Normal Second Guessing I Guess - New TT

[chris199]

It's just my wife and I 95% of the time. Last year we decided to move to a TT rather stay in B&B's and hotels. We went with a small couple's trailer...Passport 199ML at about 22' in length. Easy to tow. Has a bed, bathroom, small sofa and kitchen. What else do we need, right?

So far..so good. LOVE camping. So much better than staying in someone else's house or even worse a hotel.

When our eldest daughter stayed with us one weekend, she felt like she needed to stay out of the way. There wasn't that much room for 3 in the 199ML. When my wife and I are inside at night, we sit next to each other on the sofa with the portable table in front of us. Very awkward....but OK..it's "cozy". Not much room to make breakfast and lunch but we got the routine down.

Well, we then think maybe we should get something larger and for a variety of reasons and after looking at probably 4 manufacturers and who knows how many brands, we arrive at a 35'7" TT...the 32 SAB Cougar. We revisited this choice over and over and always arrive back with the same conclusion.

I can't explain it, but I have this overwhelming sense of intimidation of towing the new unit. (Due to be delivered at the end of May.) I don't know what it is, but there's this sense that we're making a mistake. Probably just the unknown....I don't know. Our TV should be fine....2012 Tundra 5.7L V8. Went with the Hensley hitch. Am trying to do everything to be sure we're safe.

In some sense, we're excited about the extra room - expecially for the time we camp with our kids and other family members from time to time. When it's just us.....just seems like overkill. But will be nice to go inside and sit at the dinette and play games or sit on the sofa and watch a movie. Now we stay outside until we absolutely/positively have to go inside. Just not much room in the 199ML for "living" ...if you know what I mean.

Anyone else go from a small unit to a large one? Glad you did? Any regrets? Any issues?

[f6bits]

I’m just not sure why Keystone says that a 7200 lb. trailer has a 650 lb. tongue weight. It should be at least 800 lbs, and that’s just 11% of the empty weight. Hopefully your Tundra has at least a 1500 pound payload capacity if it’s just the two of you.

Good call on the Hensley hitch. That should help make that monster trailer manageable. You have the long bed Double Cab?

[chris199]

We have the standard bed on a Double Cab.

I added everything up and came up with 1495 lbs of stuff in the truck including us, bikes, cooler, etc. We have 1640 payload capacity overall....so we have some to spare (145 lb). The 1495 assumes a 1000 lb hitch weight.

Someone told me that I could take the hitch weight and divide it by 2 when using a good WDH. I'm OK without doing that but if I did that gives me another 500 lb + the 145 left over from above.

Am trying to be conservative with the numbers.

BTW....re: hitch weight....I know what you mean. Perhaps it's the location of the axles? The 2013, with the new bedroom wardrobe, has a hitch weight of about 750. (Called Keystone a week or so ago to check.) Still seems low.

[flc]

I've been at this camping for almost 60 years and have had all types of tents or campers. Before my dog and I got too old to hunt we would spend winters running around the midwest chasing Pheasant and Quail. An RV salesman once said he remembered me because I was the only guy he knew that bought the smallest tent trailer they had and I pulled it away with a long bed diesel heavy duty 4x4 3/4 ton. (I was also towing a huge Everest fifth wheel with that diesel.) That was a pretty good deal - a bed for me and a bed for the dog, with heat, no less. I still have a superb canvas tent and use it once or twice a year. My RVs have varied from tiny tent campers to big fifth wheels and travel trailers. You get an great sense of comfort in the larger units. However, I am in the process of downsizing to a medium sized travel trailer. It has plenty of room for my wife and I (and her two Westies.) with room left over to handle an occasional overnight visitor. My primary reason for wanting the medium trailer was because I much prefer to camp at Corps campgrounds or National Parks and many of the best sites will not allow anything over 30 feet to fit in. I also do lots of boondocking in the Rockies and this just fits me better. If you prefer to stay at commercial RV parks you should be in fine shape with yours. I enjoyed the big RVs but now prefer a medium sized Camper.

[Halibutman214]

Just my humble opinion but regardless of what it "says" you can tow or who says it, this is too much for the tundra to make it an enjoyable experience. I went with the long slide out on my 26' and have, what seems to me, tons of room.

[chris199]

Originally Posted by Halibutman214

Just my humble opinion but regardless of what it "says" you can tow or who says it, this is too much for the tundra to make it an enjoyable experience. I went with the long slide out on my 26' and have, what seems to me, tons of room.

Why do yo say it is too much for the Tundra to make it enjoyable? It is wlel within weight limits. Hensley shoud negate any sway issues. Not trying to be contentious....just want to understand.

[f6bits]

Having the standard bed makes for an optimal trailer length of about 29 feet. You’re about six feet past that, but the Hensley should really help with that. My feeling is that a good sway control system gives you about an extra five feet.

That “advice” about cutting your hitch weight in half by using WD is BS, to put it politely. WD does *nothing* to reduce payload. All it does is spread the weight across both axles and that’s good for taking weight off the rear axle to save on GAWR.

[Halibutman214]

Originally Posted by chris199

Why do yo say it is too much for the Tundra to make it enjoyable? It is wlel within weight limits. Hensley shoud negate any sway issues. Not trying to be contentious....just want to understand.

Just my experience. I know a Silverado is not a Tundra but even after almost $2000 spent on trying to beef up my suspension that feeling of being out of control never quite left and this was with a Toy Hauler much lighter and smaller than the 8000 or so pounds your talking about. There is just soooo much more than sheer weight that comes in to play on these things regardless of what hitch you may have and the 32 Couger is BIG! I hope it works out super well for you. Maybe they put something in the Tundra's that I don't know about.

[flc]

Originally Posted by sdayman

Having the standard bed makes for an optimal trailer length of about 29 feet.

Mine, at 28'10" seemed perfect for us. Gobs of storage and can sleep 6 (if you have to.)

[Zeb]

Originally Posted by chris199

I can't explain it, but I have this overwhelming sense of intimidation of towing the new unit. (Due to be delivered at the end of May.) I don't know what it is, but there's this sense that we're making a mistake. Probably just the unknown....I don't know. Our TV should be fine....2012 Tundra 5.7L V8. Went with the Hensley hitch. Am trying to do everything to be sure we're safe.

In some sense, we're excited about the extra room - expecially for the time we camp with our kids and other family members from time to time. When it's just us.....just seems like overkill. But will be nice to go inside and sit at the dinette and play games or sit on the sofa and watch a movie. Now we stay outside until we absolutely/positively have to go inside. Just not much room in the 199ML for "living" ...if you know what I mean.

Anyone else go from a small unit to a large one? Glad you did? Any regrets? Any issues?

I think I know exactly how you feel. We had a pop-up for 12 years and now made the move to a 32' TT. Super excited at first but as the day approached to pick-up, I started getting a little nervous. Did I bite off more than i can chew?? I was concerned about the TV. Tow and cargo capacity were ok but my wheelbase was small and hoped a good WDH would avoid me having to get a new TV. Also as someone else mentioned, I too have my favorite spots where I know I will not be able to get into with this rig. When I finally picked up the TT and did about 15 minutes on the highway in gusty windy conditions, all those negative thoughts went away. It rode perfectly! When I got home and started tinkering with the unit, I knew I made the right choice. Now we are looking forward to exploring and discovering new favorite places and the added comfort will make our outings that much more enjoyable. Don't look back. There is a reason why you kept coming back to this model (which, btw is a beauty!!!!).

Cheers

[michol02]

I've had to make a few adjustments,(better shocks, larger WDH, and a couple of good towing side mirrors)but I feel just fine when towing my 32SAB. I added a cheap camera to the rear(hooked up to my daughters old portable DVD player) so I can see if anyone is riding my butt. I don't like driving in Houston traffic when we go that way(but who does). I've tackled a few small hills with no problems(just have to putt up them about 45 mph). Your Tundra has more power and payload than my GMC, and I think you have a better WDH, so, I think you are gonna like towing your mammoth. Just my opinion. The only big issue I had was upgrading to a bigger WDH because I have a lot of junk in the storage area. Smaller one was fine, but i feel safer with a bigger one, and I had to adjust the WDH a couple of times when I added more junk. Hope this eases your mind a little.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by michol02

........ I've tackled a few small hills with no problems(just have to putt up them about 45 mph). ........

This would not ease my mind, hopefully OP's Tundra has a bit more go than your rig, If I can't pull any hill at at least 55 (local 2 lane speed limit)(hill is defined as above a 5.5% grade) something needs to be fixed.
Just my .02 cents!

[chris199]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

This would not ease my mind, hopefully OP's Tundra has a bit more go than your rig, If I can't pull any hill at at least 55 (local 2 lane speed limit)(hill is defined as above a 5.5% grade) something needs to be fixed.
Just my .02 cents!

I'm not sure what Michol02's Sierra specs are but the Tundra is a 5.7L V8, 381 hp at 5600 rpm, 4.3 rear axle ratio, uphill/downhill shift logic, tow package, 9700 tow capacity (new method of calculating.....was 10,400 old calc I believe).

[michol02]

I have a 5.3L, 315 hp @ 5200 rpm, max towing 9700( old cal. Method), wheelbase 143.5, max tongue weight 1100( I'm over a little on that one), rear axle ratio 3.42. I know I'm pushing the limit and probably need a 3/4 ton, but for now, I'll stay off the big hills and keep it under 66 mph.

[handye9]

I think you need to recheck your payload situation.

According to Toyota website, Tundra has 1640 payload (without tow package) and with tow package it only has 1450 payload.

From that 1450 payload, you need to subtract the weight of any bed covering (tonneau cover, bed cap, etc), bed liner or mat, and the Hensley (about 150 lbs) hitch. What's left is useable payload for tongue weight, passengers and cargo.

Keystone says the 32SAB has 745 tongue weight. With full propane tanks and a battery (or two), your tongue weight will be closer to 900 lbs.

Approximately 10 - 15 percent of cargo weight (in the trailer) could add another 160 - 240 lbs to the tongue weight. Loaded up for camping, your tongue weight will probably exceed 1000 lbs.

Subtract tongue weight from useable payload and there is very little, if any, left for passengers and cargo.

[chris199]

Thanks. I will double check. All we put in the truck are my wife and I some bike accessories and 2 bikes in the bed. I think we are within 145 of max. I assumed 1000 lb hitch weight.

[Murphie]

Chris, like you I went from a 19ft trailer to a 30 ft. trailer. The tongue weight is 740 lbs. The dry weight is 5300 lbs. I'm guessing at most I will add about a 1000 lbs. in cargo Also like you I have a 2007 Siverado vortec max 6.0L. Crew cab. It has a 10500 lb. tow capacity.
When I fist started towing the larger trailer I must admit I was a little concerned about how I would feel towing such a large trailer. Those thoughts lasted about four blocks! I saw how much room I needed when going around corners and how much room I needed to stop. The next challenge was parking, and this too was easier than I thought it would be. One thing became evident very quickly, larger trailers tow closer to what you think in your mind the way they would tow. You have more of a sense towing. Keep aware of your tranny temps and you should be fine. Contrary to what a person said above, your not in a race to a checkered flag. Make sure you do a walk around the trailer and TV for a safety check. I learned that from the pros and it's paid off on several occasions.

Richard

[jje1960]

Gotta say.... Spec's vs reality of ability to tow are not on the same plane. 30' worth of trailer with the lite units is nothing to sneeze at.... Spec's say it's good, however when that 18 wheeler blows by at 80mi/hr... hold on friends! Just our experience in past setups, don't push the limits with short wheelbase vehicles that you believe have enough power. If you are on the 'borderline', just think again and make the safe decision... That and enjoy your RV experience!

[rhagfo]

Getting on my !

I know many will put with some instability for a DD that has a shorter wheel base so it is easier to get around in traffic, and easier to park.

I have owned nothing but 3/4 ton PU/TV, long beds long WB. This gives the best stability. Traffic isn't bad, prepares you for the 20' to 40' extra you will be towing soon.

Parking in parking lots, angled No Problem, 90 degree, back in, you learn backing skills, I find it very easy.

Getting off my !

[chris199]

Decided to go with the Cougar 29 REV in place of the 32 SAB. Keystone was having issues making the 2013..cudos to them for not rushing it if it's not ready. The shorter unit should be a better match for my Tundra.

Thanks to all for their input!