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Old 03-23-2013, 09:41 PM   #1
NMRVer
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Electric Heat vs Gas

I was wondering if anyone has tried this and if it's worth the investment. I go thru LP rapidly and taught this might be a good alternative.

Comments Please.
http://www.rvcomfortsystems.com/
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:36 AM   #2
dave-g
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looks interesting-but keep in mind that it is at max 5000 watts- that is 17,000 btus. Most has heaters are 30,000 btus.

my 325srx on a 20 degree night just hold 68-70 with a 30,000 btu gas heater-

now in mild weather it would be great.

Also do not try to run it on your generator. You will max out most.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:41 AM   #3
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With a Bing search, I found two threads from other RV forums right away (only looked a the first page of results):

http://www.heartlandowners.org/showt...omfort-Systems

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...ace-74489.html

When I got to the part about the system costing about $1,500 installed and installation must be done by a certified rv shop (whatever that is), I almost stopped reading. Then I read on a bit and one guy does some serious calculations on cost comparisons of using your existing LP furnace vs. installing and using the CheapHeat. Great info and not particularly in favor of the CheapHeat.

It also uses up a good portion of your trailer's amperage limits. That may not be a huge consideration if you have full 50 amp 110/220vac service. But if you're in a park with 30 amp 110vac only or your rig is only 30 amp or you are only using the 30 amp cable, you loose a touch over half of your limit to the CheapHeat. Here is the consumption chart from CheapHeat's web site:

DH50: 21 amps per leg on 50-amp service (about the same as 2 roof AC)
DH50: Leaves 29 amps per leg to run the coach (58 amps at 120 VAC to run the coach)

DH37: 16 amps per leg on 50-amp service (about the same as 2 roof AC)
DH37: Leaves 34 amps per leg to run the coach (68 amps at 120 VAC to run the coach)

DH18: 16 amps per leg on 30-amp service (about the same as 1 roof AC)
DH18: Leaves 14 amps to run the coach (14 amps at 120 VAC to run the coach)

The CheapHeat has to run a lot longer than an LP furnace to maintain the same temps. That's not a big deal if you are in a park that doesn't meter or charge extra for electric consumption. It matters big time if you're on a metered hookup.

Running the generator to power the CheapHeat makes no sense. You would still be consuming a fossil fuel, probably at the same or a greater rate as just using the LP furnace. And, you'd need to run the genny continuously to operate the unit throughout the day and night just to maintain a consistent temp inside the trailer. That's a lot of hours of wear on the generator. Most portable generators (including the on boards) really are not designed for long term 24/7 operation. Except for unusual circumstances, I certainly would not run a 3,000 or 1,500 watt portable Honda or Yamaha or any other brand continuously for days on end, week after week as a regular thing.

And let us not forget that many no hookup CG's have limited hours which you can even use the generator. I will also point out that 24/7 operation of one of the noisier generators is probably not going to be acceptable for very long in most close quarters situations.

It's possible that you could buy one and DIY install it. I did not find the CheapHeat listed on an online sales web site but one guy in the Airstream or Heartland forum quoted a purchase price of around $800 which sounds about right. That is still a whole bunch of LP refills and you still have all the conditions I already listed.

Many folks in both the Heartland and Airstream forums also pointed out that you could heat or supplement the LP heat in your trailer far more economically with one or two well placed cube heaters for around $40 each or so. It probably would not be that much of a savings on electric consumption compared to the CheapHeat, but the initial cost difference between the cube heaters and the CheapHeat is obvious.

I am having difficulty envisioning a scenario where the product would be advantageous and economical given the high cost to purchase and install it.

Well, read over the two threads I linked above and see what you think.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:49 AM   #4
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Interesting concept.

Regarding the difference in BTUs... Gas furnaces are at BEST 85% efficient (since a large portion of the 30,000 BTUs generated go out the exhaust)... I'm betting the RV furnaces are closer to the 60% efficient stated on the cheap heat website.

Splitting the difference, say 70% efficient... That would mean that only 21,000 BTU (of the 30K) make in into the RV. That's pretty compatible with the BTU they claim with their heating element.

Electric heat is always 100% efficient - meaning, all the heat generated by the heating element makes it into the ductwork.

Before we had the Avalanche, we always used 2 ceramic heaters and then set the gas furnace at like 55 degrees. One 50 amp service, we could run both on high. On 30 amp service we could run one on high the other on low. About the only time the furnace would kick on was if it was very cold/windy..... or late at night.

Having the electric heat "built in" and not have to unpack portable heaters or have them on the floor someplace would be nice.. But the Avalanche has an electric fireplace.... ~Maybe~ pull out one portable heater if need be (keeping furnace set low again).

If I was fulltiming, I would definitely consider the 50 amp version. This one would not however, work if you only have 30 amp service.

As it stands, I get by.

Thats my 02 cents worth of rambling.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:29 AM   #5
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It seems that it may be beneficial for some people and not so much for others. As stated, much of the heat produced in the conventional furnace is wasted when it goes out the exhaust port. Small electric heaters don't provide any heat to the basement area, so extremely cold weather would need some heat from the furnace to provide warmth there. I guess there are advantages to the all electric system, but I don't think there would be any cost advantage. Electricity is almost the same cost as propane (especially when bought in 100 lb tanks or bulk storage) so at best, I think cost would be a wash.

One thing that nobody has discussed yet is the "fan noise" from the RV furnace. Most are loud enough to interfere with watching TV or relaxing with a good book and a glass of wine. So, using small electric heaters is significantly quieter than running the furnace, whether it's being heated by propane or electricity. For nearly a thousand dollars for the conversion, to me, a cube heater and running the furnace on propane seems a "thrifty" solution over modifying the furnace to run on electricity and having to listen to that fan all day long.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
One thing that nobody has discussed yet is the "fan noise" from the RV furnace. Most are loud enough to interfere with watching TV or relaxing with a good book and a glass of wine. So, using small electric heaters is significantly quieter than running the furnace, whether it's being heated by propane or electricity.
In one of the threads where we talked about repairing or improving the ducting system on these RV furnaces, I mentioned adding a 110vac duct fan to boost air circulation. It might be possible and even practical to use one to replace the need to run the 12vdc furnace fan when operating on the CheapHeat system. Duct fans are very quiet compared to the average RV furnace. But it further ups the cost of the purchase and installation and in turn, widens the payback gap even further.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:17 PM   #7
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Thanks, I wasn't sure if I should do this or not, we don't dry camp and seldom even go to state parks, but mainly RV resorts. I'm almost also using 50 amp service, but didn't thin about metering.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SteveC7010 View Post
In one of the threads where we talked about repairing or improving the ducting system on these RV furnaces, I mentioned adding a 110vac duct fan to boost air circulation. It might be possible and even practical to use one to replace the need to run the 12vdc furnace fan when operating on the CheapHeat system. Duct fans are very quiet compared to the average RV furnace. But it further ups the cost of the purchase and installation and in turn, widens the payback gap even further.

Read the post, great information. I don't have a lot of noise from my ducts and seems to have good airflow in all of them. So should I worry about restrictions or I'm I OK as is? Thanks for the reply and the link.
Scott
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:16 AM   #9
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Were going to start metering our campground by next fall. We have some people come in and run 3-4 heaters and extension cords everywhere. Had to put a stop to it. We have base electric bill of $750 a month so however much we use it's that
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:41 AM   #10
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one last thing to remember- most rv- (my 325srx included) have a heat duct in the basement/ underbelly- so in the really cold weather running the furnace heats this area.

To me this would be one of the advantages of the ducted system over the cube heaters.

Having said that- I'm still not a fan of the ducted electric heat. I do not think it would pay for it self- with normal rv use. If you are a full timer it may until the campground owner finds out and starts billing for the electric.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:01 AM   #11
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I prefer to just supplement the furnace with a space heater located away from the thermostat. It will cut the use of the propane without the conversion cost or the lack of basement heat. I did this at home and probably saved $300 of oil at a cost of $150 of electricity. I am hoping to install an electric fireplace in my fiver this spring.
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