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Old 02-18-2017, 04:07 PM   #1
TomD1
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Cougar and an F250

Hi all, just wondering if anyone out there tows a Cougar with an F-250. I have ordered an F-250 gasser and am looking an a Cougar 336 BHS the GVWR is 12,235 and the pin weight of 1835. everything appears to be within limits, I know it depends how it is loaded, but I am not new to weight and balance.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:15 PM   #2
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I towed my cougar 333 MKS with a 2012 F-250 diesel one trip and then went and bought a new dually. The 333 was just too much weight for the F-250, much more pleasant with the dually.

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Old 02-18-2017, 05:51 PM   #3
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A lot depends on your F250 model. If you're looking at a single cab, 8' bed XL model, it will have about double the payload of a crew cab, 8' bed Platinum model. Those options really REALLY add up in weight causing significant payload reductions.

So, you have to make a decision on whether you want to be "legal" or make the argument of "it's really the same as an F350."

Depending on the rear end you get (3.73 or 4.30) you may or may not be over your GCWR. If you consider that your F250 will be "at GVW" with the trailer, then your GCWR of 19500 minus the truck's 10000, leaves you with a maximum trailer weight of 9500, not nearly enough to tow a trailer with a GVW of 12,235. With the 4.30 gearing, the GCWR increases to 28,700 and eliminates the problem of "too much trailer to tow" but does not address the pin weight which is going to be over the truck's payload, no matter how you cut it....

As I said, the dilemma boils down to whether you want to be 'legal" or make the argument of "it's really the same as....." Up to you which way you go.

As an example, I tow with a 2015 F250 Lariat and have a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS. GVW of 10,000 pounds and a empty pin weight of 1230. I'm at my truck's GVW when we tow. The trailer you're considering would put my truck significantly over the payload, possibly even over the payload of an F350.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:48 PM   #4
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I agree with JRTJH, if you want to stay with in your GVWR.
First get your F250 weighed ready to tow, with full fuel and family, then we can tell you if you will be good.
I will I pull a 5er as big as what you are looking at with our 2001 Ram, I exceed the anemic 8,800# GVWR. That said I am still well within the rear GAWR, and FAR within the Optional tire weight rating.

Doing this is your choice, it just works well for me.

It is not a big 5er just over 12,000# GVWR.

Specs for 336BHS
Shipping Weight 10,325
Carrying Capacity 1,910
GVWR 12,235
Hitch 1835
Length 38' 0"
Height 12' 6"

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Old 02-19-2017, 04:38 AM   #5
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I bought a 327RES last year. I had a 2014 250 Lariat, SuperCrew, 6.5 bed, gasser. Towing it home, I thought it was fine. No issues stopping, starting, etc. On our first trip with it packed up and just my wife and I (the kids stayed home), I noticed a difference. It was definitely WORKING to start off on any sort of incline, it wasn't horrible, but I could tell the truck was working hard to get moving. I should mention that we don't pack heavy. Just the basics, clothes, food, pots, pans, etc. No water. Stopping was not an issue, the truck has good brakes and you have trailer brakes too.

I decided to upgrade to a 350 diesel because I was worried about putting too much stress on the truck. I can tell you that it made a huge difference. It's like the trailer isn't even there. The engine brake is also a nice feature to help save brakes. It nice to not worry about "am I putting too much stress on the truck?", "is the engine going to blow?", etc. Plus with the added weight capability I don't have to worry about what I pack to stay within my limits.
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Old 02-19-2017, 06:39 AM   #6
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I think a visit to your Ford dealer is in order. The price difference between a F250 and a F350 isn't worth not getting a 350. They should have no issue with you placing a new order. They can sell the 250 when it gets to them.
My ex-F350 diesel pulled my ex-Cougar XLite very well. Much better than my ex GMC2500 6.0 gasser. Screaming uphill floorboarded and riding the brakes downhill got old very quick. The diesel with an exhaust brake is so sweet.
If after doing the math you think you may be pushing the payload capacity you should consider a dually. The F350 SRW has a relatively low payload from my experience. If you don't want a Ford dually, the Ram in my signature has 4018# payload capacity.
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Old 02-19-2017, 03:12 PM   #7
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I purchased a 336BHS last March. My Ram 3500 SRW (see more in my sig) handles it with ease. The payload for my truck is 3950. The truck and camper seem to be a very nice pair when it comes to weight vs. capacity. I agree with the above posts... I would see if you could switch your order to a 350. The cost difference is negligible. Good luck!
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Old 02-19-2017, 03:50 PM   #8
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I pulled my Cougar 303 RLS with an F250 diesel. The published pin is 1605. Not a problem for thousands of miles. The concern was the loaded pin was around 2220 which with the wife and I in the truck put us over payload. Traded for a 2016 F350 SRW Lariat Ultimate 4x4 6.7. Payload approaches 3500# which gives some cushion for the upgrade. To my wife traveling light means only 3 cast iron pots/pans.
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Old 02-19-2017, 04:09 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:12 PM   #10
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Tom, even without all the weight police coming on heavy.....you have to.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TomD1 View Post
Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.
Just curious why not? Have you driven one? There's very little difference in ride and you pick up 1500lbs of payload. You haven't mentioned the rear axle. With a gasser you're definitely gonna want the 4.30. I believe you'll be sorry if you don't. I have a Cougar 337FLS and IMHO it's 1 ton territory, gas or diesel.

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Old 02-19-2017, 05:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by larry337 View Post
Just curious why not? Have you driven one? There's very little difference in ride and you pick up 1500lbs of payload. You haven't mentioned the rear axle. With a gasser you're definitely gonna want the 4.30. I believe you'll be sorry if you don't. I have a Cougar 337FLS and IMHO it's 1 ton territory, gas or diesel.

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Yes I am getting the 4.30.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:56 PM   #13
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If you're ordering a 2017 F250 with a 6.2l gas engine, you're getting the "light duty transmission" as well. The original "strong" transmission is only available in the F250 with diesel engine. It is standard on all F350 gas and diesel models. That, to me, indicates that the "light duty transmission" apparently isn't strong enough to do the work of the increased torque of the diesel or in the gas F350 loads. Now, since the F250 and F350 are essentially the same truck, that tells me that the transmission in the F250 gas truck isn't as strong as the transmission in the F350, even though they are "supposedly rated to tow the same loads.... Sounds like "almost doublespeak" from Ford on that one ....
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:02 PM   #14
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I may be wrong here but, just going by what I read on this forum after a few years. This story ends a year or two from now. With a purchase of a f350. And someone gets a good deal on a slightly used f250.
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:14 PM   #15
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I may be wrong here but, just going by what I read on this forum after a few years. This story ends a year or two from now. With a purchase of a f350. And someone gets a good deal on a slightly used f250.
I reckon the only way to learn it... is to live it. [emoji6]

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Old 02-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TomD1 View Post
Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.


If you are buying new diffidently go with the F350, a SRW will be more than enough for that 5er.

Now the hard part, if you are afraid of/or just don't want a diesel I would strongly suggest 4.10 or 4.30 gears behind the 6.2 for a more enjoyable tow experience. If you chose the 3.73 you will likely be facing a 12,000# to 13,000# towing capacity.

If you don't dislike or fear a diesel I would strongly suggest, as they make for a more relaxing towing experience. Think about this I tow/carry a 5er slightly shorter, but heaver than what you are looking at, I do it with a 16 year old diesel with 298,000 miles that is likely putting out about 270 hp and 610# of torque. I move that load with ease and have 3.55 rear gears.

This is a big purchase the cost difference between a F250 and a F350 SRW is very small in the big picture.
Many with say the F250 and F350 SRW are the same, with maybe the F250 MAYBE having softer springs. That said the one thing you really get is a VIN and Payload sticker that states that your TV is good for another 1,500# or more.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:41 PM   #17
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I tried to not respond to this thread, but......

An RV in excess of 12k needs to be pulled by a diesel...and I don't own one. It's just common sense.

To buy a new 250 gasser to pull a 12, 3xx lb trailer is crazy to me. My truck is just as powerful as the new 250 being ordered. I pull 10k and would NEVER want more behind her. Get what you need up front! Get the 350 and move on!!
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:03 AM   #18
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The motor will be okay. It's only 12 grand. I'll bet it pulls similar to your 10 grand. The F350 is rated for 16 and change with a 6.2 and 4.30. I know a farmer with one who goes way past that with a goose neck loaded with hay bales or equipment. Me personally, no. I would think most guys wouldn't enjoy it. You'd have to lock out higher gears at times. Lot more revs, more shifting. But some people wouldn't care to save 8 grand up front. I'm not one of them. Can't say I haven't thought about it though. These modern diesels are incredible motors but when they break they produce incredible repair bills too. It's kinda scary to own one after the warranty runs out. Sort of a game of hot potato. Matter of fact mines never given me a problem but it's 6 years with 93,000 and I just ordered a new 17. But that's me. Your mileage may vary.

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Old 02-20-2017, 06:12 AM   #19
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Yeah, I don't understand the not wanting a F350. We're talking F350 Single Rear Wheel vs. F250. Won't be able to tell the difference without the badge on the fender. We're talking oranges vs. tangerines, not apples and oranges.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:17 AM   #20
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.... We're talking oranges vs. tangerines, not apples and oranges.
Probably closer to tangelos vs tangerines or seeded vs seedless oranges ???

Just don't forget that Ford "slipped in" that "downgraded transmission" in the 2017 F250 gas truck.....
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