Keystone and Fire Safety

[bob91yj]

Look on your other windows for a label/supplier name and try to go through them directly.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Jefster

So if I have to change it myself, where would I go about finding a window that isn't from the dealership? I mean I'm up for it if I can get a hold of one, it's just that it's a brand new trailer, and it's going back to the dealer to fix up a few things that we've noticed in our first 30 days. Stuff like the screen door doesn't close or latch, there's a screw working it's way out of one of the bunks, trim is coming down everywhere, stuff like that.

These guys might be able to help;

http://www.trekwood.com/parts-search...arch-keywords=

At the top you can see I put in the criteria for what I believe is your trailer.

[Jefster]

Well, I just got a phone call from Keystone.
By their explanation here's the scoop:
No curtain = no separate area, it's all one room.
That room has the primary means of escape, so no secondary exit is needed in that room.
Front bedroom has an obstruction to the main entrance because of a door, therefore it needs a secondary exit.

SO, no matter the length of the trailer, no matter the sleeping capacity, no matter if the sofa beds obstructs the path when it is folded out (because it's an accommodation, not a bed), only one door is required by the code, no matter how far away from the sleeping area it is.

I do appreciate that someone called to talk through the code instead of standing by the brushing off I got from them over the weekend, but I did have to file a complaint with BBB in order to get that phone call.

So my unit has been designed to have the fewest fire escapes possible allowed by the code. I still need to follow up with NFPA and make sure that their definitions and allowances are the same as what Keystone is claiming. I've gone this far, I might as well run it all the way down with NFPA at this point

[apachewolf]

Just file a complaint with the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). They will respond real fast.

[Rubicon100]

I would find a RV repair shop and get some estimates for it. It shouldn't cost much if you order a window and have them install it.

[JRTJH]

Let's look at this objectively, not emotionally.

First, the warranty is for one year. At this point, it's already 25%-35% expired. This time next year, there will be no warranty on the trailer.

Second, The warranty for any component "adversely affected by the window" will be subject to interpretation of continued warranty, but the remaining parts of the trailer are still covered and won't be refused repair because of the window.

Third, The dealership can be the best place to get the window and even to have it installed. They are (or should be) on your side and if they do the work, they should stand behind the installation and any issues that might come from shoddy materials or workmanship.

Fourth, If you feel there's a safety issue, just fix it and move on. It'll be cheaper than hiring a lawyer and less stressful than fighting with Keystone, the federal government or the dealership. Sometimes it's easiest, cheapest, less stressful and faster to just "suck it up and move on"....

Your dealership can get the window and install it if you don't have the skills to do it yourself.

[sourdough]

^^^John is right on all counts. Just think about it objectively;

You have a perceived safety issue that you want resolved. You thought they had violated NFPA 1192 by your interpretation. You have to know their legal beagles know the standard inside and out. They construct to meet the wording of the standard. Maybe it doesn't make sense that you have a 37' trailer without an emergency exit window in the bunks, but as has been pointed out, just how is that going to work in reality if something happened and you had kids in panic mode trying to figure out how to open the contraption? They would need mom or dad....from the other end of the trailer. It's all conjecture unless the real thing happens and I, along with you, would want any/all available means to get the kids to safety.

That said, I'm not sure if it is logical to keep trying to bash/badger Keystone for something they have covered. And, as I previously pointed out, you went through the trailer and bought it just as it is constructed. Because you "thought" it should have an emergency exit doesn't make it so.

So we know that it is pretty much a lost cause to keep pushing this button, now, what do you do? Just park the trailer and let this play out for the next year, 2, 5?? Do you use it knowing, adamantly in your mind, that it is a death trap? Or, as I think most would do, just admit that you are wrong about the interpretation (yes, you "think" it should be different but that doesn't make the standard say that) and move forward and replace the window with what suits you and makes you feel more comfortable.

As for me, I "used" to be an agitator but have "reformed". What I found is that getting worked up and accomplishing something made me feel better usually. Getting worked up so I could beat my head against a wall and not accomplish anything just gave me high blood pressure and angina. I think you are in that place. You've filed a report with the BBB although Keystone, IMO, after reading the standard, has followed it. You are pressing with the NHTSA for some sort of intervention......that is 99+% unlikely. I think I said in an earlier post something along the lines of -decisions (to buy that particular trailer) bear consequences and we have to take ownership and be responsible for them.

[Jefster]

I'm typically the last one to raise a fuss about anything. Maybe because it has to do with my kids and where they are sleeping, I don't know. I only made the BBB complaint because keystone totally blew me off and wouldn't answer my challenge to the code. Which led me to believe that they had no answer to the code question. That comainy is what brought today's phone call, which was at least taking me seriously and trying to answer my questions. They had to go get the code book and look it up themselves, so in my mind at the very least it is keeping them honest and putting the issue on front of them.

I do want to talk to NFPA still and get some clarification on on the definitions of "sleeping area" and whether the second exit can be obstructed or not, also if they consider this an extreme use of their standard. It's no longer about getting keystone to do anything, it's about educating myself and maybe advocating for a better solution down the road.

The window is getting replaced, I've already had an appointment at the dealer to look at it.

[flybouy]

I agree with John's comments in post #66. If you look at the floor plan on my unit it's very similar. A curtian seperates the bunk space but mine has an emergency egress window in the rear wall where yours has an entertainment unit. I was a director of construction for many years in the retail and resturant industry. The designers would layout a space, then send it to an architect for code review and renderings. I would have to think that the RV industry would be similar. The major difference being that the NTSB is the governing body, building codes are not applicable. In my humble opinion if you want to ensure your familys safety start with conducting fire drills. The younger the child the more often they should be conducted as thier attention/retention is less than an adult. Have a plan and modify it for each campground, i.e. where is the gathering place in case of fire or tornado? I understand your valid concern for your family but don't stop at the window. Your children may not have your assistantce in an emergency if you are incapacitated. Contact your local Fire Dept. for assistance in forming an emergency plan for your RV and your home. They will gladly help at no charge to you. Bottom line is you can't be too prepared. Take control of the things you can control and don't dwell on things that you cannot control.

[ctbruce]

In an emergency, every window is an emergency window. Some are easier than others to kick out if necessary.

[66joej]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

In an emergency, every window is an emergency window. Some are easier than others to kick out if necessary.

You are right Chip! No time to look for the one with the label on it.

[meaz93*]

As long as you can fit through it ehh?-lol