Unsatisfied

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

“ Weirdly, I expect warranty service at any Keystone dealer”

The RV industry isn’t like the auto industry. RV dealerships are NOT a franchise or “company” store. Each one can decide what brand they sell, only restriction is geographical. RV dealers are NOT required to service a unit they didn’t sell, with the exception of Tiffin as far as I know.

[Theo Wellington]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Welcome to the forum

“ Weirdly, I expect warranty service at any Keystone dealer”

The RV industry isn’t like the auto industry. RV dealerships are NOT a franchise or “company” store. Each one can decide what brand they sell, only restriction is geographical. RV dealers are NOT required to service a unit they didn’t sell, with the exception of Tiffin as far as I know.

...which is not what they say when you buy.
We of course asked specifically about this in our situation.

What Keystone says:
"If you think you have an issue, Keystone RV's authorized independent dealers should be your first call, as they are the exclusive providers of Keystone parts, service and warranty work."

Then follows a list of dealers.
Really, so far the shop is not a particular problem, just working to get parts under warranty in a reasonable amount of time.

[chuckster57]

Independent dealers…. Not owned or operated by Keystone. We have a keystone “authorized” dealer in our area that won’t even service what they sell under warranty.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Theo Wellington

If I buy a Ford truck, I can expect Ford service at any Ford dealership, not just the one I bought from. Most likely I would find enough differences that the service shop I like might not be where I bought the truck.


We wanted a western edition of the Keystone we bought, which meant that no way were we going back to the selling dealership 1500 miles away. Not to mention that dealerships are rebranding, getting bought etc. The place we bought from has a different name inside this year, so does the place we are having it serviced.



Weirdly, I expect warranty service at any Keystone dealer.



The difference is that I've not owned a brand new car that took a month to fix non-functional air conditioning (glacial movement by both Keystone and the repair shop, I finally had to make nice polite reminder calls to both parties every couple of days). And it still needs to go back because the ac isn't being controlled by the thermostat, we have to use the breaker to turn it off and on. (The shop tried installing a new thermostat, the heat works fine, so maybe the third trip to the shop will be the charm, provided there is actual wiring installed.)



So I understand unsatisfied's frustration. I had read enough to understand that the first year would be about fixing stuff, so here we are. Would be nice, though, if there were some pride in workmanship in the business, both at the factory and at the service departments.

Keystone makes RVs. Different companies, individuals etc. own RV dealerships. THEY pick the brands/models they carry; the dealerships are not anything like a company owned/authorized car dealership in any way, shape of form. There is no "company affiliation", company control etc. that some associatate with a car dealership. They carry them if they sell well, don't impinge on another's selling area of the same brand etc. It's apple/oranges, black/white etc.

[RJS3791RD]

For what it’s worth….Having worked 45 years in the automotive service industry and grown up in a family that has always camped and owned RVs, I have seen the sales and after sales side of both businesses, up close and personal. Automotive dealers are not owned by the manufacturer s in the USA. In fact, state laws strictly prohibit it. Dealerships operate under an independent franchise agreement with the manufacturer, that provides the right to sell the vehicles and provide warranty services. The big difference in the automotive industry is that dealers make little to no money on new vehicle sales (COVID being the exception) and make most of their money on after sales and F&I. The RV industry gross profit on sales on new units is significantly greater. PLUS in the automotive manufacturers provide extensive support to assist in the repairs (warranty as well as customer pay). There are quality standards and production lines deviation is nearly non existent. Just the fact that Keystone does not have or offer electrical schematics evidences the lack of support to the dealers. Compound that by the RV manufacturer warranty claims submission process and the reimbursement rates and I can understand why they don’t want to work on anything they didn’t sell. Now some of the RV dealers are their own worse enemy with some of their “sales tactics. But at the same time, the industry is not nearly as friendly to the aftersales side of the business as the automotive (or powersports) industry is to their dealers and customers

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RJS3791RD

For what it’s worth….Having worked 45 years in the automotive service industry and grown up in a family that has always camped and owned RVs, I have seen the sales and after sales side of both businesses, up close and personal. Automotive dealers are not owned by the manufacturer s in the USA. In fact, state laws strictly prohibit it. Dealerships operate under an independent franchise agreement with the manufacturer, that provides the right to sell the vehicles and provide warranty services. The big difference in the automotive industry is that dealers make little to no money on new vehicle sales (COVID being the exception) and make most of their money on after sales and F&I. The RV industry gross profit on sales on new units is significantly greater. PLUS in the automotive manufacturers provide extensive support to assist in the repairs (warranty as well as customer pay). There are quality standards and production lines deviation is nearly non existent. Just the fact that Keystone does not have or offer electrical schematics evidences the lack of support to the dealers. Compound that by the RV manufacturer warranty claims submission process and the reimbursement rates and I can understand why they don’t want to work on anything they didn’t sell. Now some of the RV dealers are their own worse enemy with some of their “sales tactics. But at the same time, the industry is not nearly as friendly to the aftersales side of the business as the automotive (or powersports) industry is to their dealers and customers

You are correct; I used the wrong word (owned) in my previous statement - it should have been left off and only the word authorized used. Although they aren't "owned" by the manufacturer I've seen a dealership fold when the manufacturer cancelled a franchise so they may as well have been owned.

[firestation12]

If I had to wager where the issue is it would be your shore power connection. For every electronic board to fail, this would be the common denominator. As others have suggested, the surge protector you are using is worthless as a guard against the many types of electrical assaults that can be introduced to your camper. Progressive Industry’s EMS seems to be the most recommended one. The only other place you can get a high voltage introduction besides the shore power is 12 volt batteries in series or a faulty voltage converter. It’s too bad the OP has stopped posting. He may not want to share the cause, once found.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

…Most aren't designed to be lived in full time, life expectancies of the components of them is for occasional use over a period of years not constant use which depletes that life expectancy quickly. They are also warranted as a "mobile" unit that can be brought in not a fixed unit that can't be moved. Any services extended to anyone free of charge by a dealership with a mobile service deserves a great big thank you IMO...certainly not something that is paid for with the trailer. JMO/YMMV

Danny, I read your post and I agree, it would have to brought to a dealer. However, I recall that even our Cougar HT had a warranty for full-time, meaning to me that even if I live in it full time the warranties that go along with it would be covered from full-time use until the warranty expires. Am I missing something or am I simply wrong?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

Danny, I read your post and I agree, it would have to brought to a dealer. However, I recall that even our Cougar HT had a warranty for full-time, meaning to me that even if I live in it full time the warranties that go along with it would be covered from full-time use until the warranty expires. Am I missing something or am I simply wrong?

There are some units that are "warranted" for full time living, mine was as well. The way it was explained to me is that if you tell them you are living in a unit full time the warranty can/might be voided. The validation that it is meant for "full timing" would prevent that from happening.

Whether the unit is warranted for full time living or not the components are pretty much the same - they're not heavy duty, top of the line stuff. I guess if you full timed in one if something was going to break/wear out it would just do it quicker.

[chuckster57]

Grand designs said their factory warranty was valid for “extended stay” ( full timers). The reason my son bought one to live in after the Paradise fire.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Grand designs said their factory warranty was valid for “extended stay” ( full timers). The reason my son bought one to live in after the Paradise fire.

Chuck - how does he like it/build quality?

(My step-mother and her brother lived in Paradise when that fire happened. They were lucky, the neighbors were not. He's still there - she hightailed it back to the mid-west.)

[chuckster57]

They still have it. Minor issues covered by GD. It is an imagine BH. They lived in Con Cow.

[GlasNav]

Originally Posted by Unsatisfied

I am connected to shore power. Not at a campground either. 50 amp and yes we have a surge protector. The dealer ship said it is because it sat on the lot all winter unattended. Yes everything is under warranty but is total crap when these go out when is is 10 degrees out side
They won't put a rush order on anything. Takes about 8 to 10 days to get here. And that comes from keystone them selves

You mention a surge protector, do you mean an EMS which manages the electrical power between your 50 AMP Service and the RV, or is this simply a Surge Protector?

There is a HUGE difference between the two, one protects your RV from faulty wiring on the service side and clamps down and won't allow over or under voltage or crossed legs bad neutral etc. A surge protector only address power surges.

I would recommend getting an electrician or if you are qualified to verify the service supply and how the plug receptacle has been wired.

Remember, although there should be two 120 V legs, a neutral and a ground, the RV doesn't operate on 220 - 240, it splits the service into two 110 - 120 circuits. As someone else mentioned qualify the service first, then work on into the rig, its odd the amount of failures you have experienced.

[LadyCPA]

Originally Posted by Unsatisfied

We bought a keystone avalanche in July. Brand new from Bish's RV in Kalispell. It has been nothing but total disappointment. Every mother board has gone out in this thing. Now the power converter has gone out. We live in this RV fulltime. Try and talk to anyone from keystone is such a joke. Yes it is under warranty but they send the parts at there convenience. I would never recommend anyone buying a keystone product.

I am so sorry you are having issues. We have a Raptor, and it has had some issues. And our dealership was not great. But to be honest, Keystone has been nothing but really great and helpful. They have always responded with assistance no matter if we called, sent emails, or did the online chat.
They offered to pay for a mobile technician instead of returning to the dealership since there wasn't a dealership within 90 miles. I know that Lippert, which manufactures several components will also pay repairs to a mobile technician.
It is frustrating when it is your full time residence, This is why we have spent a year doing short local trips to get the kinks worked out before it is a full time home. But i bet we will still have problems as we go along.
Good luck

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by LadyCPA

I am so sorry you are having issues. We have a Raptor, and it has had some issues. And our dealership was not great. But to be honest, Keystone has been nothing but really great and helpful. They have always responded with assistance no matter if we called, sent emails, or did the online chat.
They offered to pay for a mobile technician instead of returning to the dealership since there wasn't a dealership within 90 miles. I know that Lippert, which manufactures several components will also pay repairs to a mobile technician.
It is frustrating when it is your full time residence, This is why we have spent a year doing short local trips to get the kinks worked out before it is a full time home. But i bet we will still have problems as we go along.
Good luck

This is an example of what patience and politeness can accomplish! Nicely done Ma’am.

[Greasyrick]

Sorry you are having this issues, what I can state based on my 20 years of rv ownership is that your issue sure sounds like a power surge, the only time we had an issue like that was with a refrigerator control board due to a bad shore power outlet, this happened during my first year of camping back in 2003, since that time, we bought a 50 amp Hughes Autoformer, (big heavy grey box with a handle), and never had an issue after that, I also check the campsite’s shore power for burned outlets plus once I turn the breaker on, I stay there looking for smoke and listening for arching or any abnormal conditions, don’t be afraid to ask them to replace the outlet, they do that all the time, I’ve done it twice, once in Texas and another in Florida.

I hope you get back on the road asap.

[eadgbe]

The only thing that hasn’t quit working YET in my less than a year old 2022 KEYSTONE COUGAR that I purchased from Centerline RV in Lethbridge is the air conditioner. Water was literally pouring onto my bed, not dripping in the front window. In Yuma, Arizona almost 80 degrees the REFRIGERATOR quit working fortunately a nice repairman came out right away at my expense. The control panel quit working, one of the wheel fender.This goes on and on, I was in Mexico and had to hook up 4 times and drive thru the Tijuana border (which can be a long wait) to go to a licensed rv repair dealer in San Diego to get these issues repaired. I am so disappointed with this travel trailer manufacturer, they are all about the money not their consumers!!
FYI: I am a 74 year old woman, I have owned an rv for the better part of my life.
It has depreciated so much that I’m just going keep it and keep my fingers crossed.
Granted these things were fixed after a lot of travel time and expenses but I will always be worried that water got in the walls and eventually getting mold and/or delamination!!
When travelling, people always ask how I like my Cougar, I guess I’ll just ask them how much time have their got?

[German Shepherd Guy]

OP has disappeared. Not sure he really wanted anything other than a sounding board to b***c to. I too believe his power source was his problem, and it sounded like he only had a surge protector in line. Would have been interesting to hear what the results were but I think we will never know.

[eadgbe]

I have always had a surge protector

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Cougar2023

I have always had a surge protector

Surge protector or EMS? A surge protector does next to nothing for an RV while an EMS protects from several anomalies that can harm an RV greatly.