too which is very important . .

[Mat_the_bike]

We have a 2016 305RL Montana High Country.
My wife and I, plus 3 dogs have spent the last 2 winter seasons in Florida, and have found the coach very comfortable. Plenty of storage space. Everything works well including the layout. KING BED is a real plus and is accessible from all sides although I did replace the OEM mattress with a thicker foam mattress. Air is all ducted so is remarkably quiet.
I have towed it around the county for about 5000 miles pulling it with an 2010 F250 Diesel. Find it easy to tow, easy to park, fuel consumption at a steady 60 to 65 interstate speed is around 10mpg, so the lighter weight gives a good bang for the buck (used to have a Voltage toy hauler which gave about 8mpg).
What lets the Montana HC down is the finish quality.
All the woodwork looks like it has been installed by an untrained apprentice, can see all the brad holes covered by a poorly matching smear of nearly the same color wood filler. Has a couple of minor water leaks from the plumbing, again mainly due to the untrained apprentice not tightening joints properly.

[Uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by Mat_the_bike

We have a 2016 305RL Montana High Country.
My wife and I, plus 3 dogs have spent the last 2 winter seasons in Florida, and have found the coach very comfortable. Plenty of storage space. Everything works well including the layout. KING BED is a real plus and is accessible from all sides although I did replace the OEM mattress with a thicker foam mattress. Air is all ducted so is remarkably quiet.
I have towed it around the county for about 5000 miles pulling it with an 2010 F250 Diesel. Find it easy to tow, easy to park, fuel consumption at a steady 60 to 65 interstate speed is around 10mpg, so the lighter weight gives a good bang for the buck (used to have a Voltage toy hauler which gave about 8mpg).
What lets the Montana HC down is the finish quality.
All the woodwork looks like it has been installed by an untrained apprentice, can see all the brad holes covered by a poorly matching smear of nearly the same color wood filler. Has a couple of minor water leaks from the plumbing, again mainly due to the untrained apprentice not tightening joints properly.

The 305RL is the HC that we looking at. I am comfortable that the drop frame will be ok as well as the weight and floorplan. I still like the Cougar 310RLS but am leaning more towards the HC 305RL that you own. Our plans are to travel North, West or Northwest from Florida early each spring and once we get there to stay a month or so and then move on a few hours away and repeat. Always making our way back to Florida for the winter. Slowly making our way around the country.

[CT Wanderer]

We have the 305RL also. We have had our share of warranty repairs done, too numerous to mention, but still love our unit. We don't see any flexing in the floor as others have mentioned about the sandwich construction. We aren't big people either.
There are only two issues we aren't happy with. For me it's the "fully walkable roof" (as stated in the 2016 brochure). The roof is constructed with 3/8" OSB with stringers too far apart. You have to be very careful walking around on the roof. Our old Jayco had a real solid roof you could dance on.
The DW issue is how the bathroom door opens. I believe starting with the 2017 model they now have the Pivot Door which solves that problem.
Keep silicone away from the glide strip under the kitchen slide and lube with WD40 Specialist PTFE only and you will have no jerking slide problem.
Have put 12-15K mile on the trailer and just installed a new set of tires. The original tires were junk, should have put good tires on before we used it the first time.
We aren't full time but have spent 50% of our time in the trailer in the last two years and it's showing no signs of wear.

[raingurl]

Originally Posted by Dave W

We own a '14 Montana HC. We are very satisfied with what we have. We looked at 5ers from outta sight price wise, regular Montana's, various Forest River products and Cougars, mostly their 327RES. For our dollars we have found that it serves our purpose completely.

Have we had problems, not really anything big, just little niggles. Have a couple component items failed - so far a kitchen water faucet. Have we made upgrades - phew!! For sure, including better tires, heavier suspension, disc brakes and a second a/c.

It is not a 4 season RV though we have managed to put well into the 22-23,000 mile bracket over 4 years and next week begins our late summer travels where we expect another 3-4000 miles to be added.

This 38 footer has the 10" frame and to date, nary a problem. It is NOT, as noted above, a very light 5er at just under 12,000 pounds ready to travel tho with 10 gallons of water regardless of what the brocure info says.

Good bang for your buck and IMHO, a good value. A Cougar - it's not too far behind either and was our 3rd choice

I heard Montana is notorious for its gas leaking. Nothing like this from your experience?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by raingurl

I heard Montana is notorious for its gas leaking. Nothing like this from your experience?

I haven't heard that before and I don't remember ever reading a comment from a forum member about any gas leaks that have been frequent or common. I'd suspect what you heard is "internet rumor" rather than "internet fact"...

From the forum comments, I'd say that the Montana HC is no more prone to "gas leaks" than any other RV that's mass produced and dragged over the nation's "superior" highway system.....

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I haven't heard that before and I don't remember ever reading a comment from a forum member about any gas leaks that have been frequent or common. I'd suspect what you heard is "internet rumor" rather than "internet fact"...



From the forum comments, I'd say that the Montana HC is no more prone to "gas leaks" than any other RV that's mass produced and dragged over the nation's "superior" highway system.....

Was just getting ready to add almost the exact same comment. Just dont recall ever seeing this come up as a topic.

I'll just say DITTO.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

My best friend and I bought a new 5th wheel last June.

I bought a Cougar 315RLS and he got the Montana HC 330RL. His is 1.5 feet longer. Both 2019 model year. Floorplans are very, very similar. He decided on the HC for the larger bathroom, dual sink and all.

My wife and liked the Cougar, it just felt better. It was also newer, built in March 19, his was built in Oct 18.

Little differences in options, but very similar. We have a 2nd awning, he has 2 AC. We have iN-Command which I actually like very much, he does not.

Comes down to personal choice.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I haven't heard that before and I don't remember ever reading a comment from a forum member about any gas leaks that have been frequent or common. I'd suspect what you heard is "internet rumor" rather than "internet fact"...

From the forum comments, I'd say that the Montana HC is no more prone to "gas leaks" than any other RV that's mass produced and dragged over the nation's "superior" highway system.....

I'll say DITTO as well. Not heard anything about "notorious" gas leaks on any of the forums I'm on.

[jsb5717]

We also looked at both the Cougar 315RLS along with the HC 305RL. Liked the floorplan just a little better in the 305RL and for my wife the larger counter in the bathroom was a big deal. I would have liked the 2nd awning but not that big of a deal. I do like the larger storage over the Cougar. In 2018 they removed the window by the stairs in our model. I would have liked that.

Again, pros and cons. So far ours has treated us well and we really enjoy it...no gas leaks either Good luck